2013 NFL Off-Season Thread

[BlueSky]

No sweat. I'd be happy to talk to you further about the marriage subject on the Lounge, if you'd like.

Thanks but we're good. We've discussed it before and there's a difference between our positions that isn't going to change. You're all for gay marriage; I think civil unions with full legal status is a reasonable compromise. Neither of us will determine the ultimate outcome so we're both left to see what happens.

[Gothamite]

What, you didn't file an amicus brief?

[BlueSky]

I wouldn't know an amicus brief from Atticus Finch.

[The_Admiral]

You're all for gay marriage; I think civil unions with full legal status is a reasonable compromise.

If they're equal, why do they have to be separate?

[BlueSky]

You're all for gay marriage; I think civil unions with full legal status is a reasonable compromise.

If they're equal, why do they have to be separate?

Not going there.

[The_Admiral]

Then cut the crap and say everyone deserves the same rights under the same name.

[BlueSky]

Who appointed you master of the universe? I have my opinion, It's apparently different from yours. That doesn't make you right. I'll never change your mind and you'll never change mine. Finally, this isn't the place to discuss it one way or another.

At least I respect your opinion. You should try that sometime.

[The_Admiral]

Actually, as someone who did have his mind changed several years ago, I can say that you can't close the door on anything. I know you're a conservative Christian white male from the South, and old habits die hard there, but trust me, you'll feel a lot better being on the right side of history.

[Lee.]

Although this is delightful to behold, let's get back to NFL offseason news, notes and ramblings.

Take it to PM, or drop it altogether.

Thanks

[BlueSky]

Dude, you're a little full of yourself. You're coming across like a condescending jackass. You don't know s*** about me so save your presumptuous BS for someone else.

Please.

(We're very polite here in the South.)

@ Lee, posted before I saw your post. Consider it done.

[BBTV]

Oh how different this conversation would be had Bobby Hebert ever come out.

[Kramerica Industries]

"The quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons is Bobby Hebert. No "r" which I find fascinating. You know it's Herbert h-e-r-b-e-r-t, Hebert h-e-b-e-r-t. "Hebert" it's a fun name to pronounce. Try and say it Hebert. Take a shot."

[oldschoolvikings]

Oh how different this conversation would be had Bobby Hebert ever come out.

Its never too late.

[OnWis97]

No, no, I meant that Gay people in general are still fighting to gain their right to marry one another, which is a basic civil right that they're being denied of.

Where exactly is this right defined? Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing the issue of gay marriage, I'm asking in what law or document it says that marriage (gay or otherwise) is a guaranteed right. People say that all the time but where is it coming from? Seems if it was that cut and dried we wouldn't need the Supreme Court to figure it out.

There is also that it is legal to fire someone for being gay in 29 states (http://www.hrc.org/campaigns/employment-non-discrimination-act, among several sources)

Anyway, I don't think the NFL has a great deal of connection to issues of legal equality. But it is important in that one of the key "macho" segments of our society can play a role in people's attitudes, particularly young males. If football player(s) come out it could be key in leading toward acceptance.

For years, we've talked about "the first active gay player in a team sport", how that player would have to be well respected and a star. I'd never thought of having multiple players come out simultaneously. That's brilliant. It goes further toward normalization and, most importantly, spreads the scrutiny much more thinly.

When I think of the attitude even 10 years ago, I do see progress being made...

[BlueSky]

So we're to accept as unquestioned truth that there are four gay NFL players considering coming out? Have you thought that through? If they're being "talked to" about coming out, that means that others know they're gay. Yet there are no leaks and no one has any idea who these guys are or even what teams they play for. Doesn't any of that strike you as the least bit odd?

And before any more admirals start up with their ridiculous assumptions and veiled insults, don't assume I'm against this for the mere fact that I'm questioning what's being said. As stated many, many times in various threads, I'm all for acceptance and will be glad when race, gender, orientation, or whatever else doesn't even enter people's minds when they interact with others. This just seems very, very fishy.

[Kramerica Industries]

I'm all for acceptance and will be glad when race, gender, orientation, or whatever else doesn't even enter people's minds when they interact with others

For better or worse, this is not happening at any point during any of our lifetimes. There is far more work to be done than have four random NFL players co-coordinating their coming out.

[Eye]

I remember when BlueSky used to be cool. He could relate anything back to the Saints, which was kind of neat.

[NJTank]

Just like being gay, coming out is personal and if someone wants to come out than fine, but there should never be pressure put on anyone who is not comfortable to come out. It seems now that pressure is being put on the players to come out and that is not a good thing.

[BlueSky]

I remember when BlueSky used to be cool. He could relate anything back to the Saints, which was kind of neat.

Even the best get stumped now and again you know.

[Gothamite]

So we're to accept as unquestioned truth that there are four gay NFL players considering coming out? Have you thought that through? If they're being "talked to" about coming out, that means that others know they're gay. Yet there are no leaks and no one has any idea who these guys are or even what teams they play for. Doesn't any of that strike you as the least bit odd?

For the sake of argument, what it would mean to the sport and to our country, why shouldn't we presume the reports are true?

We talk about rumors all the time here. I can't see any reason on Earth why this subject should be any different.