NHL doesn't like anyone but English Canadians?

[Magnus]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2010/10/25/sp-nhl-discrimination-book.html

[The_Admiral]

"I never seen Quebec or no Yugoslaviastan produce a real Steve Yzerman type."

[BigMac12]

I never seen no Yugoslaviastan produce a Steve Yzerman type.

Don Cherry should be arrested for crimes against fasion.

Boy, somebody's really bitter.

[The_Admiral]

Well, that was fun. Anyway, the article raises some good points. I think there certainly is something to the NHL being an English Canadians' club, or at least an old boys' club which comprises English Canadians. Of the four leagues, the NHL has to have the fewest forward thinkers involved in its hockey-ops departments, the fewest market inefficiencies exploited, the fewest new ideas tried. I think it's clear that a lot of important decisions are being made by an insular and sclerotic bunch of hockey lifers who happen to be English Canadians who still subscribe to mindnumbingly simple taxonomies as "Quebec makes little pansy-asses and goalies while the West makes big lumbering defensemen; Ontario in the middle is all things to all people." There have to be so many categorically awful, unimaginative, tired old scouting departments in the league. There's no other reason why the Red Wings can keep figuring out how to draft All-Stars from Europe in the seventh round or not at all while everyone else shoots their respective wads on Hard-Working Saskatchewan Dirt Farmers in the first round.

Additionally, while the unintended consequences of the CBA have indeed frozen out a lot of mid-level veterans in favor of excessively green rookies, I'm not sure to what end putting a team back in Quebec City would get them back to work again. If Quebec City gets a team back, it'll probably be an existing one, and the league is still probably too stupid to fix its broken cap system, so none of these KHL exiles would be playing there anyway.

[GeorgesL]

..."Quebec makes little pansy-asses...

Oh, that is SOOOO not cool!

[JQK]

...Quebec makes little pansy-asses...

QFT

[IceCap]

The article raises some very good points on the recruiting end of the spectrum. Mr. Sirois loses me, however, on the QUEBEC SHOULD HAVE ITS OWN TEAM point. Sorry, no. Quebec was only given honorary "nation within a nation" status because Harper and the Tories were trying to raise their numbers in la belle province. Quebec, last I checked, is still a Canadian province. We're still one nation, we have one national team.

Other then the blatant undertones of separatism, however, Mr. Sirois does raise valid points concerning the ethnic/cultural make-up of NHLers.

[The_Admiral]

Everyone quoting "Quebec makes little pansy-asses" sorta missed my point, that or they confirmed that everyone would indeed prefer to fall back on these archetypes rather than do any real hard scouting. Ten NHL teams don't scout Quebec! How do you not scout Quebec?!?

I have mixed feelings on giving Quebec its own team in international play. On one hand, if Scotland and England field separate soccer teams in FIFA, then having Quebec field its own IIHF team is a reasonable analogue. On the other hand, I'd rather not encourage separatism in any way.

[IceCap]

Everyone quoting "Quebec makes little pansy-asses" sorta missed my point, that or they confirmed that everyone would indeed prefer to fall back on these archetypes rather than do any real hard scouting. Ten NHL teams don't scout Quebec! How do you not scout Quebec?!?

I have mixed feelings on giving Quebec its own team in international play. On one hand, if Scotland and England field separate soccer teams in FIFA, then having Quebec field its own IIHF team is a reasonable analogue. On the other hand, I'd rather not encourage separatism in any way.

I would consider the separate "national" teams from the UK in select sports to be anomalies.

[The_Admiral]

Right, and so would a Quebec National Team. They're similar situations to me because Britain--more than anywhere else, at least--is to soccer as Canada is to hockey, and also has the problem of a "distinct nation" under its aegis. I don't think we'd have to worry about a slippery slope if Quebec were allowed to form its own team: you probably wouldn't see Swedish-speaking Finns try to set up their own team, nor would you see Alberta or Newfoundland try to get their own teams. It could be intriguing to see a Quebecois team, but everyone knows they'd just be a bunch of visor-wearing sallies in front of a really good goalie. lol

I feel like Brian Burke and the Sutters have gotten a lot of slack with their respective teams because despite being poorly constructed, they're Canadian teams with mostly Canadian (or at least North American) rosters. Obviously, people are gritting their teeth over how much the Leafs and Flames have disappointed, but at least they haven't been disappointing with Detroitian menageries of Swedes and Slavs. It's good, honest Canadian sucking, hardworking sucking that gets to the rink early and leaves late and knows how to suck together as a team.

[Gordie]

..."Quebec makes little pansy-asses...

Oh, that is SOOOO not cool!

Bonjour?

[Sodboy13]

It's good, honest Canadian sucking, hardworking sucking that gets to the rink early and leaves late and knows how to suck together as a team.

Hey, it worked for Graham James.

[The_Admiral]

Well, no one's topping that.

[IceCap]

Right, and so would a Quebec National Team. They're similar situations to me because Britain--more than anywhere else, at least--is to soccer as Canada is to hockey, and also has the problem of a "distinct nation" under its aegis.

I think you missed my point. The separate national teams for the constitute countries of the UK were formed when the concept of international competition was still very new. By now they've been around for so long that it's just easier to keep them separate then force them together into one team. Even then it only goes so far, as the UK fields a united national team for the Olympics. Had Quebec been granted a separate team in the 1890s I'm sure we'd all accept it. We're a little late into the game (pardon the pun) to start one up now, however.

I don't think we'd have to worry about a slippery slope if Quebec were allowed to form its own team: you probably wouldn't see Swedish-speaking Finns try to set up their own team, nor would you see Alberta or Newfoundland try to get their own teams. It could be intriguing to see a Quebecois team, but everyone knows they'd just be a bunch of visor-wearing sallies in front of a really good goalie. lol

I'm not concerned about that slippery slope as much as I am concerned about the one that encourages separatism. It's one thing for politicians to throw the province a bone to score political points. That "nation within a nation" stuff didn't change the way Quebec interacts within confederation. When you give Quebec a separate national team, however, you're giving separatists something tangible and legitimate that validates their desire to break away from Canada. I mean what comes next after a separate hockey team? A separate seat in the UN? A separate seat at the table in regards to NATO, NAFTA, and the Commonwealth? Sorry, I don't like the road all of this leads down.

Besides, what better way to curtail separatist sympathies then to showcase a team of Canadians, from all provinces, working together to achieve victory?

I feel like Brian Burke and the Sutters have gotten a lot of slack with their respective teams because despite being poorly constructed, they're Canadian teams with mostly Canadian (or at least North American) rosters. Obviously, people are gritting their teeth over how much the Leafs and Flames have disappointed, but at least they haven't been disappointing with Detroitian menageries of Swedes and Slavs. It's good, honest Canadian sucking, hardworking sucking that gets to the rink early and leaves late and knows how to suck together as a team.

Good honest Canadian sucking? Gold medals not counted I suppose.

Look, every Stanley Cup championship team has had a majority of Canadian players. The Tampa Bay Lightning and the Anaheim Ducks had more Canadiens on their roster then the Calgary Flames and Ottawa Senators. While I agree that there are legitimate points to Mr. Sirois' argument that English Canadians are over-represented in the NHL at the expense of French Canadians and foreigners I do think you're really stretching with this Brian Burke and the Sutters stuff.

BTW the Leafs have seven points on the year so far. Playoffs? Probably not. The team's improving though.

[DelayedPenalty]

A retired NHLer says the league discriminates against players who aren't English-speaking Canadians and he alleges in a new book that teams systematically shut the door on others.

Bob Sirois writes in his book, Discrimination in the NHL: Quebec Hockey Players Sidelined, that Quebecers, Europeans and Americans all face systemic bias in the league.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2010/10/25/sp-nhl-discrimination-book.html#ixzz13UyStQAU

He's just bitter because no one has ever heard of him!

According to Wikipedia...

Playing career

Originally drafted by the Philadelphia Flyers in 1974, Sirois played in only four games with the Flyers in over two seasons before he was traded to the Washington Capitals. He spent five seasons with the Capitals before leaving the NHL to play one season in Switzerland, and then in the AHL the year after that before retiring from active play in 1982.

[OMMF]

English Canadians are over-represented in the NHL at the expense of French Canadians and foreigners

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/news/news-singleview/article/there-is-no-anti-french-bias.html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=389baaf380

In 2007-08, the most recent year for which Hockey Canada has stats, there were 480,656 players from British Columbia to Newfoundland. Of that number, 94,001 were from Quebec (19.6 per cent) and 204,769 from Ontario (42.6 per cent). There were 489 Canadians in the NHL that year, 71 (14.5 per cent) from Quebec and 189 (38.7 per cent) from Ontario.

In short, there are more than double the number of hockey players from Ontario than Quebec, even though the general population of the two provinces is about the same. Ratio to population is a meaningless measurement, and ratio to hockey players ? the relevant variable ? clearly indicates no bias whatsoever.

[IceCap]

English Canadians are over-represented in the NHL at the expense of French Canadians and foreigners

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/news/news-singleview/article/there-is-no-anti-french-bias.html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=389baaf380

In 2007-08, the most recent year for which Hockey Canada has stats, there were 480,656 players from British Columbia to Newfoundland. Of that number, 94,001 were from Quebec (19.6 per cent) and 204,769 from Ontario (42.6 per cent). There were 489 Canadians in the NHL that year, 71 (14.5 per cent) from Quebec and 189 (38.7 per cent) from Ontario.

In short, there are more than double the number of hockey players from Ontario than Quebec, even though the general population of the two provinces is about the same. Ratio to population is a meaningless measurement, and ratio to hockey players ? the relevant variable ? clearly indicates no bias whatsoever.

Always a pleasure, never a surprise.

Anyway when 10 NHL clubs don't even bother scouting Quebec it's indicative of unfair bias against that province's players.

[OMMF]

English Canadians are over-represented in the NHL at the expense of French Canadians and foreigners

http://www.iihf.com/....html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=389baaf380

In 2007-08, the most recent year for which Hockey Canada has stats, there were 480,656 players from British Columbia to Newfoundland. Of that number, 94,001 were from Quebec (19.6 per cent) and 204,769 from Ontario (42.6 per cent). There were 489 Canadians in the NHL that year, 71 (14.5 per cent) from Quebec and 189 (38.7 per cent) from Ontario.

In short, there are more than double the number of hockey players from Ontario than Quebec, even though the general population of the two provinces is about the same. Ratio to population is a meaningless measurement, and ratio to hockey players – the relevant variable – clearly indicates no bias whatsoever.

Always a pleasure, never a surprise.

Anyway when 10 NHL clubs don't even bother scouting Quebec it's indicative of unfair bias against that province's players.

If you say so.

I think it's funny that he thinks that having a Quebec City team in the NHL means more Quebec players.

Sirois also thinks the return of the Quebec Nordiques could help more locals break into the league. In particular, it would mean more jobs for the grinders who are often overlooked and wind up playing in Europe.

"It would create the same rivalry between Quebec and Montreal, and the fans' association with local players is big in this province," Sirois said.

Even assuming that is true, it would only mean jobs for people who shouldn't be in the league anyway. As it is, there are too many teams with too many unskilled players in the league. As to getting locals in the league, Montreal only has 3 players on it from Quebec (and 4 from the US) so there is no reason to think that just because another team exists there that more players will come from there as a result.

[The_Admiral]

I wonder which ten teams don't scout Quebec. The Coyotes probably don't have a receptionist, let alone scouts, so that's one. The Blackhawks have a real paucity of French Canadians against a wealth of English Canadians, so I could see them being another one.

[IceCap]

English Canadians are over-represented in the NHL at the expense of French Canadians and foreigners

http://www.iihf.com/....html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=389baaf380

In 2007-08, the most recent year for which Hockey Canada has stats, there were 480,656 players from British Columbia to Newfoundland. Of that number, 94,001 were from Quebec (19.6 per cent) and 204,769 from Ontario (42.6 per cent). There were 489 Canadians in the NHL that year, 71 (14.5 per cent) from Quebec and 189 (38.7 per cent) from Ontario.

In short, there are more than double the number of hockey players from Ontario than Quebec, even though the general population of the two provinces is about the same. Ratio to population is a meaningless measurement, and ratio to hockey players – the relevant variable – clearly indicates no bias whatsoever.

Always a pleasure, never a surprise.

Anyway when 10 NHL clubs don't even bother scouting Quebec it's indicative of unfair bias against that province's players.

If you say so.

Why else wouldn't you scout Quebec? Hell, even if your perception of players from Quebec was based only on broad stereotypes you would think you would scout the province if only for the goalies.

If you can think of another viable reason why 1/3 of the league wouldn't scout Quebec outside of bias then I'll consider it. Right now bias is the most likely candidate for why teams won't even look at players from Quebec.

I think it's funny that he thinks that having a Quebec City team in the NHL means more Quebec players.

Depends on which team is moved. If it's one of the teams that does not scout the province currently they may decide to do so once they've set up base in the province. Questions of nationality aside, though, I will agree that Quebec City is near the bottom of cities that don't have a NHL team but should. If they get that rink up, that's another story.

I wonder which ten teams don't scout Quebec. The Coyotes probably don't have a receptionist, let alone scouts, so that's one. The Blackhawks have a real paucity of French Canadians against a wealth of English Canadians, so I could see them being another one.

The Blackhawks? Not exactly your best example of how under-qualified English Canadian dirt farmers are stealing spots from more deserving French Canadian boys