ClipArt vs. Art

[shiznit1083]

I should clarify my point about clipart...it's ok to use as long as you modify it enough that it looks discernably different from the original. That's the policy we use at my job with our extensive stock photo library.

That's it, down to a tee.

[Avenger]

The fact of the matter is that clipart will never get you exactly where you want to go if you're designing a custom logo. Even if you can find some clipart that doesn't suck (which is extremely rare), there's no clever way to use it, and because of that fact that you are trying to communicate a very specific idea with something entirely generic, you're going to fall short. Does it make you a cheater? Not really. Does it help you become a better artist or allow you to make excellent work? Again, not really.

And MoJoTo, it's all about geometry, man. For intance, on the Gigantic logo, the fat part of the oil drop is a circle, then I used right angles based on the center point of the circle to determine what angle the lines that create the point should be and where they should connect to the circle. For the sunray effect, it's all about 10 degrees rotation and 10% scale of the ray next to it. It not as tedious as it probably sounds, but it's the only way I know of to make something geometricly based look professional in the end.

[paynomind]

I'm not entirely sure my opinion is desired, but i'll clarify just in case.

Clip art is there for the office Admin to use in her PowerPOint presentation, so it doesn't look so boring. Grabbing a section of a clip art piece and submitting it as YOUR logo is what I have a problem with.

All of us, to some extent have taken a design done by someone else and used it as an aspect of our work. The big difference in this (an in life) is one simple thing: EXPECTATIONS

When the contest is; create a third jersey for an existing team - one can expect the real, actual logo to be at the center of a uniguely colored, or shaped jersey. If the contest is; make a uniform set for the state of Georgia - then one can reasonably expect the state of georgia outline to be used, in either clip-art or traced form.

Expectations - let me use a personal example or two. I did the logo and uniforms for shiznicks college team, TTU. When I presented them to him, I mentioned that I was inspired by the Red Bull logo. After saying that, any similaritys would be expected, and thereby acceptable. Truth be told, the logos are quite a bit different, and i maybe could have 'gotten away' with not mentioning the Red Bull logo. But, setting the expectation is important, and giving credit should be done.

Oh, and for my Gigantic Logo, I copied a map of texas into illustrator, and traced a simle outline of it, and pulled some curves and such to make a clean shape. Does outlining the real shape constitute creating it, or copying it? Dunno. Texas is the shape it is.

Overall, I appologize for really stirring the pot to begin with. I struggled with several concepts in illustrator, some on paper, then ended up with a clean concept that I was proud of, after hours of work. I then saw votes going to concepts that I felt weren't original. I should have taken my own advice and used PM, i suppose.

Although, this conversation is a good one.

To sum up, i'd say, use what you want, but give credit if you outright took some large aspect of your submission. To be safe, mention it even if you altered it significantly.

Thats my opinion. If you dont like it, then...

paynomind

[gojetsgo]

While I think it takes alot of skill to trace an outline of texas into illustrator, it's not really making original work IMO, and isn't all that different from taking the original piece. I mean it's TRACING! We all learned that shortcut to easy art in elementary school where a 6 year old kid could draw like MC Escher (my favourite artist by the way). But when you need the state of texas there is no originality in it anyway, regardless of how much effort you put into it (tracing or just copying).

I don't think effort should be a factor in this discussion. In reality, you are rarely judged on the effort you put in. You are judged on the end outcome. In school, in sports, in life, some people put little effort in and get a good result, while some people bust there ass and get nowhere.

Just copyting the state of texas is fair game, in my opinion. Just because it's easier doesn't make it cheating.

[Phil]

I'm not ashamed to admit that some of the first logos I designed were heavily influenced by clipart (Printmaster Platinum 7.0 clipart, in fact). Most of those logos were fulfilling requests by people just wanting something quick and dirty for their fantasy team, and at that point, quick and dirty was my specialty.

Just like a learning woodworker starts out with a How-To book and a template, clipart can get you started down the road.

However as you improve as a designer, clipart becomes less and less necessary. To remain reliant on, and to get better at using clipart when designing logos, is like riding a tricycle. You may get really good, but it's still nothing much to be proud of.

This is not to disparage anyone who makes use of clipart in logos, but eventually you have to cut the cord and start doing things more originally.

...and by clip-art, I don't mean shapes (geometric, geographic, or otherwise), I mean small complex images.

[lucky]

So is the original surveyor of Texas gonna sue all our behinds?

[MJWalker45]

I don't like to use clip art, especially when trying to draw up a logo for myself. However, sometimes it may assist you in completing the drawing. I don't think it's a big deal as long as the clip art is not passed off as an origional creation.

[chapi]

how about using cliparts of baseballs footballs basketballs and base ball bats?? is it wrong??

and how about taking a photo (of google) and then modifing it in photoshop ??

[Frenchie]

ok. this is my take on it. as most of this community knows, im in the middle of hosting a contest to desighn a hockey uni for the fictional state of oceania from the book 1984. the only image a desighner has to go off of when desighning his/her entry is oceania's flag. of course we can expect the main crest of mostr of the entries will be the "ingsoc" logo. i would have no problem if someone just cut and pasted that logo directly of the flag for their entry. if a designer whants to draw the "ingsoc" logo from scratch, then all the power to him. however i wont call someone a cheater if their logo comes directly from the flag.

also, in the state/province hockey uniform thread, i posted a concept for team ontario (c&p). also my signiture recently replaced this (c&p). in both instinces i used the three maple leaf desighn from a rejected desighn for a canadian flag.

just because someone dosnt draw every aspect of their logo themselves dosnt make them a cheater. now if someone took a clip art pic of a wildcat, recolored it, and presented it as his idea for a bobcats logo, then thats cheeting. however there is an easaly identified line between that and what i mentioned earlier.

it's interesting, that you quote this maple leaf arrangement as a rejected Canadian flag as it is also an integral part of the Province of Ontario (who I hear is very "sticky" about the use of its copyrighted elements...)'s code of arms and flag...

My point?

We can't always trace down the origin of symbols we like/use to its origins.

It's all fun and game until someone loses an arm...

So let's keep the creative juice flowing....