Long lost Saints jersey style

[cheo25]

Great find cheo25! Now it completes my uniform history as being correct that they did switch back to the gold numerals.

Just sorry it took a few days for me to sit down and make the screencap that BlueSky requested. BTW, BigDub, I like your uniform graphics a lot. Good job on those.

BlueSky, I realize now that you asked if the Saints' 1969 sleeve striping was the same as '67 and '68. The screencap of Abramowicz shows a black/gold stripe with the cut sleeves. I'll try to go back to my DVD this afternoon (I'm at work now) to check other players to confirm, but based off Abramowicz, I'd say the sleeve striping did not change in '69.

Awesome screenshot, thanks for doing that. Interesting that Danny's still wearing the reversed '68 pants stripes but the helmet stripes are back to the '69 b-w-b, especially since they played the hated Falcons only once and it was late in the season, in Atlanta on 12/7/69.

BTW, if the guy in the parka looks downcast, it's because the Saints are getting their a**es handed to them, 45-17.

Can I ask another favor as long as you're looking at the '69 footage? Are there highlights from the game vs. Pittsburgh? If so, are the Saints wearing black or white? That was the first game I ever attended and it's been so long ago I can't remember, seems to me they were in black but I'd love to get that confirmed because it has a bearing on which color custom throwback I'll order. Thought it would be cool to get what they were wearing the very first time I saw them play in person.

Since I saw this last night and it's still fresh in my mind, I can definitively tell you there is footage of Abramowicz standing next to Pittsburgh's Roy Jefferson (I think it's Jefferson, anyway) before the game followed by a nice long play by Abramowicz before he's driven out of bounds by a couple of Steeler tacklers. Saints were in black jerseys that day. When I get home this afternoon, I'll grab an image for you of both of those so that you can see for yourself.

BTW, at least once, I saw a guy in the Superdome wearing a black "46" throwback, complete with no name on the back. Striping looked accurate, as did the numbers. He was a few rows down from me in the upper deck, and I usually mind my own business so I don't have any more details. But good luck to you in finding something like that, and I wanted you to know there are others like you out there.

[BlueSky]

Great find cheo25! Now it completes my uniform history as being correct that they did switch back to the gold numerals.

Just sorry it took a few days for me to sit down and make the screencap that BlueSky requested. BTW, BigDub, I like your uniform graphics a lot. Good job on those.

BlueSky, I realize now that you asked if the Saints' 1969 sleeve striping was the same as '67 and '68. The screencap of Abramowicz shows a black/gold stripe with the cut sleeves. I'll try to go back to my DVD this afternoon (I'm at work now) to check other players to confirm, but based off Abramowicz, I'd say the sleeve striping did not change in '69.

Awesome screenshot, thanks for doing that. Interesting that Danny's still wearing the reversed '68 pants stripes but the helmet stripes are back to the '69 b-w-b, especially since they played the hated Falcons only once and it was late in the season, in Atlanta on 12/7/69.

BTW, if the guy in the parka looks downcast, it's because the Saints are getting their a**es handed to them, 45-17.

Can I ask another favor as long as you're looking at the '69 footage? Are there highlights from the game vs. Pittsburgh? If so, are the Saints wearing black or white? That was the first game I ever attended and it's been so long ago I can't remember, seems to me they were in black but I'd love to get that confirmed because it has a bearing on which color custom throwback I'll order. Thought it would be cool to get what they were wearing the very first time I saw them play in person.

Since I saw this last night and it's still fresh in my mind, I can definitively tell you there is footage of Abramowicz standing next to Pittsburgh's Roy Jefferson (I think it's Jefferson, anyway) before the game followed by a nice long play by Abramowicz before he's driven out of bounds by a couple of Steeler tacklers. Saints were in black jerseys that day. When I get home this afternoon, I'll grab an image for you of both of those so that you can see for yourself.

BTW, at least once, I saw a guy in the Superdome wearing a black "46" throwback, complete with no name on the back. Striping looked accurate, as did the numbers. He was a few rows down from me in the upper deck, and I usually mind my own business so I don't have any more details. But good luck to you in finding something like that, and I wanted you to know there are others like you out there.

Thanks, I really appreciate your help. This kind of jogged my memory, I seem to recall a screenshot from somewhere of Doug Atkins sacking the Steelers QB and Pittsburgh had the old white jerseys with yellow shoulder panels.

But the Past and Present site says they didn't wear those past '67 so I may be wrong.

Now, "...there are others like you..."?? I know you mean people who like late 60's Saints throwbacks, not goofy uni freaks who notice and care about what color the sleeve stripes are, though I'm obviously both of those. My wife thinks it's an illness. Last night I was going through this whole thing with her and was explaining about the Saints ordering the one stripe pattern and getting the wrong ones but wearing them anyway for the last 9 games of '69 and I said, "I guess the team figured..." And she interrupts and kind of rolls her eyes and finishes the sentence with, "...nobody cares what order their stripes are in?" Got a good laugh out of that one.

[darkhaha]

Great find cheo25! Now it completes my uniform history as being correct that they did switch back to the gold numerals.

Just sorry it took a few days for me to sit down and make the screencap that BlueSky requested. BTW, BigDub, I like your uniform graphics a lot. Good job on those.

BlueSky, I realize now that you asked if the Saints' 1969 sleeve striping was the same as '67 and '68. The screencap of Abramowicz shows a black/gold stripe with the cut sleeves. I'll try to go back to my DVD this afternoon (I'm at work now) to check other players to confirm, but based off Abramowicz, I'd say the sleeve striping did not change in '69.

Awesome screenshot, thanks for doing that. Interesting that Danny's still wearing the reversed '68 pants stripes but the helmet stripes are back to the '69 b-w-b, especially since they played the hated Falcons only once and it was late in the season, in Atlanta on 12/7/69.

I've looked at the pic shown above for a long time, and it appears to me that the pants striping is actually b-w-b. I think the top or left sliver of the pants we see is the gold of the pants, and there is a faintly discernible black stripe to the right/underneath the white stripe. But I could be mistaken...

Just to make things even more interesting, here's a pic, most likely from '68, in which Abramowicz has w-b-w stripes on the helmet but b-w-b on the pants:

So it appears the striping discrepancy shown in the photo of the offensive line above was not just an isolated incident. Guess the league was a little less anal about the uniforms being uniform back in the day...

[bigdub81]

Now, "...there are others like you..."?? I know you mean people who like late 60's Saints throwbacks, not goofy uni freaks who notice and care about what color the sleeve stripes are, though I'm obviously both of those. My wife thinks it's an illness. Last night I was going through this whole thing with her and was explaining about the Saints ordering the one stripe pattern and getting the wrong ones but wearing them anyway for the last 9 games of '69 and I said, "I guess the team figured..." And she interrupts and kind of rolls her eyes and finishes the sentence with, "...nobody cares what order their stripes are in?" Got a good laugh out of that one.

You to huh? I get that from my wife and I'm only 27!! There is someone on this board who mentioned a company that does custom throwbacks accurate to the team and era. I want one for myself just don't know who to get! I contacted Mithcell & Ness and they said that they didn't have any plans to release any other Saints throwbacks other than a re-release of the 70's Manning due to a low demand. I guess it's a way to put money towards damn near every player the Eagles ever put out which they seem to carry in their stock! It sucks but I'm gonna' try this company out and see what's what.

[darkhaha]

Now, "...there are others like you..."?? I know you mean people who like late 60's Saints throwbacks, not goofy uni freaks who notice and care about what color the sleeve stripes are, though I'm obviously both of those. My wife thinks it's an illness. Last night I was going through this whole thing with her and was explaining about the Saints ordering the one stripe pattern and getting the wrong ones but wearing them anyway for the last 9 games of '69 and I said, "I guess the team figured..." And she interrupts and kind of rolls her eyes and finishes the sentence with, "...nobody cares what order their stripes are in?" Got a good laugh out of that one.

You to huh? I get that from my wife and I'm only 27!! There is someone on this board who mentioned a company that does custom throwbacks accurate to the team and era. I want one for myself just don't know who to get! I contacted Mithcell & Ness and they said that they didn't have any plans to release any other Saints throwbacks other than a re-release of the 70's Manning due to a low demand. I guess it's a way to put money towards damn near every player the Eagles ever put out which they seem to carry in their stock! It sucks but I'm gonna' try this company out and see what's what.

Check out page 1 of this very thread as well as this one: Custom Jerseys

[BlueSky]

Great find cheo25! Now it completes my uniform history as being correct that they did switch back to the gold numerals.

Just sorry it took a few days for me to sit down and make the screencap that BlueSky requested. BTW, BigDub, I like your uniform graphics a lot. Good job on those.

BlueSky, I realize now that you asked if the Saints' 1969 sleeve striping was the same as '67 and '68. The screencap of Abramowicz shows a black/gold stripe with the cut sleeves. I'll try to go back to my DVD this afternoon (I'm at work now) to check other players to confirm, but based off Abramowicz, I'd say the sleeve striping did not change in '69.

Awesome screenshot, thanks for doing that. Interesting that Danny's still wearing the reversed '68 pants stripes but the helmet stripes are back to the '69 b-w-b, especially since they played the hated Falcons only once and it was late in the season, in Atlanta on 12/7/69.

I've looked at the pic shown above for a long time, and it appears to me that the pants striping is actually b-w-b. I think the top or left sliver of the pants we see is the gold of the pants, and there is a faintly discernible black stripe to the right/underneath the white stripe. But I could be mistaken...

Just to make things even more interesting, here's a pic, most likely from '68, in which Abramowicz has w-b-w stripes on the helmet but b-w-b on the pants:

So it appears the striping discrepancy shown in the photo of the offensive line above was not just an isolated incident. Guess the league was a little less anal about the uniforms being uniform back in the day...

When I first read your post about the pants being b-w-b I was like, "What the heck is HE looking at?" Then I went back and re-examined the pic and you're absolutely right, it's the b-w-b stripe and what looks like an outside white stripe at the top is just a very narrow band of the gold pants material. Good catch!

The pic above is most likely from the Saints home game with Dallas at Tulane Stadium on 11/3/68. As in the earlier posted pic of the Saints vs. the Cardinals, we know some players wore b-w-b pants stripes with the w-b-w helmets. I'm quite certain none of them ever imagined it would be a topic of discussion 41 years later...

[cheo25]

BlueSky, here are the promised 1969 Steelers-Saints screengrabs. Hard to get a good action shot because it looks like they were using a high camera location for the brief game highlight they had.

And BlueSky and BigDub, my wife can probably relate to your wives on being married to a uni freak and Saints fan rolled into one. Mine graciously takes an interest and humors me most of the time. She's had to listen to me go on and on about the "Big Chin Guy" and the Saints shield. Throw in my loyalties to the Astros with their dizzying array of uniform-related madness and it's a wonder my wife didn't run before we got to the altar.

Anywho, if you need any other clarifications on anything, just holler and I'll try to help. I've got a nice NFL Films collection amassed among the SB DVD set, stuff I've recorded off NFL Network and ESPN and other NFL Films DVDs I've bought.

[BlueSky]

BlueSky, here are the promised 1969 Steelers-Saints screengrabs. Hard to get a good action shot because it looks like they were using a high camera location for the brief game highlight they had.

And BlueSky and BigDub, my wife can probably relate to your wives on being married to a uni freak and Saints fan rolled into one. Mine graciously takes an interest and humors me most of the time. She's had to listen to me go on and on about the "Big Chin Guy" and the Saints shield. Throw in my loyalties to the Astros with their dizzying array of uniform-related madness and it's a wonder my wife didn't run before we got to the altar.

Anywho, if you need any other clarifications on anything, just holler and I'll try to help. I've got a nice NFL Films collection amassed among the SB DVD set, stuff I've recorded off NFL Network and ESPN and other NFL Films DVDs I've bought.

Sweet. Thanks a million for doing that. Weird to think I was there. Cool to see the posed shot next to the game shot - Abramowicz was always a sleeve cutter. Check out his training camp haircut too compared to the sideburns and longer hair in the game pic.

Do you have or have you seen the clips from the Saints first preseason game that NFL Films showed in their Lost Treasures series? Spectacular color film of the Saints coming out of the locker room for the very first time. Wish they'd go back to that 'copper' gold they first used.

[cheo25]

Sweet. Thanks a million for doing that. Weird to think I was there. Cool to see the posed shot next to the game shot - Abramowicz was always a sleeve cutter. Check out his training camp haircut too compared to the sideburns and longer hair in the game pic.

Do you have or have you seen the clips from the Saints first preseason game that NFL Films showed in their Lost Treasures series? Spectacular color film of the Saints coming out of the locker room for the very first time. Wish they'd go back to that 'copper' gold they first used.

The Abramowicz comparison is pretty cool. He was slightly before my time, but I got familiar with the name when Harold Carmichael took over the consecutive games with a reception record. I grew up in the Archie Manning years. From what I could tell, Abramowicz would have been awesome to watch in person.

I haven't seen the Lost Treasures clips, but I recorded some Lost Treasures stuff over the summer and saved it to DVD. I'll try to go back and look over the weekend. NFLN had a good stretch of recordable material during the summer, and I didn't quite get a chance to watch it all after I recorded it. If I've got it, I'll try to make a screen grab this weekend.

Found this discrepancy while going further through my '69 highlight film. When I made your screengrabs, all of that stuff was in the first five minutes. I hadn't watched the '69 stuff as thoroughly as some of the stuff from the late '70s/early '80s (meaning I had only watched the '69 film once or twice previously). So for the heck of it, I fast-forwarded through the DVD. And here's what I found -- Saints at home in black jerseys/WHITE NUMBERS in '69.

The first is vs. Washington in the season opener, the second vs. Baltimore in the fifth game -- both at home. It's hard to see but the NFL50 logo is on the left arm (No. 35 in the first shot, No. 23 and 24 in the second) in both cases. You can sort of see the NFL logo outline in the second shot. That's the best I could do because the action moves pretty quickly.

[BlueSky]

Sweet. Thanks a million for doing that. Weird to think I was there. Cool to see the posed shot next to the game shot - Abramowicz was always a sleeve cutter. Check out his training camp haircut too compared to the sideburns and longer hair in the game pic.

Do you have or have you seen the clips from the Saints first preseason game that NFL Films showed in their Lost Treasures series? Spectacular color film of the Saints coming out of the locker room for the very first time. Wish they'd go back to that 'copper' gold they first used.

The Abramowicz comparison is pretty cool. He was slightly before my time, but I got familiar with the name when Harold Carmichael took over the consecutive games with a reception record. I grew up in the Archie Manning years. From what I could tell, Abramowicz would have been awesome to watch in person.

I haven't seen the Lost Treasures clips, but I recorded some Lost Treasures stuff over the summer and saved it to DVD. I'll try to go back and look over the weekend. NFLN had a good stretch of recordable material during the summer, and I didn't quite get a chance to watch it all after I recorded it. If I've got it, I'll try to make a screen grab this weekend.

Found this discrepancy while going further through my '69 highlight film. When I made your screengrabs, all of that stuff was in the first five minutes. I hadn't watched the '69 stuff as thoroughly as some of the stuff from the late '70s/early '80s (meaning I had only watched the '69 film once or twice previously). So for the heck of it, I fast-forwarded through the DVD. And here's what I found -- Saints at home in black jerseys/WHITE NUMBERS in '69.

The first is vs. Washington in the season opener, the second vs. Baltimore in the fifth game -- both at home. It's hard to see but the NFL50 logo is on the left arm (No. 35 in the first shot, No. 23 and 24 in the second) in both cases. You can sort of see the NFL logo outline in the second shot. That's the best I could do because the action moves pretty quickly.

Yeah, those are the jerseys they wore for the first 5 games. They wore the gold numbers in the last 9 games.

That Lost Treasures episode is called 'Lost Sounds'. Here's the recap from tv.com:

==

Early player sound was not synchronized, demonstrating the novice nature of NFL Films in the mid-1960s. One breakthrough came when a rock-concert soundman came to the 1967 Baltimore Colts' training camp. Highlighting the never-before-seen footage in this program are shots taken from a Rams-Saints exhibition at Anaheim on August 2, 1967. It was the first time the New Orleans Saints took the field. Other new sound bytes include games filmed in Miami and Green Bay.

==

[bigdub81]

Wish they'd go back to that 'copper' gold they first used

Agreed! Our one complaint for our uniforms is matching the god-damn golds already! With the technology that we have today why can't it be done if it was capable in the '60's? Rumor is that when Ditka took over at HC in 1996 he pushed for the switch to the gold numbers because he loved how the gold looked on the team back when he played for the Bears. He said back then the team looked rich and classy! The away set only lasted three years after complaints from the media about not being able to read numbers from the booth. The gold numbers were ditched for black ones the following year and never heard from again.

In the sunlight alll the gold's seem to match...

But under an overcast shadow you can clearly see they don't!

They could have gotten away with the retro look Ditka wanted by actually going with the copper tone gold and using a thicker black border on the away jerseys. If you look closely at the tv#'s on the pic above they tried that to make the numbers stand out more. The problem comes in because you're using a lighter shade of gold to conincide with your helmet and pants it eventually makes the numerals harder to distinguish!

The 1994 NFL 75th Anniversary jerseys didn't have that problem and they used a thinner border around the numbers on both home and away sets. Even with an in-accurate helmet (no grey facemask) the tone of the 60's were correct.

Being that I own an authentic current home jersey and an authentic throwback Bush, I do prefer the old gold used for the throwback as opposed to the gold on the current. The tone is richer as can be seen in the Danny Abramowicz pic up above.

Here's my concept of what an updated throwback style would look like. Using PT23 as the template I enlarged the FDL, added a wordmark, changed the reebok shield to gold to match the wordmark, new numeral font, stripes back on the pants to match the helmet, and......wait for it......all the golds correctly match!!!!

Here's another version that I did using a deeper shade of gold. I see it as combining elements of both old and new without going over the top like our NFC counterparts.

[Sodboy13]

Boo on the overused Russell font.

[cheo25]

Big Dub, I like the La. logo on the jersey and the look overall. And I agree with you that I like the old gold better.

[bigdub81]

Boo on the overused Russell font

Russell font?

[tBBP]

BlueSky, here are the promised 1969 Steelers-Saints screengrabs. Hard to get a good action shot because it looks like they were using a high camera location for the brief game highlight they had.

And BlueSky and BigDub, my wife can probably relate to your wives on being married to a uni freak and Saints fan rolled into one. Mine graciously takes an interest and humors me most of the time. She's had to listen to me go on and on about the "Big Chin Guy" and the Saints shield. Throw in my loyalties to the Astros with their dizzying array of uniform-related madness and it's a wonder my wife didn't run before we got to the altar.

Anywho, if you need any other clarifications on anything, just holler and I'll try to help. I've got a nice NFL Films collection amassed among the SB DVD set, stuff I've recorded off NFL Network and ESPN and other NFL Films DVDs I've bought.

Sweet. Thanks a million for doing that. Weird to think I was there. Cool to see the posed shot next to the game shot - Abramowicz was always a sleeve cutter. Check out his training camp haircut too compared to the sideburns and longer hair in the game pic.

Do you have or have you seen the clips from the Saints first preseason game that NFL Films showed in their Lost Treasures series? Spectacular color film of the Saints coming out of the locker room for the very first time. Wish they'd go back to that 'copper' gold they first used.

There's something about those big-@$$ numbers that really get to me...in a good way, though. Man...they just don't stitch numbers like that no more.

(But does anyone else besides me see the not-so-perfectly-cut white "border" layer on the #6???)

[bigdub81]

(But does anyone else besides me see the not-so-perfectly-cut white "border" layer on the #6???)

Damn you beat me to the post! I noticed it earlier but I just got back from work and here you mentioned it! I guess that's what good ole' fashion american craftsmanship will get you....not-so-perfectly cut numbers! Solution....out-source all future NFL labor to China!

By the way my fellow southern friend...how you like my updates to your templates plus my new DT temp that I threw in there?

[tBBP]

(But does anyone else besides me see the not-so-perfectly-cut white "border" layer on the #6???)

Damn you beat me to the post! I noticed it earlier but I just got back from work and here you mentioned it! I guess that's what good ole' fashion american craftsmanship will get you....not-so-perfectly cut numbers! Solution....out-source all future NFL labor to China!

By the way my fellow southern friend...how you like my updates to your templates plus my new DT temp that I threw in there?

I'm sure I'd like them if I could actually see them.

(Something about the bandwidth issues over here prevent me from seeing some of the images that people post.)

[cubbies06]

(But does anyone else besides me see the not-so-perfectly-cut white "border" layer on the #6???)

Damn you beat me to the post! I noticed it earlier but I just got back from work and here you mentioned it! I guess that's what good ole' fashion american craftsmanship will get you....not-so-perfectly cut numbers! Solution....out-source all future NFL labor to China!

By the way my fellow southern friend...how you like my updates to your templates plus my new DT temp that I threw in there?

Dub, like all your concepts. Strange seeing the white/white , though. That 1975 season was a classic!!

[CAVALIER]

(But does anyone else besides me see the not-so-perfectly-cut white "border" layer on the #6???)

Damn you beat me to the post! I noticed it earlier but I just got back from work and here you mentioned it! I guess that's what good ole' fashion american craftsmanship will get you....not-so-perfectly cut numbers! Solution....out-source all future NFL labor to China!

By the way my fellow southern friend...how you like my updates to your templates plus my new DT temp that I threw in there?

Dub, like all your concepts. Strange seeing the white/white , though. That 1975 season was a classic!!

I love the white on white...I've been waiting for years for the oft rumored change. Is this the year? who knows? Every year is the same thing

[cubbies06]

(But does anyone else besides me see the not-so-perfectly-cut white "border" layer on the #6???)

Damn you beat me to the post! I noticed it earlier but I just got back from work and here you mentioned it! I guess that's what good ole' fashion american craftsmanship will get you....not-so-perfectly cut numbers! Solution....out-source all future NFL labor to China!

By the way my fellow southern friend...how you like my updates to your templates plus my new DT temp that I threw in there?

Dub, like all your concepts. Strange seeing the white/white , though. That 1975 season was a classic!!

I love the white on white...I've been waiting for years for the oft rumored change. Is this the year? who knows? Every year is the same thing

Love the white on white myself. I was sitting in the corner endzone when Joel Parker scored the Saints first Superdome touchdown against the Pack in 1975 in that very uniform. I believe they wore white on white at home that entire season. I'm really SICK of the unitard looking black pants they wear.