9/11 Tribute Helmets

[random]

I was browsing a message board and found this...

the arkansas razorbacks are planning on wearing these on 9/11/04 against texas.

i for one like em. nice tribute

[Survival79]

This is merely a concept helmet created by a poster on the WooPig.net forum:

http://www.woopig.net/php/index.php?topic=10295.0

The idea to pay tribute to the victims of 9/11 is great. However, from a design standpoint it is certainly lacking.

It is also disrespectful to incorporate the Stars and Stripes into a sports logo (or any logo for that matter).

[CC97]

It is also disrespectful to incorporate the Stars and Stripes into a sports logo (or any logo for that matter).

Is that an official U.S. policy... I know some countries consider it disrespectful if you use national symbols certain ways (Saudi Arabia is big on this one).

So is that actually a disrespectful thing to do, or just an opinion of yours?

thanks

[random]

the USA discorages use of stars and stripes on anything and it is somewhat frowned upon (it violates "flag ettiquite"), but not illegal. there was a law that tried to accomplish this in the mid 90s (defense of flag act?) but it was struck down by the courts as being unconstitutional. so use of the flag in this manner is protected by the 1st amendment

[Survival79]

While it is personally offensive, it is also a part of US Code. More specifically, Title 4, Chapter 1, Sec. 8-g. & 8-j.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/8.html

[Avenger]

It's frowned up by some. A lot of people don't mind it if it's used tastefully and respectfully, as in this Razorback logo.

[random]

While it is personally offensive, it is also a part of US Code. More specifically, Title 4, Chapter 1, Sec. 8-g. & 8-j.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/8.html

correct, it is considered disrespectful under "flag ettiquite" to display the flag in a disrespectful manner. however, flag ettiquite is not "law" in the sense that it is not a criminal offense to choose not to follow it. however, i believe federal offices, etc. must follow proper flag ettiquite. but if some radical wanted to use the flag as a doormat, according to the supreme court he has the right to do so. thus, despite congress's efforts, it is not illegal to disrespect the flag.

all of this aside. i dont think the arkansas helmet disrespects it, as it is tasteful and in a tribute IMO.

[See Red]

I think letter J relates to what this discussion is about. And I do believe it's illegal.

Sec. 8. ? Respect for flag

No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

A  The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

B  The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

C  The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

D  The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

E  The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

F  The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

G  The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

H  The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

I  The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

J  No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

K  The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning

[Survival79]

While it is personally offensive, it is also a part of US Code. More specifically, Title 4, Chapter 1, Sec. 8-g. & 8-j.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/8.html

correct, it is considered disrespectful under "flag ettiquite" to display the flag in a disrespectful manner. however, flag ettiquite is not "law" in the sense that it is not a criminal offense to choose not to follow it. however, i believe federal offices, etc. must follow proper flag ettiquite. but if some radical wanted to use the flag as a doormat, according to the supreme court he has the right to do so. thus, despite congress's efforts, it is not illegal to disrespect the flag.

all of this aside. i dont think the arkansas helmet disrespects it, as it is tasteful and in a tribute IMO.

I never said it was unlawful, merely that it was disrepectful according to the US Code. While the use of the flag in the Arkansas helmet is meant to be respectful, it is inappropriate (IMHO).

So, to answer CC97's question, yes, it is actually a disrespectful thing to do.

[Avenger]

As stated above, it's not illegal per se. It's questionable whether or not is discouraged, but it's not punishable.

[CC97]

Thank ya team

[random]

See two supreme court cases

Texas v. Johnson and United States v. Eichman

they held that burning the flag is expressive conduct and therfore protected under the 1st amendment. that struck down the anti-flag burning laws allthough many are still on the books, however anyone arrested for it would simply appeal and be let out.

they may try to arrest you for disturbing the peace or something like that, but again, other supreme court cases put restrictions on that as well.

[Survival79]

See two supreme court cases

Texas v. Johnson and United States v. Eichman

they held that burning the flag is expressive conduct and therfore protected under the 1st amendment. that struck down the anti-flag burning laws allthough many are still on the books, however anyone arrested for it would simply appeal and be let out.

they may try to arrest you for disturbing the peace or something like that, but again, other supreme court cases put restrictions on that as well.

See my previous post.

[random]

sorry survival, i was actually referring to another post above that claimed it was illegal.

and for the record, i am a proud american who would never burn/disrespect the flag, but i also respect others rights to do so, allthough i also respect my own right to call them a bad american if they do.

[robbman21]

Arrgghhh....

Okay,as the resident Arkansan here let me interrupt the flag usage debate just to say that 1)that re-colored Hog was done just shortly after 9/11 and just as an

Arkansan artitst's way of using our major state symbol to show our devotion for our country and our sympathies for the events of 9/11. 2)Bootlegged and homemage versions of t-shirts and sweatshirts bearing this logo were sold in the parking lot of a few games of the '01 season but most were quickly confiscated.

At the Independance Bowl this year VS Missouri I saw a couple wearing white

sweatshirts bearing the 'Flag Hog'. 3)This depiction of the Razorback was NEVER

sanctioned or sponsored by the University and they are steadfastly against any depiction of the Razorback Hog in anything OTHER than red or white and it's unlikely that Chancellor John White or AD Frank Broyles would go for such a thing.

Also our Hog is protected by state officials(do not know how or to what extent so cant explain...only that I have heard this many times).An example of this is when Lou Holtz came to Fayettevill to coach,he informed the school and Coach Broyles he intended to take the Hog off the helmet and go with either an outline of the state with a number in it or just a plain red or white helmet with a number.Seeing as he was the coach he thought he had this power to do so,but was then informed that was not possible due to the state of Arkansas' control of the famous Hog.Ths

was even IF Broyles endorsed the move,which or course he did'nt.M

My whole point is that it is EXTREMELY unlikely the Hogs would ever modify their helmets in any way that the helmet is not red,and the Razorback is not white.A

decal on the back?Possible.A BLACK helmet that wreaks of something made shortly after 9/11 rather than a new concept....NA-AH.

[Survival79]

sorry survival, i was actually referring to another post above that claimed it was illegal.

and for the record, i am a proud american who would never burn/disrespect the flag, but i also respect others rights to do so, allthough i also respect my own right to call them a bad american if they do.

No harm, no foul. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

[schlim]

Funny how you little small minded republican americans out there rush to decry flag burning, but would rather have your holier than thou stars and stripes displayed on the side of a pig on a football helmet. Cheers to you and your memories. Not to tarnish the tragedy of September 11th, but come on, please move along and think better thoughts than dwelling on things like that. You have your war in Iraq, aren 't you happy yet??? Do you need to memorialize tragedy on a football helmet???????

I mean really.

[pcgd]

Illegal, I'm not sure. I don't think this is disrepectful though IMO. I remember new era coming out with the flag logo hats with the US Flag in some, some had Ireland, cuba, among others. I thought they looked pretty cool in some cases. A way to show your heritage or support for your country and your team.

Everyone's opinion is their own. I think that's one reason why its not a law. Its what makes america great.

peace,

pc

[Saintsfan]

I didn't read anything refers to pictures of the flag. In fact in several places the code specifically seems to be referrring only to the actual flag, NOT representations of it.

And they specifically changed the Superbowl Logo after 9/11 to make it oh lets think erm... yes thats right - A stars and stripes in the shape of your country. (Why has nop-one brought that up yet!!)

[Avenger]

I didn't read anything refers to pictures of the flag. In fact in several places the code specifically seems to be referrring only to the actual flag, NOT representations of it...

That's a pretty good point.