Chris Kluwe: "Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot"

[OnWis97]

Also, I think most casual fans think NFL players make a lot more than they used to. They hear about a big extension some quarterback signs, they see how popular the NFL is, they hear how much money the Super Bowl commercials cost to air, and they kinda get caught up in lumping baseball and football players together. If the casual fan has heard of a player from another team, that player is rich.

There is a lot of ignorance of the non-guaranteed contracts, how short most careers are, and how much money most special-teamers make in their 1-3 year careers. It's probably the team sport where the players most deserve better treatment from the owners.

I want to revisit my post from earlier:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/66428704/

Chris Kluwe isn't a "gay marriage" problem; he's a labor problem.

. . .

. Because while the NFL already abhors the political, the social, the uncomfortable -- anything, really, that is non-commercial -- what it really hates talking about is labor. The people who own the NFL hate labor outside the game just as much.

Is it me, or do fans of the NFL hate its labor as much as the management does? I mean, when the NHL was locked out, you had some people who grumbled about the players wanting too much, but for the most part, intelligent fans supported the players, and once everything got back going, fans generally like the people who play the game. NBA, you'd have been hard-pressed to find anyone siding with Stern, or at least anyone who doesn't own the Milwaukee Bucks, and of course in times of labor peace it's all about the players.

But with the NFL, whether it's before, during, or after a labor stoppage, there always seems to be a distinct sense of contempt for the players: that their CTE problems are theirs and theirs alone, that they should always just Shut Up And Play, that they can/will/should be replaced for the slightest decline or dissent. I think I really started easing out of NFL fandom during their lockout when I would ask people why, if you think so little of the people playing this terrible game for your amusement, do you even watch them play the game, and never get a worthy response. It was kind of my first real clear realization that the NFL had become something too big for its own good. If these aren't people, or at least not people I should see as people, then what am I watching? Now, I'm not asking that people send Christmas cards to their second-string offensive linemen here, but the way these guys are treated like these mere components that are to be resented and hated for doing anything other than what they're expected to do is just very offputting vis-a-vis the other team sports where players aren't quite so fungible. It's just a very industrial-revolution approach to human beings. And then there's fantasy. Enough said. And I'll admit that I just plain don't like Chris Kluwe, because I deal with enough profane and hyperliterate message board people in my life and I already am a profane and hyperliterate message board person, and so I don't need a Minnesota Vikings punter to add to the pile, but on general principle I don't begrudge football players their rights to be something other than human Xs and Os who kill themselves to sell beer and trucks.

Sorry, I just think if we're going to go off topic, better it be like this than about the goddamn duck-call people again.

The article you linked hit the nail on the heard (particularly the bold part above). I have always had a sense that the NFL does not really even want its players having non-football interests.

Some people (not me, ha ha) take sports too seriously, be it hockey, baseball, basketball, etc. But football has become a bit too much of a way of life. And, like you, I find myself kinda hoping for the NFL to be taken down a peg...in part because of the massive coverage at the expense of all other sports. In part because Packer fans seem to think their team is something more than a football team (I admit that's my issue to an extent). In part because it seems you are not allowed to go to a Vikings game if you don't drive a huge-ass SUV, judging by game-day traffic. I suppose if I was a more empathetic person, it would also be because of how much we want our players to be like the Fox robots and could care less if their quality of life is horrible after making their 500 grand.

As for your disdain for Kluwe, it reminds me of how I the co-workers I am least comfortable around have the same myers-briggs type as I do. I found your disdain ironic.

And I don't think this is off-topic at all. It points to the very NFL Kluwe claims exists.

[The_Admiral]

Ooh, what's yours? I usually test as INTP but have also come up as INFJ, the rarest sector of all!

[The_Admiral]

Also, speaking of marketing a perfect image, it's interesting to me that baseball has been so heavily marketing its timeless Chevy-and-apple-pie Americana when any real student of the game knows that baseball has always had a fierce countercultural streak bubbling just under its surface. It wasn't large, and it wasn't embraced, but it was there. If the spirit of baseball had really been about respecting the status quo every step of the way, you wouldn't have had the Dodgers forcing the major leagues to accept Jackie Robinson, Dock Ellis pitching on acid, Marty Brennaman inciting a riot, Bill Veeck doing anything, or people smoking weed and getting blown in the upper deck of the Oakland Coliseum. God bless it all, too; baseball's the best.

[OnWis97]

Ooh, what's yours? I usually test as INTP but have also come up as INFJ, the rarest sector of all!

INTP

[BlueSky]

illwauk, you're a lost cause. I didn't tell the story as if the Duke players were innocent angels; I didn't tell the story at all. I referred to it as an example where people were falsely accused. And to imply I'm aligned with their political beliefs? You have no idea what their beliefs are and little of what mine are.

You're just stereotyping and I'll bet you get all offended when people stereotype you, don't you? Be careful you don't suffocate under that pile of irony.

Your thought processes are seriously flawed.

[Gothamite]

BlueSky, please don't try to make this about us personally.

Attack the post, not the posters. We could all do well to remember that.

[BlueSky]

Where was that advice after his post? Or are you just trying to make my head explode?

But it's all good. It's my own fault for wasting my time in here.

[CS85]

We could always talk about airplanes.

[BlueSky]

^ I'm in!

You were probably taking a shot but like I said, it's all good.

Here, Goth, let me try again.

Illwauk, I sincerely regret to inform you that the assumptions on which your post were based are inaccurate. Please be kind enough to base future observations on verifiable facts, especially when making unpleasant accusations about other members. Certainly you would not be pleased should others make untrue conclusions about you based on incomplete information. Your prompt consideration of this request is most appreciated.

Better?

[Gothamite]

Splendid. Thank you.

As I said, we could all keep that in mind.

Edited, because I obviously can't read.

[BlueSky]

I think what I'll try now (yeah, good luck) is sticking to concepts instead of providing examples. People want to attack the examples and whether their shots are accurate or not it ends up diluting the argument.

So...can we all agree that no person who is innocent of committing a specific heinous act deserves to be accused of said heinous act?

How about that such unfounded allegations unfairly stigmatize those falsely accused?

Surely even we, this wonderfully diverse bunch of human beings who make up the CCSLC, can agree on those two simple points.

Can't we? (Not holding breath.)

[Gothamite]

Yes.

Can you now agree that anti-gay bigotry must not be allowed, tolerated or encouraged in workplaces, especially from management?

(Edited, to clarify my terms)

[JackieMoon]

Although I do think what Kluwe did was good. He stood for his beliefs. But, honestly, I do not have much sympathy for the pro sports players when it comes to their salaries and how they feel like their lives are ruined.

They make a million times more than the average person who goes out and works their fingers to the bone.

[CS85]

Until you post something of substance that doesn't make me feel like I'm reading a textbook on how to post innumerable hollow slabs of text, does it really matter?

[Gothamite]

Although I do think what Kluwe did was good. He stood for his beliefs. But, honestly, I do not have much sympathy for the pro sports players when it comes to their salaries and how they feel like their lives are ruined.

They make a million times more than the average person who goes out and works their fingers to the bone.

So what? Their owners make far more than they do.

Besides, we all have the right to a workplace free of bigotry and hatred. Nobody's salary pushes them up and out of that.

[BlueSky]

@ Goth, no, sorry. It's not right to single out anti-gay bigotry. NO bigotry of any kind should be allowed, tolerated or encouraged in the workplace or, ideally, anywhere else.

BTW, that's how I've always felt.

[JackieMoon]

I'm not saying anyone should endure bigotry at work. Just saying for a yearly six figure income I would just shut up and do my job.

[IceCap]

@ Goth, no, sorry. It's not right to single out anti-gay bigotry. NO bigotry of any kind should be allowed, tolerated or encouraged in the workplace or, ideally, anywhere else.

BTW, that's how I've always felt.

Obviously. The thing is that this issue concerns homophobia/anti-gay bigotry. So that's what we're talking about. Oprah, Joe Biden, Duke lacrosse, these are all dilutions. I get what point you were trying to make but they're all distractions none the less. If you want to discuss what Oprah said then start a thread about it. This, though, is a thread about anti-gay bigotry. So that's what we're going to talk about (or try to).

If you honestly believe what you've said in this quote then great. It's a welcomed sentiment in the context of what this thread should be about. The whole "what about Oprah/Biden/Duke lacrosse" arguments just come off as a game of "find the hurtful liberal" from you whenever someone allegedly on your side of the political spectrum says something hurtful.

You should be quite capable of saying "yes, what Mike Preifer allegedly said was hurtful and uncalled for" without saying "look at all of these unrelated examples that prove liberals are just as bad!"

[Gothamite]

I'm not saying anyone should endure bigotry at work. Just saying for a yearly six figure income I would just shut up and do my job.

Those two statements form a logical contradiction.

[Gothamite]

You should be quite capable of saying "yes, what Mike Preifer allegedly said was hurtful and uncalled for" without saying "look at all of these unrelated examples that prove liberals are just as bad!"

Exactly. Because by throwing out all those unrelated examples, the clear implication is that what Mike Preifer allegedly said wasn't actually all that bad, because liberals. Now, I know that's not what you meant to say, but it is a reasonable interpretation of the posts.