2009-10 NFL off season thread

[BBTV]

FWIW, I'm getting texts right and left from people who are going out to get #4 Kolb jerseys this week. This kid really seems like pressure doesn't get to him, and that he always remains cool, but I have to think that he has no idea what kind of pressure he's now under.

Just realized that this essentially guarantees that Vick will be back and play a bigger role (like I posted a while back.) Really not sure I'm happy about that, but will give it time to play out.

[Sport]

I hope Kevin Kolb is a terrible disappointment so that Eagles fans will come to appreciate what the Mcnabb era really was.

[BBTV]

Of course it was a good era. Does that mean you have to keep a guy forever even if it's clear he can't win and he's holding back your future? It's not like they're trading a 25-year-old mobile player who can carry a team.

[Sport]

Of course it was a good era. Does that mean you have to keep a guy forever even if it's clear he can't win and he's holding back your future? It's not like they're trading a 25-year-old mobile player who can carry a team.

At some point you have to move on, but my point was that Philadelphia has bitched about this guy since draft day in 1999. He hasn't been appreciated like he should've been. Eagles fans seem to focus on his losing record in big games, but forget that before Mcnabb the Eagles rarely ever got to the big game. It's unfair to Mcnabb (and Andy Reid for that matter) to ignore that fact.

[tBBP]

And that sound you heard was the Rams' retarded brinkmanship with Washington regarding the #1 overall pick crashing and burning. Just like every other attempt by this front office to plot, scheme, or maneuver.

Not that this is actually going to happen...but, maybe now the Rams might look at plucking Jason Campbell from the Redskins, since he's expendable now? Or Colt Brennan, if he's still there.

(Or go ahead and draft Sam Bradford and, well...you can finish that sentence. )

[BBTV]

Of course it was a good era. Does that mean you have to keep a guy forever even if it's clear he can't win and he's holding back your future? It's not like they're trading a 25-year-old mobile player who can carry a team.

At some point you have to move on, but my point was that Philadelphia has bitched about this guy since draft day in 1999. He hasn't been appreciated like he should've been. Eagles fans seem to focus on his losing record in big games, but forget that before Mcnabb the Eagles rarely ever got to the big game. It's unfair to Mcnabb (and Andy Reid for that matter) to ignore that fact.

You only hear the bitching. Just like poker players only remember the bad beats. Just because people don't come on message boards and say "hey, did you see the game today? McNabb was above average!" doesn't mean he doesn't get his props. When he threw four TDs on a broken ankle vs. the Cardinals, this city was ready to collectively take him in their mouths. You also don't see all of his unlikeable qualities. I consider myself pretty level headed, especially because (believe it or not) I really don't consider myself much of a sports fan (I certainly don't get emotionally wrapped up in it.) I don't feel that he was done wrong by the fans or the team. The draft day thing was wrong. Totally wrong. But since then, this fan base has wanted to love him, wanted to cheer for him, wanted him to win. But after the first few years, it couldn't, it couldn't, and he didn't. His "goofiness" and demeanor made him very difficult to like, his thin skin and over sensitivity made him difficult to root for, his throwing up in big games made him hard to support, and his lack of keeping his cool in the big pressure situations made him someone who simply cannot win. Remember, he's the QB - he's going to get the most heat by default. Considering that, and that he's playing in a major media market for a team with a rabid fan base that has been starving for a championship, and you get this. Without context, I'll admit that it doesn't seem fair. But in that context, that's just how it goes.

[BBTV]

LOL. The Phillies open in Washington tomorrow. Just heard a friend joking that the Eagles pulled the trigger tonight because they knew that thousands of Phillies fans were going down to DC tomorrow and there would be plenty who would volunteer to drive McNabb out of Philly and down to DC with them (of course he's in AZ not Phila, but still.) I wish I was going - there's going to be a lot of Eagles / Redskins chatter in the stands down there!

And that sound you heard was the Rams' retarded brinkmanship with Washington regarding the #1 overall pick crashing and burning. Just like every other attempt by this front office to plot, scheme, or maneuver.

Not that this is actually going to happen...but, maybe now the Rams might look at plucking Jason Campbell from the Redskins, since he's expendable now? Or Colt Brennan, if he's still there.

(Or go ahead and draft Sam Bradford and, well...you can finish that sentence. )

Speculation was that the Redskins were going to turn around and package McNabb to the Rams to get that pick, however, knowing that, McNabb (wisely) asked that some "trade language" be added so that he cannot be traded again this year. Apparently it was more than just speculation.

[Sport]

Of course it was a good era. Does that mean you have to keep a guy forever even if it's clear he can't win and he's holding back your future? It's not like they're trading a 25-year-old mobile player who can carry a team.

At some point you have to move on, but my point was that Philadelphia has bitched about this guy since draft day in 1999. He hasn't been appreciated like he should've been. Eagles fans seem to focus on his losing record in big games, but forget that before Mcnabb the Eagles rarely ever got to the big game. It's unfair to Mcnabb (and Andy Reid for that matter) to ignore that fact.

You only hear the bitching. Just like poker players only remember the bad beats. Just because people don't come on message boards and say "hey, did you see the game today? McNabb was above average!" doesn't mean he doesn't get his props. When he threw four TDs on a broken ankle vs. the Cardinals, this city was ready to collectively take him in their mouths. You also don't see all of his unlikeable qualities. I consider myself pretty level headed, especially because (believe it or not) I really don't consider myself much of a sports fan (I certainly don't get emotionally wrapped up in it.) I don't feel that he was done wrong by the fans or the team. The draft day thing was wrong. Totally wrong. But since then, this fan base has wanted to love him, wanted to cheer for him, wanted him to win. But after the first few years, it couldn't, it couldn't, and he didn't. His "goofiness" and demeanor made him very difficult to like, his thin skin and over sensitivity made him difficult to root for, his throwing up in big games made him hard to support, and his lack of keeping his cool in the big pressure situations made him someone who simply cannot win. Remember, he's the QB - he's going to get the most heat by default. Considering that, and that he's playing in a major media market for a team with a rabid fan base that has been starving for a championship, and you get this. Without context, I'll admit that it doesn't seem fair. But in that context, that's just how it goes.

I guess my fandom of a team that hasn't had one playoff win since 1990 isn't allowing me to see it from your side. You got to see ten in his time. I'd take that happily, superbowl win or not.

[BBTV]

I totally get your point (the Eagles have had a lot of lean years too) but you have to understand that after a while, it gets old (yes, I know that makes me sound like an ingrate.) But it's true. It's not right, but the playoffs and playoff wins just become expected, and you start to demand progression. It's not much different than in any aspect in life.

A guy who is laid off, can't pay his rent, and is facing homelessness is going to be evnyous of the guy working at McDonalds for $10 / hour.

He applies, and gets hired. After a while, he realizes that $10 sucks, and he starts going to school at night so that he can be qualified to get a job that pays $40k / year.

Now he's making 40k, but he sees all the people who make 100k driving around in nice cars and buying houses, etc. He's jealous, and starts doing whatever he can to advance in his career and move toward that goal.

The Bengals are the homeless, and can't understand why anyone would be unhappy with $10/hour. The Eagles are making 80k, but have realized that they just don't have the skillset to reach their 100k goal. Getting rid of McNabb for Kolb is their way of taking a job for slightly less money that maybe has a higher ceiling. Without making the move, they'd be stuck at 80k. Now, they'll either be stuck at 70k, or in a couple of years be at 120k, and buying sweet cars and banging hot gold digging sluts.

It's all relative.

[chestnutz]

People always say how Philly fans bitched about McNabb since 99. BBTV said it best, you only hear the bitching. Eagles fans loved McNabb when he was in his prime, and I'm sure still have loads of respect for the guy. Fact is he's past his prime, he's injury prone, and the Eagles have an offense that's built for the future, to last 5 or 6 years. You can't have an offense that's built for the future if your QB has 1 or 2 good years left in him. They probably wouldn't have resigned him after his contract expires next year anyways, so it's better to get value now. I've always been a huge McNabb fan, and I hope the guy has a great end to his career. Just not against the Eagles

I never liked Kolb, from when they first drafted him, thought it was a waste of a pick. But when I saw him play last year I started to lose some of that doubt. I see why they drafted him in the first place, and I can't help but think this was the Eagles plan for their QB situation all along (besides the Vick part). I have high hopes for Kolb this season, although I expect a shaky start.

I'm pretty happy with the Eagles offseason so far. Glad they got rid of Westbrook (they lost at the end of the season once Westbrook came back, because they abandoned the McCoy-Weaver-Vick rushing attack that worked so well. Glad McNabb is gone (though I must admit I'd rather it have been to Oakland, but a 2nd rounder and a pick next year is solid value). Only thing I'm not happy about is Brown being traded away, I don't think they got much in return for him.

[BBTV]

Yeah, people always had his back and bitched that they needed to get him better receivers, needed to allow him to call audibles, and needed to improve their running game for him. Everything really started to go down hill when he effed up the Super Bowl, and then handled the TO thing like a total baby. That showed his true colors, and people realized that he really was super sensitive, insecure, immature, and just not mentally tough. Then he went down with a sports hernia (that at least a few people have questioned the legitimacy of, or at least the severity of, considering the timing of it), then tears his ACL (and the team does better with Jeff Garcia under center), then plays poorly the next year (and continues his puzzling comments) (NOTE - I think everyone was willing to dismiss his poor play as a result of not being fully back from the ACL), then plays poorly the following year, but the team somehow gets to the NFC title game, where he plays terribly in the first half, then throws a horrible pass in the fourth quarter to end their last minute comeback (and then promptly explains that he wasn't playing defense in the fourth quarter), and then plays so-so the following year, until the end, where he takes a total crap in the last two games against one of their biggest rivals, on national TV, while playing an air guitar.

From 1999 - 2/6/2005, he was our boy. Since then... not so much.

EDIT:

The Skins may have offered Albert Haynesworth:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Report_Skins_offered_Eagles_Haynesworth.html

[See Red]

Yeah, when I saw him playing the air guitar I knew for certain that they were about to get destroyed in that game.

[Saintsfan]

Of course it was a good era. Does that mean you have to keep a guy forever even if it's clear he can't win and he's holding back your future? It's not like they're trading a 25-year-old mobile player who can carry a team.

Here is my take on the whole thing. Its about as even a deal as you're gonna get for a guy with one year left on his contract. Its a big risk from the Eagles to trade a franchise player to a division rival, and it heaps tons of pressure on Kolb or a combination of Kolb and Vick. (My sense is that maybe Vick is more part of the mix than anyone might guess at this point.)

But as for 'holding back your future', lets look at some teams who have lost franchise QBs. 49ers lose Montana, Young comes in as does well initially, but lets face it the decline of the 49ers dates back to Montana going. (Maybe even Bill Walsh leaving). The Rams get rid of Warner, with a young talented guy waiting in the wings (Bulger) and know where are they? Have the Dolphins or Broncos been the same since Marino or Elway left. Were the Colts or the Patriots much before Manning or Brady went under center (and lets remember that Bledsoe was a good QB for the Pats before Brady, and didn't have much success). Maybe, maybe, Kolb is a Brady whose been learning his trade patiently behind a good QB, but looking at the history of the game, the odds are against it.

[BBTV]

Here is my take on the whole thing.

There's not a take that I care about less. However...

Joe Montana won Super Bowls. Kurt Warner won a Super Bowl. John Elway won Super Bowls. Manning won a Super Bowl. Brady won Super Bowls.

Dononvan McNabb got nervous and threw up in the Super Bowl.

[The_Admiral]

Steve Young won a Super Bowl with an all-time great team. Some decline.

[Saintsfan]

Steve Young won a Super Bowl with an all-time great team. Some decline.

True enough, but some would argue that the decline had already started at that point.

I guess my point is that really high quality QBs are not easy to come across, and when you have one its not always the most sensible to get rid of one when you have one.

But as I say Kolb could be a better QB, if the Iggles are lucky.

[The_Admiral]

Steve Young won a Super Bowl with an all-time great team. Some decline.

True enough, but some would argue that the decline had already started at that point.

Idiots would argue that.

[epper]

I think the Eagles will regret this. I hope McNabb destroys them twice a year until he retires.

That being said, Jason Campbell would look great in a Bills uniform right about now.

[jkrdevil]

Steve Young won a Super Bowl with an all-time great team. Some decline.

True enough, but some would argue that the decline had already started at that point.

But that is not what happened. The 1994 49ers were one of the best teams in league history. It wasn't a team on the decline that got lucky on one last chance. What happened to the 49ers were cap problems as a result of the salary cap being instituted and Young being forced to retire do to concussion problems.

[Sport]

I totally get your point (the Eagles have had a lot of lean years too) but you have to understand that after a while, it gets old (yes, I know that makes me sound like an ingrate.) But it's true. It's not right, but the playoffs and playoff wins just become expected, and you start to demand progression. It's not much different than in any aspect in life.

A guy who is laid off, can't pay his rent, and is facing homelessness is going to be evnyous of the guy working at McDonalds for $10 / hour.

He applies, and gets hired. After a while, he realizes that $10 sucks, and he starts going to school at night so that he can be qualified to get a job that pays $40k / year.

Now he's making 40k, but he sees all the people who make 100k driving around in nice cars and buying houses, etc. He's jealous, and starts doing whatever he can to advance in his career and move toward that goal.

The Bengals are the homeless, and can't understand why anyone would be unhappy with $10/hour. The Eagles are making 80k, but have realized that they just don't have the skillset to reach their 100k goal. Getting rid of McNabb for Kolb is their way of taking a job for slightly less money that maybe has a higher ceiling. Without making the move, they'd be stuck at 80k. Now, they'll either be stuck at 70k, or in a couple of years be at 120k, and buying sweet cars and banging hot gold digging sluts.

It's all relative.

To continue our discussion from last night, this analogy makes more sense of it. However, it can go the other way. If the Eagles have 3 or 4 years outside the playoffs, some losing seasons and some poor quarterback play then it's possible for you (the Eagles fanbase) to fall to that $10 an hour mcdonald's job where at that point the McNabb/Reid era will look pretty good. I mean, how many times have you heard somebody say "I took the winning years for granted".