St. Louis Rams SOLD (pending NFL approval)

[McCall]

This has been proposed before.

Proposed on CCSLC or elsewhere?

Some Chicago businessman, politician, whatever he was, proposed adding a second team.

[The_Admiral]

That was the mayor. He's kind of a big deal. After the Arizona Cardinals fell ass-backwards into the Super Bowl earlier this year, he publicly lamented that they had been Chicago's second NFL team up till about 50 years ago, and if they had stayed, then Chicago would've had a team in the Super Bowl again, ergo, we need a second team, which can play in some repurposed Olympic facility, which we know now will not even be original-purposed, haha. Of course, the reason the Cardinals left was that the city wasn't particularly interested in following a team that wasn't the Bears, but this hasn't stopped people from Daley to Patchez from suggesting that a second team could possibly work there. It's not a football town, it's a Bears town. There's no strong or unified passion for college football, there's definitely no passion for high school football, and most people can't reliably keep tabs on the rest of the NFL beyond the Bears. Cedric Benson plays for the who? Since when? He got what?

[Patchez]

Who's Cedric Benson? He is dead to me!

admiral is correct about Mayor Daley wanted a 2nd NFL team...

But it originally dates back to when the Bears were threatening to move to the 'burbs during stadium negotiations. His father, the late, great Mayor Daley had called out for a seond team to move here quite awhile ago. The Halas family had a stronger say do to they having a "grandfathered" or contractual territorial rights to this area. (But money and demographic marketing studies speak volumes!) This Mayor Daley, as his dad was a true sports fans, hell who would'nt if you can get free tickets anytime!!!

admiral is correct about this being a Bears town...

But what admiral does not know that I, someone who has been a Chicago sports fan and resident for over 65+ years is that "if you build it, they will come!" That's to say, with the limited schedule the NFL has, and the fact being, with a good portion of today's Chicagoans are also yesterday's Pittsburghers and/or CheeseHeads, they would certainly don their Black & Gold with Ironworker's helmet or Green & Gold with cheese wedges on their heads, go to games to share a frozen beer or two in the stands with those Bears (and/or Rams) fan friends and associates. (let me catch my breathe after that run on sentence... ok)

Add the fact that a good portion of today's Chicagoans who CAN afford to pay NFL ticket prices wore previously Hawkeyes, Trojans, Cornhuskers, etc. Those folks could squeeze in some Rams and Bears games to root for alumi, drink frozen beer, yadda yadda yadda.

Then theres the freaks like me who, when I can afford it, support my local pro teams (even the Cubs!).

Finally there are those who follow their NFL team from city to city...

("But honey, if we go to Jacksonville for the game, while me and the boys are at the stadium, the girls and you can... ")

All the above points towards quite a larger demographic than St. Louis.

But as a reminder, I don't necessarily want to leave the impression that St. Louis is not worthy of a NFL team. They most certainly are!

But why should NYC and Boston be the only whores in this arena!

P.S. So to not be accused of kissing admiral tush here...

Admiral is incorrect or misinformed...

Just an hour ago I drove past Northwestern's Ryan Field. The area was a full blossom of bustling colors, 85% purple, 25% your basic autumn mix, and 5% red & white (IU is here).

While NU is in a suburb that borders Chicago, it's still a Chicago thing.

(my math skills can be blamed on a Chicago Public School edumacasion!)

[infrared41]

But what admiral does not know that I, someone who has been a Chicago sports fan and resident for over 65+ years

65+ years? Damn, how old are you?

[The_Admiral]

Too old for elaborate Photoshop-based poop jokes, at any rate.

No, nobody really cares about Northwestern football. Northwestern doesn't care about Northwestern football. They have their fans like all the Big Ten schools + Notre Dame have their fans, but it's not really a thing.

That's to say, with the limited schedule the NFL has, and the fact being, with a good portion of today's Chicagoans are also yesterday's Pittsburghers and/or CheeseHeads, they would certainly don their Black & Gold with Ironworker's helmet or Green & Gold with cheese wedges on their heads, go to games to share a frozen beer or two in the stands with those Bears (and/or Rams) fan friends and associates. (let me catch my breathe after that run on sentence... ok)

This doesn't address a single thing I said. My question was, where is a sustainable Rams fanbase going to come from when everyone has grown up with the Bears for better or worse? Are you suggesting that people coming to Chicago Rams games to watch the road team play will be the foundation of their support? That's patently ridiculous.

Add the fact that a good portion of today's Chicagoans who CAN afford to pay NFL ticket prices wore previously Hawkeyes, Trojans, Cornhuskers, etc. Those folks could squeeze in some Rams and Bears games to root for alumi, drink frozen beer, yadda yadda yadda.

How does having attended Iowa/USC/Nebraska translate into Chicago being able to support two NFL teams? That's it, I'm not discussing this anymore.

[IceCap]

A second NFL team in Chicago is like a second NHL team in Montréal. Yeah, at one point it worked, but those days are long gone.

[rams80]

How does having attended Iowa/USC/Nebraska translate into Chicago being able to support two NFL teams? That's it, I'm not discussing this anymore.

I'm not quite sure either...especially since Nebraska alums have trouble panning out in St. Louis and I have difficulty naming Iowa or USC alums on the roster.

[Patchez]

Hey, I heard Cedric Benson might be with the Cincinnati Bengals!

I'll confirm on the Google soon.

icecap to quote The Monkees (Wiki or Google them), "That was then, and this is Now!"

You honestly cannot compare old time, old school, small town, Montreal, where unlike most of Europe, refuse knowledge of the Queen's English, to a major metropolitan like Chicago, in this century, where da folks talk good English!

rams80, Good point (and if infared41 was not watching my spelling and grammer so closely, I'd type toosha!)

Do you know if more revenue for an NFL franchise is derived from tickets sold to individuals/groups of lets say Ram fans, or corporate boxes purchased by corporate monies, offered up by corporate professionals, who may have been former Nebraska, Iowa and/or USC alums, who by a LARGE percentage reside or work in and around Chicago, as compared to St. Louis?

(check Guinness (the book, not the brew), could be the longest question on record!!!)

P.S. Alexander's Steak House in Peoria... I like!

P.S.S. The Bears should take the "C'" decals off their helmets and leave them in the parking lot between stadiums in Cincy. Don't throw 'em, or try to run them over to Great American Ballpark, just set them down. Put the Bear on the helmets and start all over!

[Sodboy13]

Whomever is responsible for providing you with your pills has been quite derelict in their duties as of late.

[The_Admiral]

I wanna get Tank, NewEraPanda, Coast2Coast, and Patchez together in one place. It'd be the chat room of the damned. Nothing would make any mother:censored:ing sense at all. They'd mangle the English language so thoroughly that John Wayne Gacy would say they really did a number.

[IceCap]

Hey, I heard Cedric Benson might be with the Cincinnati Bengals!

I'll confirm on the Google soon.

icecap to quote The Monkees (Wiki or Google them), "That was then, and this is Now!"

You honestly cannot compare old time, old school, small town, Montreal, where unlike most of Europe, refuse knowledge of the Queen's English, to a major metropolitan like Chicago, in this century, where da folks talk good English!

rams80, Good point (and if infared41 was not watching my spelling and grammer so closely, I'd type toosha!)

Do you know if more revenue for an NFL franchise is derived from tickets sold to individuals/groups of lets say Ram fans, or corporate boxes purchased by corporate monies, offered up by corporate professionals, who may have been former Nebraska, Iowa and/or USC alums, who by a LARGE percentage reside or work in and around Chicago, as compared to St. Louis?

(check Guinness (the book, not the brew), could be the longest question on record!!!)

P.S. Alexander's Steak House in Peoria... I like!

P.S.S. The Bears should take the "C'" decals off their helmets and leave them in the parking lot between stadiums in Cincy. Don't throw 'em, or try to run them over to Great American Ballpark, just set them down. Put the Bear on the helmets and start all over!

Um....what?

I'll do my best to respond....

Old, small time Montréal would have been, and was, the best time to put a second NHL team in the city. One to represent the English, one to represent the French.

And FTR Montréal's one of the more English speaking areas.

[rams80]

P.S. Alexander's Steak House in Peoria... I like!

Oro? You survived going to that part of town? (damnit)

More importantly, Chicago corporate professionals are likely not going to be Iowa or Nebraska alums, or if they are, are not interested in the activities of their fellow alumni on the gridiron.

[Patchez]

P.S. Alexander's Steak House in Peoria... I like!

Oro? You survived going to that part of town? (damnit)

More importantly, Chicago corporate professionals are likely not going to be Iowa or Nebraska alums, or if they are, are not interested in the activities of their fellow alumni on the gridiron.

Survived? You don't know what I look like, or what I carry with me.

Now why would you think Iowa and Nebraska alums would not find work here?

As for their interest on fellow alumni on the gridiron, agreed!

[IceCap]

Your entire argument for a second NFL team in Chicago is that the Rams will draft a lot of players from Nebraska and Iowa, and that alumni of these schools will all move to Chicago?

Wow.....I mean wow. That just might the stupidest argument ever put forth on these boards.

[STL FANATIC]

Back on topic, here's an article by Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz giving the Rams fans props and dismissing the notion that St. Louis is in anyway a bad football market.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/1F0A52146CD26D418625765A0004F922?OpenDocument

Nobody in this thread (or very few, if anybody) has made the claim that the fans are the issue here, so that's not really in a direct response to anything here, but it's still relevant.

[The_Admiral]

Bernie Miklasz looks like a middle-aged Braden. Haha.

[STL FANATIC]

Bernie Miklasz looks like a middle-aged Braden. Haha.

In the face perhaps. Bernie, however, is HUUUUUGE. I won't rag on him for it as he's even shared some of his struggles on his own message board. But seriously if you see him on TV or something. HUGE.

[The_Admiral]

I was just going by face, yeah.

Anyway, I guess he makes valid points about the core of Rams fans sticking with the team through the bad times, but he concedes that all the sellouts this year have been achieved on the backs of travelling fans from nearby Midwestern teams with larger fanbases, and to me that's indicative of instability.

But that's nothing to be ashamed of. It happens in other NFL cities.

Yes, every team has road team fans, but how many teams rely on them to televise their games? That's the problem. Yeah, they still have the core, but so did the L.A. Rams.

[STL FANATIC]

I was just going by face, yeah.

Anyway, I guess he makes valid points about the core of Rams fans sticking with the team through the bad times, but he concedes that all the sellouts this year have been achieved on the backs of travelling fans from nearby Midwestern teams with larger fanbases, and to me that's indicative of instability.

But that's nothing to be ashamed of. It happens in other NFL cities.

Yes, every team has road team fans, but how many teams rely on them to televise their games? That's the problem. Yeah, they still have the core, but so did the L.A. Rams.

I think the comfort level of that situation is that we're talking about a historically bad football team right now. We didn't rely on those visiting fans when the team was competitive (and I don't just mean the dominant years of 1999-2001). I think it's operating under the assumption that this team won't consistently be this bad.

Most cities would struggle in some ways to sellout with a team like this. The Lions had a blackout (or more?) last year. Fans aren't going to pay for football this bad in all but very few (or maybe all in general) places over the long-run. So the idea is to avoid playing football at historically bad levels for many consecutive years, and they should be fine.

[Patchez]

Back on topic, here's an article by Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz giving the Rams fans props and dismissing the notion that St. Louis is in anyway a bad football market.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/1F0A52146CD26D418625765A0004F922?OpenDocument

Nobody in this thread (or very few, if anybody) has made the claim that the fans are the issue here, so that's not really in a direct response to anything here, but it's still relevant.

Valid and very true! St. Louis area has a great and loyal fan base. The Cards fans are the best baseball fans I have experience with.

I've been to many ballparks, (not Boston) and NONE were as knowledgeable in terms on the athletic endeavor before them, the players in both dugouts, their teams rich history, etc.

And on every visit I had to Busch II and Busch III, I don't see as many drunks staggering out of the park post game as let's say a certain team on de "nort" side of "Chicaga!"

Long story short... St. Louis fans make it a major league town, but as admiral kinda points out, the business of sports is more than fan base alone. Agreed?