monkeypower

Re Oilers talk; Who cares about the Navy/Orange and Royal/Orange debate when the Oilers best and most true look remains mothballed?

I think you might be reading too much into it. I think they were just going for a b/w or grey scale logo just to have a more muted logo on the pants. The Flames had the white flaming-C from the pedestal jerseys on their pants for over 20 years, even long after that white flaming-C was retired, and they never had a black jersey with the white flaming-C.

Quoted to bump it before the official reveal and this thread takes off again (and if anyone missed it before Avs Talk came back with a vengeance). Both the dark and the white jerseys now have the "correct" Kachina logo and the graphic at the end of the reveal video also appears to be the "correct" Kachina logo. So it appears now that the incorrect 2018-2021 jersey Kachina logo has been retired, bringing my count of different Kachina logos currently in use to three. I find this absolutely fascinating. It can't be an intentional choice that there are three slightly different Kachina's in use now, so I really don't get what's going on. I know there will be at least two in play for a while (three maybe depending on any social media profile picture changes) as the jersey Kachina and the centre ice/website/polo Kachina Kachina are different. I know we can't, but I would really like to see the style guide for the Coyotes to see what the actual Kachina logo is supposed to be. I don't mean to call you out, but you did like my post quoted in here when I first made it @andrewharrington, so do you know anything? Coyotes Hockey, Baby!

From the end of August.

Yeah, I thought we already knew it was tomorrow.

And I think that is true to an extent, but that didn't stop them from causing another saturation and value issue when they went with grey outlines for the back numbers and the captain's letters. If you look at the sleeve numbers with the "correct" outline colours, I think it looks good. I think there's definitely enough contrast for the burgundy and blue to be touching (or at least is just as much of a contrast as the numbers currently have). I do find it weird that the number outlines aren't consistent in the fact that the numbers on the burgundy jersey are white outlined in the grey while the numbers on the burgundy sleeves are white outlined in blue.

The black equipment (and presumably numbers based on the captain's c) are even worse on that because now there's no black on the jerseys.

Why was it wrong? Does anybody know the story to this? Is there even a story to this? Looking into it more, I also don't know if it's been entirely fixed. The updated jersey logo has the corrected skate blade colour, the green feather tip and the upper purple arm stripe Their rookie team was still wearing the incorrectly logoed Kachina jerseys from previous years yesterday for the rookie tournament, which I guess might not mean much because they probably just had those ones laying around The logo they put at centre ice has the corrected skate blade colour and the green feather tip, but is missing the upper purple arm stripe On the Coyotes website, all the logo graphics there match the centre ice logo with the corrected skate blade colour and the green feather tip, but are missing the upper purple arm stripe However, the little logo in the schedule bar across the top of the website matches the jersey logo with the corrected skate blade colour, the green feather tip and the upper purple arm stripe Then when you mosey over to their Twitter, their Facebook and their Instagram, the profile picture and the cover photo (for Twitter and Facebook) have the corrected skate blade colour but do not have the green feather tip nor the upper purple left arm stripe The graphics in the social media posts use the logo seen at centre ice and on the website with the corrected skate blade colour and the green feather tip, but no upper purple arm stripe Another thing I noticed was that Chychrun was the Coyotes rep at the Media Tour days and wore the howling coyote logo on one day and then the Kachina (sans upper purple arm stripe like the logo seen at centre ice and on the website) the next. So by my count there are four different Kachinas in use right now by the Coyotes. The incorrect 2018-2021(?) jersey Kachina, the jersey/tiny website schedule Kachina, the centre ice/website/polo Kachina, and the social media profile picture Kachina. Then add in that Chychrun shows up at the media day wearing the howling coyote logo (though that could have been out of the Coyotes hands, I don't know how they pick what the players are going to wear for those but I would assume the teams would have a say)? I guess some of this could be fixed or the logos could pared down on Monday with the unveiling, or whatever it is, but I think at the very least there will be at least two Kachinas with the jersey/tiny website schedule Kachina and the centre ice/website/polo Kachina. I don't know what all this is about, other than Coyotes Hockey, Baby!

Obviously, eggplant was the obvious choice for the Mighty Ducks just as maroon or blue should have been for the Avalanche from day one. I just can't accept the "they had black piping or black numbers or black in their logo so the black equipment was fine" because there was barely any black on the jerseys and all of it seemed slapped on only there to justify the use black equipment (or the use of black equipment to justify the small amount of black on the jerseys). I think there are a lot of similarities between the Mighty Ducks and the Avalanche jerseys and I don't see how you can call the Mighty Ducks colour balance perfect with eggplant equipment and yet have problems with the Avalanche using maroon equipment. The dark jerseys for both teams are pretty similar in terms of colour hierarchy, with the Avalanche having more blue than the Ducks did jade, and the Mighty Ducks white jersey colour balance is off just as much as the Avalanche, just in a different direction. The vast majority of the eggplant on the white jersey comes from the NOB, the numbers and the equipment. If you got a plain uncustomized white Mighty Ducks jersey off the rack, there is a collar and three stripes of eggplant that are the same striping size as, and is fighting for attention with, the grey, which is only a tertiary colour, with absolutely no eggplant in the primary logo and very little in the shoulder patch. The colour balance in the white set comes from the equipment and the lettering (which I think is what led to the colour balance issues with the 25th anniversary jersey). Question though to you, and anyone else, what do you think about the Avs having pulled a Mighty Ducks and going with maroon equipment and not switching the blue mountain striping and instead flipping the maroon and white between the home and away. (I hope that makes sense, I'm not good enough at photoshop to make that happen ). I think the maroon pants would look the same with the maroon jerseys as the eggplant equipment did with the Mighty Ducks eggplant set and then the secondary striping, the equipment, the numbers and the NOB would be maroon on the white set which would help on the colour balance because it accomplishes the same thing the eggplant on the Mighty Ducks white set did.

Ah, fair enough. So three then, still pretty unusual and novel. It's not an awful comparison because it's exactly what I was explaining. A youth hockey team that's not black using black equipment because it's the default hockey equipment colour available for retail. That's what the Avs looked like. They had barely any black and it barely worked. Everybody just got used to it. In the words of Amir Blumenfeld, "Garbage becomes perfect over time as you get used to the garbage and forget what made it so bad". Like I said in my post above, the inclusion of the little black piping (on only the home) and then the black numbers (only on the away) seemed to only be there to justify the use of black equipment or vice versa. Yes, the Ducks did have trouble getting the eggplant equipment (or at least that's the story that gets told, I don't know if I've ever seen that "officially" confirmed anywhere) but then they got the rightful eggplant equipment back after two seasons. They didn't have trouble getting the non-black equipment for 24 years like the Avs did. The Ducks even had more black in their logo than the Avs do and they were able to use the eggplant equipment perfectly fine without using black striping, black numbers or black equipment. Which looks better?

Well, obviously for the first game, Disney wanted to promote the 18th anniversary of the 2003 Finals and their ownership run to those finals. The second, I got nothing. Since those are both home games for the Ducks and Sharks, I think they were probably just trying to fill a "late night on the East Coast" timeslot (that's actually how I am able to end up watching a decent of Angels home games on Canadian TV). It just so happens that none of the four teams are huge draws eyeball wise nor good at hockey right now.

It is unusual and novel though. The only team in the NHL, to my knowledge, that have done different coloured pants for home and away were the expansion Capitals and that only lasted for one season. There are only two other instances, one concrete, that I can think of since then where there was a different set of home and away gear; I want to say that at some point when the Oilers brought the throwback back as an alternate for a period during the EDGE years (NHL Uniform Database says 2008-2011), the throwback was promoted to the primary home jersey with the white EDGE jersey remaining as the away and the home EDGE being demoted to alternate The Golden Knights white gloves That's 30+ seasons in between the Capitals and the Oilers and then another six in between the Oilers and Golden Knights. It's so unusual and novel that not even the Finley Golden Seals did something like that and they rocked white skates. Off the top of my head, I actually can't think of any non-NHL teams to have done different coloured home and away equipment, but there probably is somewhere. To be honest, I don't know if that would be a huge deal because they wouldn't have to bring both sets on road trips. They would just have to make sure they packed the right stuff before they left.

All you pro-black, anti-blue people have been Stockholm Syndromed into thinking the black equipment and numbers looked good. The black striping and the numbers were extraneous and the black equipment looked like a youth hockey team, but youth hockey has a pass because black is the default retail hockey equipment colour. I think it's a chicken or the egg scenario where I don't know which came first in the design process, the black numbers/dark jersey stripe or the black equipment colours, but they ended up only existing to justify each other like some sort of paradox. If the Avs and Kraken were swapped in the timeline and the Avs were the expansion team with their previous uniforms with the black equipment and numbers, it would be called out. And I'm constantly surprised that everyone (the collective everyone) seems to be fine with the Avalanche using the Rockies logo. If it was the same franchise, than sure okay whatever, but it's not, so get your own logo Avalanche!

I'm thinking it could be like that good, old Canadian hockey boy where someone scores two goals in a period and Gretzky will make some humble comment when another panelist turns the question to him asking how many times he did that and then call the player better than he was. Or it's like what commonly gets attributed to his coaching stint where he's just too naturally talented at hockey to be able to explain it well.

Hey, there's a combined 2879 NHL points right there between the two (I also don't know if I would consider Bissonnette the worst player in NHL history. He definitely be down there towards the bottom in percentile, but I would have to think there would still be a fair amount "worse"). Honestly, out of all those analysts, I'm the most apprehensive about Gretzky. Bissonnette is personable and has the media experience (and I don't think he's there for the hard hitting analysis anyways), I think I've liked Anson Carter in the limited times I've seen him doing TV for NBC(?). For Gretzky, it's definitely a great pull to get the greatest player of all time but I don't know what he offers besides just being there on the panel. I don't think I've really seen him in an analyst/media role and I just don't know how well he'll do given his public demeanor. I guess I might (should?) also be apprehensive about Tocchet if I knew really anything about him besides that he played and coached, and got arrested for gambling or whatever, but I don't, so I don't know what to expect out of him.

That's what I was trying to get at with the WNBA, I just didn't word it well. Regardless of all the problems that the WNBA has, it is the premier professional women's sports league in North America. So while you may see the question "why can't the NWHL be more like the WNBA?" and think it's laughable, within the context of women's professional leagues it's a valid question. The PHF could only hope to have the stability and establishment (within the context of women's professional leagues) that the WNBA has. And according to that old John Shannon tweet I posted, women's professional hockey may just never be able to reach WNBA levels.

Yeah, the bubble was an unmitigated disaster. They had some momentum and interest building up and fumbled it. As much that gets thrown at the WNBA, it's still the gold standard for (North America) women's professional leagues. Here's what Bettman said in April of 2019 after the CWHL folded, basically saying that the NHL won't get involved in a women's league unless they can do it themselves without steamrolling any other existing leagues (which makes sense on their part).

Oh, I'm not saying they should have shacked up with Barstool. I'm saying how they handled it was the issue with having no problem with Nardini and Barstool promoting the players and league (and if you want to take Nardini at her word, had her in for conversations in regards to league goings-on and potential ownership) until that core league fanbase and some players had an issue with it that one day (though Nardini did kind of bring it on herself with her dumb shtick). Then the immediate follow up had the league pretty much disown Barstool and promote a blue check writer in Barstool's stead who had just written an article trashing Barstool's connection to the league that included a provably false major lie about Barstool dealings with one of the league's players. Sometime after, Nardini made a Facebook post, I believe it was because all I saw was like a screen shot of a screen shot, saying that she understands that not everyone is willing, or able, to get into bed with Barstool, but that she was disappointed that the league would actively get her and Barstool involved until people had an issue with it and then actively and publically cut Barstool off. In that same post, she said that men's teams, outside organizations and, I think, sponsors had reached out to her post-fallout saying they had also been interested in getting involved with the league but decided against it once they had discussions with the league and didn't like what they saw and heard back. I don't think standing with Barstool is the hill that the PHF needed to or should have die/died on, but I think the whole situation was a microcosm of the PHF's issues with exposure (they also immediately followed it up with the failed bubble which also didn't help). Oddly enough, the person who wrote the anti-Barstool article that I mentioned above, and then was specifically promoted by the then-NWHL immediately after, was hired by the Seattle Times to be the Kraken writer. I believe she had been doing some writing for Sportsnet before.

From the Twitter and Facebook responses, this Roughnecks rebrand is not being received all that well. The jerseys are really just the Coyotes old jerseys. This is also interesting. Derrick was the old mascot before CSEC switched him with Howie the Honey Badger, I believe to keep with CSEC's apparent team name-unrelated animal mascot mandate the same time that "honey badger don't give a..." video was viral (neither of those is a joke). From my understanding, the Howie switch was not well liked by Roughneck fans, it wasn't liked by me as a casual fan, and Derrick has been wanted back pretty much ever since he left. Howie was still there for the unveiling and this Derrick tweet didn't happen until well later in the day, so maybe they'll be going with two mascots now?

That was kind of my thinking when this change was announced. The whole draw/appeal/selling point of the league was that it was the professional hockey league for women. Changing from the National Women's Hockey League to the dumb name (regardless of this situation dumb name) of Premier Hockey Federation removes the whole reason people cared about this league. As much as people on the internet who supported the league may have tried to play it otherwise, it's the "novelty" (not in a bad way) of the league being women that made people watch it. I don't think anyone was watching it to see the highest level of hockey competition, they were watching it to see the highest level of women's hockey and to see a league that gives women hockey players of all ages something concrete(-ish) at the professional level to aim for and be paid to play, instead of finishing university and then drifting between international tournaments. The level of hockey is just not good enough* for it to be the main draw. I don't think the whole internet meta thing surrounding the league helps the league because while those people are the biggest fans who you do want surrounding and promoting your league on the internet, it becomes a insular feedback loop and where outsiders have to be accepted by those internet fans or else you aren't allowed in. From an outsiders perspective who doesn't pay attention who just sees things about it on the internet (which I think gives me authority to speak on it as someone who would be a potential fan) the league appears to be one of its biggest enemies because it is so insular. I don't think they play well with others, as especially seen with the CWHL/PWHA situation (and regardless of how you feel about Barstool, I also think the league completely mishandled that whole debacle). *

The Zach Wilson effect.

I saw in a Twitter response that that Ryan Popowich guy said the red didn't look good against the teal in response to someone asking why the red was dropped. Regardless of my Air Canada post, that's not a great company line in saying reason for the colour change is because the old colours clashed with a the colours of a sponsor because you made the turf the colours of the sponsor.