A F L Commissioner talks expansion...

[Brian in Boston]

As part of his "State of the League" address during "Arena Bowl Week", AFL Commissioner David Baker discussed expansion and his vision for the growth of the sport.

While being careful not to commit a team to any of the cities just yet, Baker did mention that Boston, Cleveland, Miami, Nashville and St. Louis are the leading candidates for AFL expansion.

Baker also revealed his long-term goal for Arena Football: a three-tiered pyramid structure comprised of a 28 to 32-team AFL, a minor league of 100 or more af2 franchises, and the establishment of a nationwide Youth Arena Football program.

The Arena Football League is also considering moving its championship game, the Arena Bowl, to a neutral site in the future. Baker mentioned that Las Vegas and New Orleans would be tremendously attractive locales.

Brian in Boston

[DEAD!]

It's about time they should have a neutral site game for the ArenaBowl. I'm thinking the expansion clubs will be in Nashville and St. Louis.

[habsfannova]

From game drawn up to stable, growing league in 20 years. Not bad at all.

[nitroseed]

Sweet merciful crap. 100 or more minor league AF2 teams?? You did say AF2 and not ABA, right?

[puckcool22]

they need an ea sports AFL2005

[IowaFan26]

they need an ea sports AFL2005

Now that would be awesome.

[Frylock]

While being careful not to commit a team to any of the cities just yet, Baker did mention that Boston, Cleveland, Miami, Nashville and St. Louis are the leading candidates for AFL expansion.

Oy vey...

As I've stated before on the boards here, I've been an ArenaBall fan from way back. I can not believe that Baker would want to put a team back in Miami. A market that failed miserably twice. I mean, first of all, the Bobcats played in an arena with "yards" that measured at two feet. Then, the arena got sold to the local Jehovah's Witnessess (true!) and the team moved to the National Car Rental Arena, and IIRC, they only lasted two years there. What a mess.

Without a doubt, Nashville needs the Kats back. They had decent support, but lousy ownership. Gotta fill that void ASAP.

And again, the Northwest gets passed over without any consideration...

[Geoff]

I thought they were joking one time when I looked at my Pensacola Barracudas (Defunct, AF2) program and it's team map, that included possible expansion teams, totaled 96 teams.

[Discrim]

i'll support the Rush, but it'd be nice to have a Milwaukee team again. for the moment that's a dream, so go Rush. looks like they're following the NFL blueprint except slightly faster thanks to opportunities that weren't there when the NFL was 20 (e.g. TV deals, a league to model itself after, a morality issue)

[eqtmgr]

As someone who worked in both leagues, I can say with complete honesty that what Commissioner Baker said is not a typo.

When af2 was originally conceived back in 1998, it was the desire of the league's brass to start small, in this case 16 teams in 2000, then to massively expand. The goal was to have an af2 team in almost 100 markets by 2005. The reason for this was two fold. First, they wanted to expand the game so that it would cultivate talent in every facet of the team's operation from the players to the Genreal Manager. The second has to do with the original reason why ArenaBall was created in the first place. To give smaller markets with an arena with sizeable capacity to creat a new revenue stream during hockey's off season.

In 2000, af2 began with 16 teams scattered primarily thoughout the southeast maninly becuase they bought the XFL. No not the WWE version of if, the indoo version. The "original" XFL was created to give football fans in the south, mainly in ECHL markets, the chance to have a professional football franchise when hockey season ended. There were eight teams that were supposed to participate in the league's innargural year of 2000.

When the brass in the AFL's office in Chicago git wind of this, they decided to quickly move forward with af2. They purchased the XFL from their owners with the premise that they would be granted operating rights in af2. And as you now know, the rest is history.

Getting back to the AFL's expansion, the league has wanted to place a team in Nashville since they moved to Atlanta in 2002. Nashville was a thriving market since thier enception. As some of you may know, Tennessee is a thriving hotbed of football. The folks there love the game. Any chance for football, especially professional, they'll jump at. And they did. They summarily sold out Gaylord every opening they had. It was a great atmosphere.

Sadly, they were getting hosed by the arena's managment. I cannot remember the figures; but I will say that their fiancial losses per season numbered in $5 million + range yearly.

To retort about the Miami situation, yes there were two failures. The Hooters, who were the New Orleans Night (who I also used to work for), had poor ownership and a poor arena deal. The Bobcats also had poor ownership, not once but twice in thier short tenure. When I worked for the Storm in 2001, since they were in our division, we played them twice. When we went to Sunrise and I saw the NCRC, I loved the place. The only sad part, there were not many fans in the seats.

I think the problem with that was their extreme lack of marketing. They mainly stuck to marketing the team in Ft. Lauderdale and Hollywood. Our hotel thought was sweet. I had an ocean view and it was right on the beach. I cannot remember the name. However, I can tell you that it was right down the street from a Hooters that is in what seems to be a tree house. By the way, there actually were three Miami franchises in AFL history.

The first was used during the two "test seasons" in 1985 and 86 when they used the name "Miami Vice" for one of the four teams that played at the Rosemont Horizon. And you know the other two. By the way, the reason they were called the Hooters is becuase the team was owned by the company. At that time, Hooters was a major sponsor of the AFL and they thought that it would be cool to have them do that.

Lastly, on to the potential expansion cities. I would be nice to see Washington back in after all of these seasons not having a team. The Commandos were well received in Landover and did a great job. But just like many others that had come and gone, financing and ownership was not very good and they went the way of the dodo. Having D.S. as an owner will add to the league's visablility, unless Bon Jovi does something stupid like pulling out of Phily (which will NEVER happen).

Adding Boston is a little tricky becuase the AFL has not had a great history in New England. Their first franchise played in Springfield back in the early 90's as the New England Steamrollers. Although the 'Rollers were a good team, at the gate they fell woefully short. They then tried it again when the Mass Maurders came a callin' this time in Harford. And again, the same fate befell the the Maurders (they were the Detroit Drive). Them the SeaWolves came a'callin as they moved to Harford from NYC were they were the City Hawks and played at MSG. The Wolves eventually moved to Florida and became the Bobcats, and well you know the rest.

So do I think that Boston will be viable? Who knows. And now on the STL. "Da Lou" had it's shot in 94 and 95 with the Stampeed. They were not a good and neither was their ownership. But this time around, better ownership and a better deal, you never know.

My honest opinions, in the AFL you'll see STL, Washington, Boston, and maybe even Miami this time. That'll give the league the divisional and geographical balance that it's screaming for. As far as "the Decue" is concerned, I'm going to say that they'll lose about four teams and add several more as many teams in the NIFL are considering moving to a better league. My opinon on that is for another post.

[RyanB06]

For the record, the Mass Maurauders played out of Worcester.

I went to a couple of Seawolves games when they were here, and I enjoyed myself immensely. Too bad there weren't more people at the games; we'd probably still have a team.

[EDIT: Typo.]

[Discrim]

eqtmgr, gotta correct a little something, the seawolves actually moved to Toronto, played two seasons as the Phantoms and then went under. it's a shame, they had a decent team.

expanding a little on my post, as the AFL nears completion of its second decade, the formula's there. the first dynasty, the Detroit Drive, came and went. the TB Storm and Orlando Predators fill the bill of Packers-Bears. the Carolina Cobras are perfect in the role of the Cardinals as said before, stability isn't completely here yet but is on its way. This next idea is a pipe dream, but i figure it would go a long way. The Arena champ vs the Super Bowl winner or NFL Allstars. a win would force many a man to eat their words cus many Arena players can play the outdoor game; not every NFL player can play Arenaball effectively.

[Geoff]

The four NIFL teams thinking about jumping ship are: Fort Wayne Freedom,

Lexington Horsemen, Show Me (St. Charles) Believers, and the Omaha Beef. It was origionally going ot just be LEX and FTW but the other two decided they might try.

[pking34@comcast.net]

This will sound like heresy,but,speaking as a Nashvillian,the Nashville investors need to consider the possibility of AFL2 in Nashville.Sadly,the same management that "hosed" the Nashville Kats (the NHL Nashville Predators) still control the GEC. The ancient Municipal Auditorium is not a big-league level facility,and it is doubtful that Nashville's taxpayers would look seriously at building Nashville's second new arena in less than a decade unless it meant bringing the NBA to town as well as the AFL.However,both Belmont University and Lipscomb University have recently built beautiful new arenas for their mid-major Division 1 basketball programs,both of which seat about 5000 fans.The ABA Nashville Rhythm will be playing this winter in Lipscomb's Allen Arena.It might be worth investigating whether Allen Arena or Belmont's Curb Arena is adaptable to AFL2 football.If so, someone could own an AFL2 franchise that would be profitable forever.

[nitroseed]

Hey, I actually attended Lipscomb in 1999! I remember their old gym was pretty small. I had no idea they were planning to build a new one. That should be interesting when the ABA makes that their home.

[pking34@comcast.net]

You would be proud if you saw the new Allen Arena,which Lipscomb has been playing in for,I think,two seasons.It ,and Belmont's new Curb Arena,are what I call "boutique" arenas----- first-class,state-of-the-art facilities scaled to a seating size that fits a mid-major Division 1 fan base. Lipscomb and Belmont both made the decision to leave the NAIA and go NCAA Division 1 in the last decade,and both,I think,are doing so successfully.

[bigbaldben]

Just graduated with my Master's from Belmont in Curb, and I think it would freaking rock to have an arena team there. Parking would be the only concern I can think of, but the new parking garage might take care of that.

GO KATS!!

[nitroseed]

You would be proud if you saw the new Allen Arena,which Lipscomb has been playing in for,I think,two seasons.It ,and Belmont's new Curb Arena,are what I call "boutique" arenas----- first-class,state-of-the-art facilities scaled to a seating size that fits a mid-major Division 1 fan base. Lipscomb and Belmont both made the decision to leave the NAIA and go NCAA Division 1 in the last decade,and both,I think,are doing so successfully.

Speaking of Lipscomb, have they ever decided to grant the poor school a football team? I remember being told that one of the key people who funded the school's construction (might have even been Lipscomb himself) only agreed to fund it under the strict stipulation that the school never participated in football, and if they did, he would basically yank the land out from under them.

And are they going NCAA Div-I for both baseball and basketball? What conference did they put them in?

[pking34@comcast.net]

Both Lipscomb and Belmont are in the Atlantic Sun Conference, which means that the "Battles of the Boulevard" are alive and well in Division 1. As far as football at Lipscomb,there is occasional talk in the Nashville media about a startup of a program in the near future, but it would probably be a Division 1-AA,2, or 3 program,rather than 1-A. I see no reason it couldn't eventually happen--- the David Lipscomb high school football program is a small-school power in Tennessee that has produced several SEC players.

[Brian in Boston]

Adding Boston is a little tricky becuase the AFL has not had a great history in New England. Their first franchise played in Springfield back in the early 90's as the New England Steamrollers. Although the 'Rollers were a good team, at the gate they fell woefully short. They then tried it again when the Mass Maurders came a callin' this time in Harford. And again, the same fate befell the the Maurders (they were the Detroit Drive). Them the SeaWolves came a'callin as they moved to Harford from NYC were they were the City Hawks and played at MSG. The Wolves eventually moved to Florida and became the Bobcats, and well you know the rest.

So do I think that Boston will be viable? Who knows. And now on the STL. "Da Lou" had it's shot in 94 and 95 with the Stampeed. They were not a good and neither was their ownership. But this time around, better ownership and a better deal, you never know.

My honest opinions, in the AFL you'll see STL, Washington, Boston, and maybe even Miami this time. That'll give the league the divisional and geographical balance that it's screaming for. As far as "the Decue" is concerned, I'm going to say that they'll lose about four teams and add several more as many teams in the NIFL are considering moving to a better league. My opinon on that is for another post.

Well, there are reasons that establishing an Arena Football League expansion franchise in Boston might be tricky, but these so-called "facts" about the league's history in New England aren't accurate enough to give any indication as to how a Boston-based team in the current AFL might do.

The first AFL franchise to set up shop in the region was the New England Steamrollers. They were based in Providence, Rhode Island (not Springfield, Massachusetts) for a single season, 1988 (as opposed to the early 1990s). Their record was 3 - 9. The team averaged 5,707 fans per game playing at the Providence Civic Center.

The next team to call the area home were the Mass Marauders. The former Detroit Drive franchise set up shop in Worcester, Massachusetts (not Hartford, Connecticut) for just one season, 1994. Their overall record was 9 - 5 (8 - 4 regular season, 1 - 1 playoffs). The team averaged 7,371 fans per game playing at the Worcester Centrum.

The Connecticut Coyotes played two seasons in New England, 1995 and 1996. They were based in Hartford, Connecticut. The team's overall record was just 3 - 23. The team averaged 7,850 fans per game playing at the Hartford Civic Center.

After a two season absence, Arena Football returned to New England - and the Hartford Civic Center - in 1999. The former New York CityHawks played the 1999 and 2000 AFL seasons as the New England Sea Wolves. The Sea Wolves posted an overall record of 13 - 16 (13 - 15 regular season, 0 - 1 playoffs). The team averaged 6,620 fans per game, before relocating to Toronto, Ontario and becoming the Phantoms.

Success or failure in any of these cities is no true indication of how a new AFL franchise would fare in the major market of Boston. The biggest stumbling block facing an AFL expansion franchise in Boston would be securing a reasonable lease (featuring enough attractive dates) at the Fleet Center. The arena is already home to both the Boston Bruins (whose parent company Delaware North owns the facility) and Boston Celtics, so an AFL team would be the third-tier tenant in the building. Delaware North's Jeremy Jacobs is also notorious for wanting to milk every dollar that he can out of those leasing the facility, so whether or not a prospective AFL owner would consider the venture potentially profitable is open to debate.

Brian in Boston