NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[colortv]

Carson surges ahead...

Peter King

L.A. Update: Carson surges ahead.

• The Carson proposal—with either the Chargers and Raiders together, or the Chargers alone—seems to have more momentum than Stan Kroenke’s plan to move the Rams to a complex in Inglewood. Part of the sentiment for Carson is simple: The owners want to support the Spanos family and the Chargers, feeling they have done everything they can to make a new stadium work in San Diego for years.

• The six-owner Committee on Los Angeles Opportunities (perhaps the NFL could name a Vice President of Committee Name Improvement) is likely to end up either 4-2 or 5-1 in favor of the Carson project, a source with knowledge of the committee’s feelings told me. One asterisk there: The committee is likely to side with Carson as long as the new St. Louis stadium is rock-solid when it comes time to vote. If any of the six believe the St. Louis proposal is flawed, they could switch to Kroenke and Inglewood.

• Neither site is close to having the 24 votes to approve one plan.

• No one knows the outcome.

• Robert Iger, the Disney CEO, has been a boon to the Carson project since he joined forces with the Chargers/Raiders last month. “He feels like a partner to people like Roger Goodell and Bob Kraft,” said one source. Why shouldn’t he? Disney is the parent of ESPN. ESPN has enriched the NFL with rights fees, signed off by Iger, for years. Snagging Iger was the right move.

• One ownership source said he thinks Spanos, if he were in the Carson project alone with Iger, would probably have 24 votes to win the project now. Some owners view the Raiders as a drag on the Carson project, feeling the team brings little to the table. And some owners still seem to carry some enmity for the late Al Davis.

• As for the league’s ability to finalize the plan for Los Angeles at a series of meetings in Houston Jan. 12 and 13, that’s no lock. It’s probable, but not certain.

• And as for Rams owner Stan Kroenke, should his dream of the Inglewood project die: No one knows what he’ll do. I hear he’s not interested in becoming the owner to move to London. But every other piece of speculation—that he sells the Rams, that he keeps the Rams in a stadium he doesn’t like, that he waits out the Bowlen family and buys the Broncos—is all talk-show fodder. My best guess is he’d hang onto the team and become the biggest franchise free-agent in the coming few years. I keep hearing he doesn’t like the new St. Louis stadium project. It could be an ugly shotgun marriage, or Kroenke refusing to go to the altar.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/12/07/chip-kelly-philadelphia-eagles-new-england-patriots-nfl

Some more:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25402849/stan-kroenkes-offer-for-a-second-team-at-his-la-site-less-than-enticing

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/06/l-a-deal-likely-to-happen-in-january/

I am also reading fan speculation that the Goldman Sachs factor(Eric Grubman used to work for them, multiple owners on the LA Committee have had business dealings with them) could be influencing Carson's edge.

[rams80]

• And as for Rams owner Stan Kroenke, should his dream of the Inglewood project die: No one knows what he’ll do. I hear he’s not interested in becoming the owner to move to London. But every other piece of speculation—that he sells the Rams, that he keeps the Rams in a stadium he doesn’t like, that he waits out the Bowlen family and buys the Broncos—is all talk-show fodder. My best guess is he’d hang onto the team and become the biggest franchise free-agent in the coming few years. I keep hearing he doesn’t like the new St. Louis stadium project. It could be an ugly shotgun marriage, or Kroenke refusing to go to the altar.

*Screaming internally*

JESUS ING CHRIST WE COULDN'T HIRE AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR THIS PAST OFFSEASON BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF LIMBO AND UNCERTAINTY SURROUNDING THIS ORGANIZATION AND THEREFORE WE ARE LEFT WITH AN OFFENSE THAT MANAGED 9 ING FIRST DOWNS ON SUNDAY, HAS 2 TY QUARTERBACKS AND A ROOKIE WHO WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT PAN OUT. OUR COACH HAS ING QUIT AND THE LIMBO MEANS THAT WE'RE GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH LANE KIFFIN OR SOME OTHER LONG TIME COORDINATOR WHO IS A HACK AND AN INCOMPETENT AND OH GOD I PINE FOR SPAGLAHAN. SPANOS AND CARSON.

[dfwabel]

Carson surges ahead...

Peter King

L.A. Update: Carson surges ahead.

The Carson proposalwith either the Chargers and Raiders together, or the Chargers aloneseems to have more momentum than Stan Kroenkes plan to move the Rams to a complex in Inglewood. Part of the sentiment for Carson is simple: The owners want to support the Spanos family and the Chargers, feeling they have done everything they can to make a new stadium work in San Diego for years.

The six-owner Committee on Los Angeles Opportunities (perhaps the NFL could name a Vice President of Committee Name Improvement) is likely to end up either 4-2 or 5-1 in favor of the Carson project, a source with knowledge of the committees feelings told me. One asterisk there: The committee is likely to side with Carson as long as the new St. Louis stadium is rock-solid when it comes time to vote. If any of the six believe the St. Louis proposal is flawed, they could switch to Kroenke and Inglewood.

Neither site is close to having the 24 votes to approve one plan.

No one knows the outcome.

Robert Iger, the Disney CEO, has been a boon to the Carson project since he joined forces with the Chargers/Raiders last month. He feels like a partner to people like Roger Goodell and Bob Kraft, said one source. Why shouldnt he? Disney is the parent of ESPN. ESPN has enriched the NFL with rights fees, signed off by Iger, for years. Snagging Iger was the right move.

One ownership source said he thinks Spanos, if he were in the Carson project alone with Iger, would probably have 24 votes to win the project now. Some owners view the Raiders as a drag on the Carson project, feeling the team brings little to the table. And some owners still seem to carry some enmity for the late Al Davis.

As for the leagues ability to finalize the plan for Los Angeles at a series of meetings in Houston Jan. 12 and 13, thats no lock. Its probable, but not certain.

And as for Rams owner Stan Kroenke, should his dream of the Inglewood project die: No one knows what hell do. I hear hes not interested in becoming the owner to move to London. But every other piece of speculationthat he sells the Rams, that he keeps the Rams in a stadium he doesnt like, that he waits out the Bowlen family and buys the Broncosis all talk-show fodder. My best guess is hed hang onto the team and become the biggest franchise free-agent in the coming few years. I keep hearing he doesnt like the new St. Louis stadium project. It could be an ugly shotgun marriage, or Kroenke refusing to go to the altar.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/12/07/chip-kelly-philadelphia-eagles-new-england-patriots-nfl

Some more:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25402849/stan-kroenkes-offer-for-a-second-team-at-his-la-site-less-than-enticing

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/06/l-a-deal-likely-to-happen-in-january/

I am also reading fan speculation that the Goldman Sachs factor(Eric Grubman used to work for them, multiple owners on the LA Committee have had business dealings with them) could be influencing Carson's edge.

Goldman Sachs has influence with NFL as a whole and the STL project as well. Their Greg Carey is/was advising Missouri Gov. Nixon. Prior to becoming the CFO of Twitter, Anthony Noto served as the NFL's CFO inbetween two separate stints at Goldman Sachs as a full partner.

[TheOldRoman]

• And as for Rams owner Stan Kroenke, should his dream of the Inglewood project die: No one knows what he’ll do. I hear he’s not interested in becoming the owner to move to London. But every other piece of speculation—that he sells the Rams, that he keeps the Rams in a stadium he doesn’t like, that he waits out the Bowlen family and buys the Broncos—is all talk-show fodder. My best guess is he’d hang onto the team and become the biggest franchise free-agent in the coming few years. I keep hearing he doesn’t like the new St. Louis stadium project. It could be an ugly shotgun marriage, or Kroenke refusing to go to the altar.

*Screaming internally*

JESUS ING CHRIST WE COULDN'T HIRE AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR THIS PAST OFFSEASON BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF LIMBO AND UNCERTAINTY SURROUNDING THIS ORGANIZATION AND THEREFORE WE ARE LEFT WITH AN OFFENSE THAT MANAGED 9 ING FIRST DOWNS ON SUNDAY, HAS 2 TY QUARTERBACKS AND A ROOKIE WHO WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT PAN OUT. OUR COACH HAS ING QUIT AND THE LIMBO MEANS THAT WE'RE GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH LANE KIFFIN OR SOME OTHER LONG TIME COORDINATOR WHO IS A HACK AND AN INCOMPETENT AND OH GOD I PINE FOR SPAGLAHAN. SPANOS AND CARSON.

The Bears went through the same offensive black hole at the end of the Lovie Smith regime. They went on a free agent binge before 2010, basically announcing that it was a last-ditch effort before Lovie and the GM were fired. Of course, nobody with a future in the game wanted to jump onto that sinking ship. Enter Mike Martz, along with Mike Tice as the line coach. After two seasons which included "experimental" not-trying playcalling in week 17 which handed the Packers the game and a playoff appearance, and calling a reverse to a slow possession receiver on 3rd and 2 at the end of the NFC championship game, Martz was fired. Now it really was Lovie's last straw, so no decent offensive mind wanted anywhere near the team. They promoted Mike Tice to OC. A year later, everybody was shown the door. I don't imagine this cycle will end for the Rams until they leave St. Louis.

[rams80]

• And as for Rams owner Stan Kroenke, should his dream of the Inglewood project die: No one knows what he’ll do. I hear he’s not interested in becoming the owner to move to London. But every other piece of speculation—that he sells the Rams, that he keeps the Rams in a stadium he doesn’t like, that he waits out the Bowlen family and buys the Broncos—is all talk-show fodder. My best guess is he’d hang onto the team and become the biggest franchise free-agent in the coming few years. I keep hearing he doesn’t like the new St. Louis stadium project. It could be an ugly shotgun marriage, or Kroenke refusing to go to the altar.

*Screaming internally*

JESUS ING CHRIST WE COULDN'T HIRE AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR THIS PAST OFFSEASON BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF LIMBO AND UNCERTAINTY SURROUNDING THIS ORGANIZATION AND THEREFORE WE ARE LEFT WITH AN OFFENSE THAT MANAGED 9 ING FIRST DOWNS ON SUNDAY, HAS 2 TY QUARTERBACKS AND A ROOKIE WHO WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT PAN OUT. OUR COACH HAS ING QUIT AND THE LIMBO MEANS THAT WE'RE GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH LANE KIFFIN OR SOME OTHER LONG TIME COORDINATOR WHO IS A HACK AND AN INCOMPETENT AND OH GOD I PINE FOR SPAGLAHAN. SPANOS AND CARSON.

The Bears went through the same offensive black hole at the end of the Lovie Smith regime. They went on a free agent binge before 2010, basically announcing that it was a last-ditch effort before Lovie and the GM were fired. Of course, nobody with a future in the game wanted to jump onto that sinking ship. Enter Mike Martz, along with Mike Tice as the line coach. After two seasons which included "experimental" not-trying playcalling in week 17 which handed the Packers the game and a playoff appearance, and calling a reverse to a slow possession receiver on 3rd and 2 at the end of the NFC championship game, Martz was fired. Now it really was Lovie's last straw, so no decent offensive mind wanted anywhere near the team. They promoted Mike Tice to OC. A year later, everybody was shown the door. I don't imagine this cycle will end for the Rams until they leave St. Louis.

Forgot to add, the joker they promoted to run the offense when they couldn't find anyone just got sacked yesterday.

THE ABYSS IS STARING BACK GUYS!!!!

[DustDevil61]

And here's a short statement from Missouri Governer Jay Nixon FWIW:

“I appreciate the league for providing a clear timeline of its decision-making process. With action expected next week by the St. Louis Board of Aldermen following numerous public hearings, St. Louis is in a strong position to meet the December 30 deadline established by the NFL.

"This is especially important with the league formally accepting relocation applications as soon as January 4, and a decision on those applications anticipated at the special meeting scheduled for January 12 and 13.

"Our task force has presented a strong, fiscally-responsible proposal that will keep the Rams in St. Louis in a way that is consistent with our core principles of protecting taxpayers, creating jobs, and securing private investment to revitalize a distressed area.”

Kinda funny, that "protecting taxpayers, creating jobs, and securing private investment" line, there.

[STL FANATIC]

^ Those were the core principles he laid out when created the tax force. He'll of course distort the facts however he needs to pretend this is meeting those goals.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, they'll keep sweetening the deal, giving more and more public money to the various kajillionaires, thinking there's a number where the NFL will accept it and force Kroenke to stay. Bankruptcy be damned.

[DustDevil61]

^ Those were the core principles he laid out when created the tax force. He'll of course distort the facts however he needs to pretend this is meeting those goals.

Yea, that's what I was getting at, because nothing says "protecting taxpayers" like bypassing a vote involving public money for the sake of status symbols and city pride.* But given the possibility that the Rams may be a "franchise free agent" if they're denied a move to Los Angeles (and Stan Kroenke doesn't sue), being stuck and working things out in St. Louis may be the far lesser of those two evils as there's at least a resolution there. Not the one most (myself included) hope for, mind you, but a resolution nonetheless.

Of course, Kroenke (and his Inglewood plan) is the least of all evils in this whole saga, because at least all parties can move on (St. Louis and the state of Missouri included) with their lives. It would be well worth seeing the look in Dean Spanos' eyes (and those of his supporters) if the Carson project were to ultimately fail.

*And that's coming from a Cardinals fan--albeit a far-flung one.

[STL FANATIC]

Yeah, they'll keep sweetening the deal, giving more and more public money to the various kajillionaires, thinking there's a number where the NFL will accept it and force Kroenke to stay. Bankruptcy be damned.

You've got to get a better grip on St. Louis finances. This would be bad for them, but this city is nowhere near bankruptcy. Nor is the state—though the Republican state legislature is trying their darndest.

Anyways, I don't THINK audio is up of it yet. I'll update if I see it. But Eric Grubman was on local radio with Bernie Miklasz today. The part I caught on my drive to work was pretty negative for St. Louis.

Basically, the NFL doesn't like the stadium plan. They don't think it's good enough, and (thusly) they think it will ultimately cost more than the funds be ing planned for. He didn't rule out that it might be enough to convince the owners to not let Kroenke go to LA, but that it almost certainly won't create a long-term solution for St. Louis.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, they'll keep sweetening the deal, giving more and more public money to the various kajillionaires, thinking there's a number where the NFL will accept it and force Kroenke to stay. Bankruptcy be damned.

You've got to get a better grip on St. Louis finances. This would be bad for them, but this city is nowhere near bankruptcy. Nor is the state—though the Republican state legislature is trying their darndest.

You're right. All I can go with is what I read online, and I only check out the papers once in a while, so I admit I'm seeing a snapshot at best.

But from the outside, it sure seems like the city's not exactly flush with cash.

St. Louis struggles to maintain $17 million Washington Avenue streetscape

ST. LOUIS • Washington Avenue wasn’t supposed to look like this.

More than a decade ago, the city pumped about $17 million in state and federal tax dollars into renovating and beautifying the downtown street hugged by warehouses. The complicated face-lift was a nod to the street’s history as the center of the city’s garment and fashion industry.

The new streetscape was special: custom lights, unique trash cans, expanded sidewalks and a zipper-and-stitch-like paving pattern with LED-lit button “runway lights” striped down the center.

But the city has struggled since then to maintain the new look.

Now, essential design elements are starting to crumble, lights and sidewalks have been altered and the runway lights haven’t worked in more than a year. The unique stitch-like paving pattern is pocked with asphalt infill after recent underground work by Ameren.

“It’s a shame to have something so beautiful after so much work end up like this,” said Missy Kelley, chief executive of Downtown STL Inc.

The city says it simply doesn’t have the money to keep the street the way it was designed. So, for example, patchwork is often done with asphalt instead of the original materials. Public utilities tear up the street, but they are allowed to reimburse the city for repairs at rates meant for streets with fewer amenities.

[Gothamite]

Rereading the post, I think I may not have made myself clear. I wasn't saying that the city was bankrupt, or was in the process of going bankrupt. When I said

they'll keep sweetening the deal, giving more and more public money to the various kajillionaires, thinking there's a number where the NFL will accept it and force Kroenke to stay. Bankruptcy be damned.

I meant that they would keep dumping more and more public money into the riverfront project in the hopes of convincing the NFL to force Kroenke to stay, to the point where they wouldn't care if they bankrupted the city in the process. Hypothetically.

[STL FANATIC]

Yeah, you're fine. I don't mean to be too snappy over it. You know I get a little defensive over my city.

The quick summary is we have cash, but we we spend it poorly and have too many restraints on how it gets allocated. So we're nowhere near bankruptcy, but we do have many "needs" that aren't getting the attention they deserve.

Back to the Grubman interview, here's the audio: http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/eric-grubman-joins-bernie-to-talk-about-the-ongoing-la-stl-situation/

[Gothamite]

Thanks - looking forward to listening to it.

I hear you - I'm an infrastructure geek, and it drives me crazy that we as a country are so short-sighted as to spend money on big flashy things like sports stadiums while we let our infrastructure literally crumble. That's not just your city, that's all of us, and the nation as a whole. Washington Avenue sounds amazing, and it's criminal that they're (already) letting it rot.

Aren't the Alderpersons supposed to be voting soon? What's the story on that?

[STL FANATIC]

The Ways & Mean Committee will vote tomorrow some time. It's expected to be a 4-4 tie with the President of the Board of Alderman casting the deciding vote in favor of the stadium funding.

It will then move onto the full Board of Alderman. They'll pass it before the December 30th deadline because the Mayor has enough of "his people" on the board.

The W&M Committee had the best chance of blocking it, but it sounds like they're going to come up just short.

[TheRicSlick]

How to solve leaks: The Raider Way

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2015/12/9/9882270/if-you-dont-think-raiders-need-a-new-stadium-this-picture-might-convince-you

[The_Admiral]

Pride and Pepsi.

[DaytonBlue]

Yeah, they'll keep sweetening the deal, giving more and more public money to the various kajillionaires, thinking there's a number where the NFL will accept it and force Kroenke to stay. Bankruptcy be damned.

You've got to get a better grip on St. Louis finances. This would be bad for them, but this city is nowhere near bankruptcy. Nor is the state—though the Republican state legislature is trying their darndest.

You're right. All I can go with is what I read online, and I only check out the papers once in a while, so I admit I'm seeing a snapshot at best.

But from the outside, it sure seems like the city's not exactly flush with cash.

St. Louis struggles to maintain $17 million Washington Avenue streetscape

ST. LOUIS • Washington Avenue wasn’t supposed to look like this.

More than a decade ago, the city pumped about $17 million in state and federal tax dollars into renovating and beautifying the downtown street hugged by warehouses. The complicated face-lift was a nod to the street’s history as the center of the city’s garment and fashion industry.

The new streetscape was special: custom lights, unique trash cans, expanded sidewalks and a zipper-and-stitch-like paving pattern with LED-lit button “runway lights” striped down the center.

But the city has struggled since then to maintain the new look.

Now, essential design elements are starting to crumble, lights and sidewalks have been altered and the runway lights haven’t worked in more than a year. The unique stitch-like paving pattern is pocked with asphalt infill after recent underground work by Ameren.

“It’s a shame to have something so beautiful after so much work end up like this,” said Missy Kelley, chief executive of Downtown STL Inc.

The city says it simply doesn’t have the money to keep the street the way it was designed. So, for example, patchwork is often done with asphalt instead of the original materials. Public utilities tear up the street, but they are allowed to reimburse the city for repairs at rates meant for streets with fewer amenities.

Reading this makes me more annoyed to see Ameren ads at Blues games. Ameren's a freaking monopoly for electricity in STL.

[STL FANATIC]

Ya know, someone designed all those new Ameren MO Power Play graphics, and they probably don't appreciate the negativity.

(It was me.)

In all seriousness, I've heard (and not through the aforementioned connection) that this legitimately doesn't fall on Ameren. They weren't even asked to do it right, they're just paying the invoices. This was a (pitiful) city decision not to patch things appropriately.

[STL FANATIC]

The bill passes the committee. (Or it's about to. Not sure if the official vote has been taken, but the stances have been made clear.) Not even as tight as I expected. Votes were for sale, unfortunately.

Now moves on to the full board.