APPRENTICE CHALLENGE 7

[Nesi427]

I don't know if outside of the contest members are permitted to comment on this contest, but I have one comment to make regarding the World Series package assembled by Optimus.

You clearly used an older Stl Cardinals logo in you design, BUT you used the CURRENT Yankees bp cap logo in their version of the shirt. I don't know if this is too picky, but I have been following this contest and I would consider this a hiccup. Just my 2 cents...

[Cola]

You clearly used an older Stl Cardinals logo in you design, BUT you used the CURRENT Yankees bp cap logo in their version of the shirt. I don't know if this is too picky, but I have been following this contest and I would consider this a hiccup. Just my 2 cents...

No, I didn't. In fact, I used the New York Yankees logo that appears on THIS site in reference to the years 1913-1935. The only thing extra I did was add a stroke to make it stand out.

[Cola]

*crickets*

[chestnutz]

Okay so according to the new rules we won, so what happens now?

[gingerbreadmann]

Okay so according to the new rules we won, so what happens now?

If you won from one vote, I call bull .

Plus you had 4 known active members, we had 2. I know nothing can be done about that, but still. I hate to say it but this contest has been close to awful (not saying I want to quit or for it to end, just that something really changed) since the Beijing challenge.

[maz]

No offense, but you guys had an advantage in active members for most of the series. Its only until recently you guys have been at a disadvantage, and thats only because bruschi came to our side, which was only because, originally, we had the problem with the lack of people. And, also, because of it just not being a good time of the year for something like this.

So, in a way, we both were messed up by the way this was run, which wasnt the best. This contest has gone on a long time, and, i understand, is supposed to run even longer. I think, that if a contest like this was ever repeated, there would have to be:

1. More people overseeing it.

2. Much stricter timetables.

3. Challenges made up maybe 2 challenges in advance.

2B/3B. Have everything planned out before the contest is started, and follow it to the t.

4. More judge participation. The judging up until the Beijing challenge, and for that challenge, was awesome.

5. Perhaps select "Auxilliary Judges" to replace inactive ones.

6. Lower the initial teammate count by maybe two people.

7. Put in better rules for teammate-moving.

8. Most of all, this would probably have to start the second week of June, or the earliest time possible without interfering with the majority of school finals, so there is ample summer time.

9. Or, make it shorter. Alot shorter. Maybe a couple months, but more than half a year. I, personally, would like to see more contests done around here, and I think this one is taking too much time.

All in all, it would either need scaled up to a huge CCSLC-wide event, or scaled down to a more minor contest.

[gingerbreadmann]

No offense, but you guys had an advantage in active members for most of the series. Its only until recently you guys have been at a disadvantage, and thats only because bruschi came to our side, which was only because, originally, we had the problem with the lack of people.

So, in a way, we both were messed up by the way this was run, which wasnt the best.

Also, it seems there has been a real lack of judging lately. Up until and during the Beijing challenge, the judging after the rounds was awesome.

Hardly, but even if we did the difference between a 6-4 or 6-5 advantage in active members and a 4-2 advantage is very large. The last 3 we have had no more than 2 members active at any one time. And when you were definitely down by 2, it was made even. It wasn't for us. Believe me, the last thing I'm doing is making excuses, because I really want to hear more judging opinions like you said because I think both teams did great considering the circumstances, but what I just said stands true. I think Matt has to do something, he himself hasn't even been around the last 2 challenges.

And seriously. William, SG30, what the hell happened? (especially SG30. She was on this site 15 minutes ago, yet hasn't posted in what, over a month and a half?)

[Cola]

5 against 7 is a bit different than 4 against 2...yeah, the difference in people are the same but chance in the contribution just isn't.

the sad part is that, STILL, no judge or challenge operator has responded since Wednesday afternoon around 5pm EST. It is Friday at 10pm EST now.

[ShinyHubCaps]

Maybe they forget to look under the stickied topics?

Now, even though I've been eliminated, I've still been following this quite regularly. I'd say that Optimus did lose this challenge (I'm not a judge, but if I were, I would have given a slight nod to Prodigy... it wasn't perfect for the time, but it had less negative space, and the event and champion logos were more similar to each other than Optimus's), and as a result, one member would leave. It's obviously not ColaCock, so it would be either GBM or williamrhys, and the next judge who reads this can just pick one, in the interest of moving along (keeping in mind that GBM has been present, at least).

Pollux has the next challenge, so he will post that when Challenge 7 is said and done.

What I prescribe from here on out:

Challenge 7: The next judge selects one member of Optimus; field is brought down to 7.

Challenge 8: Individual challenges for the remaining contestants; 2 eliminated. Field is down to 5, unless more than 2 people do not make submissions, in which case, anyone to not submit is eliminated.

Challenge 9: Individual challenges; 2 eliminated. Field is down to 3.

Challenge 10: Final challenge; one winner selected. Open for public vote, NOT judges.

Ponder that, and let's keep this moving. It's 3 more challenges, yes, but if you don't have the resources to complete a concept, then you're eliminated. This goes under stricter timetables.

[pcgd]

Maybe judge participation is following contestant participation?

I'd post a vote but its pointless when you guys only posted 3 or 5 different options between the two teams...and you had 2 whole weekends. I don't see the point in casting a vote and caring if you guys don't seem to care.

[maz]

With all due respect, we did what we can, which was more than what you claim. I alone posted more than the "3 or 5 different options between the two teams". Yeah, it was onyl two scanned images, but there was at least 4 ideas on one of them. That, and chestnutz couldnt make his ideas due to computer troubles. I cant speak for dp and bruschi, other than dp has been busy lately.

The thing is that this is not summer. The younger contestants like myself have school, and the older ones are left with too much to make up for.

Also, sholdnt the judges set an example? Arent the judges supposed to be the ones with the experience and veteranship, and helping the young contestants through, not only C&C on their entries, but by showing they themselves can show up for things?

Im sorry, but its one thing for the contestants not to participate due to other priorities, but for the judges to not participate using lack of contestant participation as an excuse is bull to me. If anything, a judge who gives a reason like that to not vote is the one who doesnt care. Whether we make a crappy entry on one proposal, or a masterpiece after a huge brainstorm, lack of judge participation does not help us.

Internet message board contests are kept alive by people who care about them. If we did not care, this contest would not have lasted the months it already has.

[gingerbreadmann]

With all due respect, we did what we can, which was more than what you claim. I alone posted more than the "3 or 5 different options between the two teams". Yeah, it was onyl two scanned images, but there was at least 4 ideas on one of them. That, and chestnutz couldnt make his ideas due to computer troubles. I cant speak for dp and bruschi, other than dp has been busy lately.

The thing is that this is not summer. The younger contestants like myself have school, and the older ones are left with too much to make up for.

Also, sholdnt the judges set an example?

Im sorry, but its one thing for the contestants not to participate due to other priorities, but for the judges to not participate using lack of contestant participation as an excuse is bull to me. If anything, a judge who gives a reason like that to not vote is the one who doesnt care.

^I have to agree with this. Is one side really supposed to be "setting examples" for the other? Really, you choose not to vote "because only between 3-5 options were tossed around on each side?" Look I'm sorry that some of the contestants disappeared suddenly, there's nothing I can do about that. God forbid, some of the active members have some form of school or work that is actually more important than this, and one of the other team's members' computer died. Cola had a death in the family! He did a great job to even design anything considering that tragedy, and now he doesn't care?! I'm sure I speak for both teams, we put out there what we could. And additionally, this isn't your fault, but maybe if Shiny wasn't kicked off then there would have been more participation on our side.

Let's look at this the other way, you took the time to set up this challenge, which I thank you for, but each team did the best they could given bad circumstances, and you, the person who wanted this challenge, doesn't even care to vote for the winner. Why should we care then? I'm not saying we won't, because we will, but what you said is pretty lame to me. I hope the other judges don't feel the same way.

[-(dp)-]

Agreed. While maybe participation throughout the entire round wasn't as much as it should have been, we still met our deadlines. And a quick vote takes much less effort than what we have had to do. I put out a few ideas, including what we went with, and I have been working, as well as getting ready to move and start school. The judges who did comment, felt that both teams put out a pretty logo and shirt design package, so how does the amount of posts really even matter? In the end, both teams did what was required, and submitted them a little bit before the deadline, while many of the judges couldn't meet a deadline when much less was asked of them.

[pcgd]

I'm glad some people had a problem with what I said. You should have.

Well maybe I was harsh but this is crunch time in the competition. Maybe I'm treating this too much like the real apprentice where the judges call you out when you aren't very good.

Sorry...Both teams were awesome!!!

I have a full time job too, one that I was working 60 hour weeks when I posted the contest. It took me time to put that together. I checked in on your progress every day. I was so excited about this because after seeing everything come out of this I wanted to see you guys step outside the box a bit. But in the end...one completed logo was presented early in the contest, and then that same logo was used for the final. I gave you guys more than 2 weeks to come up with something and we got two logos that were created total.

Honestly, do you think either team put forth its best effort?

Here.. I vote for Prodigy. But if I was a client...I'd be going somewhere else.

Prodigy wins this round.

ColaCock bring 2 members to the boardroom. I'll make a decision alone and the next person that was going to have a challenge can post it.

[gingerbreadmann]

I'm glad some people had a problem with what I said. You should have.

Well maybe I was harsh but this is crunch time in the competition. Maybe I'm treating this too much like the real apprentice where the judges call you out when you aren't very good.

Sorry...Both teams were awesome!!!

I have a full time job too, one that I was working 60 hour weeks when I posted the contest. It took me time to put that together. I checked in on your progress every day. I was so excited about this because after seeing everything come out of this I wanted to see you guys step outside the box a bit. But in the end...one completed logo was presented early in the contest, and then that same logo was used for the final. I gave you guys more than 2 weeks to come up with something and we got two logos that were created total.

Honestly, do you think either team put forth its best effort?

Here.. I vote for Prodigy. But if I was a client...I'd be going somewhere else.

Prodigy wins this round.

ColaCock bring 2 members to the boardroom. I'll make a decision alone and the next person that was going to have a challenge can post it.

Whatever. I/we obviously can't get through to you or any other judge at all. And I apologize that we are not all professionals who design as full-time jobs and that we didn't completely satisfy you. I assume your challenge would have come out better if it was earlier in the competition.

And just saying but there only 3 people on our team.

I don't think I should be fired because I have been present as much as I can for every round, and haven't disappeared at all. I took on one challenge all by myself and have always been there in some form.

I think william should be fired for taking 4 straight challenges off. Nothing personal to him of course.

And I still can't believe Shiny was fired over him. There, I said it. That wasn't the judges decision of course too.

[Cola]

ColaCock bring 2 members to the boardroom. I'll make a decision alone and the next person that was going to have a challenge can post it.

I only have 2 other members: gingerbreadman and william.

[pcgd]

I'm glad some people had a problem with what I said. You should have.

Well maybe I was harsh but this is crunch time in the competition. Maybe I'm treating this too much like the real apprentice where the judges call you out when you aren't very good.

Sorry...Both teams were awesome!!!

I have a full time job too, one that I was working 60 hour weeks when I posted the contest. It took me time to put that together. I checked in on your progress every day. I was so excited about this because after seeing everything come out of this I wanted to see you guys step outside the box a bit. But in the end...one completed logo was presented early in the contest, and then that same logo was used for the final. I gave you guys more than 2 weeks to come up with something and we got two logos that were created total.

Honestly, do you think either team put forth its best effort?

Here.. I vote for Prodigy. But if I was a client...I'd be going somewhere else.

Prodigy wins this round.

ColaCock bring 2 members to the boardroom. I'll make a decision alone and the next person that was going to have a challenge can post it.

Whatever. I/we obviously can't get through to you or any other judge at all. And I apologize that we are not all professionals who design as full-time jobs and that we didn't completely satisfy you. I assume your challenge would have come out better if it was earlier in the competition.

And just saying but there only 3 people on our team.

I don't think I should be fired because I have been present as much as I can for every round, and haven't disappeared at all. I took on one challenge all by myself and have always been there in some form.

I think william should be fired for taking 4 straight challenges off. Nothing personal to him of course.

And I still can't believe Shiny was fired over him. There, I said it. That wasn't the judges decision of course too.

What are you trying to get through to me? That you're busy?

I KNOW you're busy. I'm saying EVERYONE is busy.

And in no way was I suggesting that this is more important than any of that stuff including a death in the family and school work.

I'm sorry I said anything. I apologize for offending anyone.

After relooking at the thread, William can do nothing to deter him from being fired in my book. His absence has been too long and although I understand there are other things in life, its not fair to overlook his absence. In the interest of keeping this moving on...

William is fired!

Optimus is left with ColaCock and Gingerbreadman

Prodigy is left with chestnutz6, -(dp)-, maz, and bruschimania.

Therefore, to even things for the last few challenges...I am moving brushimania to Optimus.

Teams for Challenge 8:

Optimus: ColaCock, Gingerbreadman, brushimania

Prodigy: chestnutz6, -(dp)-, maz

[pcgd]

Whatever. I/we obviously can't get through to you or any other judge at all. And I apologize that we are not all professionals who design as full-time jobs and that we didn't completely satisfy you. I assume your challenge would have come out better if it was earlier in the competition.

Oh and btw...this has nothing to do with you guys not satisfying me skills wise or anything. I've been very impressed out of the work that has come out of both teams so far and this work was just fine. I believe I've mentioned that more than a few times. I was just hoping with more time we'd see more than 2 concepts.

[gingerbreadmann]

I'm glad some people had a problem with what I said. You should have.

Well maybe I was harsh but this is crunch time in the competition. Maybe I'm treating this too much like the real apprentice where the judges call you out when you aren't very good.

Sorry...Both teams were awesome!!!

I have a full time job too, one that I was working 60 hour weeks when I posted the contest. It took me time to put that together. I checked in on your progress every day. I was so excited about this because after seeing everything come out of this I wanted to see you guys step outside the box a bit. But in the end...one completed logo was presented early in the contest, and then that same logo was used for the final. I gave you guys more than 2 weeks to come up with something and we got two logos that were created total.

Honestly, do you think either team put forth its best effort?

Here.. I vote for Prodigy. But if I was a client...I'd be going somewhere else.

Prodigy wins this round.

ColaCock bring 2 members to the boardroom. I'll make a decision alone and the next person that was going to have a challenge can post it.

Whatever. I/we obviously can't get through to you or any other judge at all. And I apologize that we are not all professionals who design as full-time jobs and that we didn't completely satisfy you. I assume your challenge would have come out better if it was earlier in the competition.

And just saying but there only 3 people on our team.

I don't think I should be fired because I have been present as much as I can for every round, and haven't disappeared at all. I took on one challenge all by myself and have always been there in some form.

I think william should be fired for taking 4 straight challenges off. Nothing personal to him of course.

And I still can't believe Shiny was fired over him. There, I said it. That wasn't the judges decision of course too.

What are you trying to get through to me? That you're busy?

I KNOW you're busy. I'm saying EVERYONE is busy.

And in no way was I suggesting that this is more important than any of that stuff including a death in the family and school work.

I'm sorry I said anything. I apologize for offending anyone.

No you didn't offend me, just that not voting because there weren't as many posts by the competitors is stupid is what I'm saying. And that I am sorry this wasn't our best challenge all around, but you can't count on everyone being around and able to work a lot on any given challenge. I mean that's obviously what we all shoot for and hope for but I don't think you should come to completely expect it, which it sounds like you did. I could be wrong and I do admit I think both teams wished we could do better but we couldn't. (edit: I guess I am wrong?... just saw the other post)

However my biggest issue by far is, where in the world are the other judges?

[pcgd]

Ok...cool. Neither one of us is going to budge so lets move on.