St. Louis Cardinals - Tweakapalooza

[SFGiants58]

I figured I could take a quick break from The Defunct Saga to do this.

 

While the Cardinals may have a perfect uniform set and identity as far as the big picture goes, it develops issues upon closer examination.

 

1. The birds became far too large on the uniforms once the team began using the digital version of the birds in 2013 (for consistency's sake). Here is the '90s-2012 set compared with the 2013-present design.

 

 

While it's a good change in principle, it looks kind of silly in practice. Not uniform-ruining (as some melodramatic people may claim), but it is an issue. 

 

2. The StL insignia is a bit of a jumbled mess. I've talked about this in another thread, so I'll quote myself:

 

On 7/6/2019 at 7:24 PM, SFGiants58 said:

 

Can we talk about all the various problems of the Cardinals’ StL marks?

 

 

I don’t like how the lower portion of the “S” doesn’t have a serif, nor do I care for how there isn’t enough “breathing space” between the “t” and the two top bars of the “S” in the design. While the Cardinals' current cap logo may be "untouchable," I'd argue that it could use some tweaking for consistency/personality. A design with cues from the 1940s-‘70s marks would be best.

 

I've done a fix-up in Project 32 that restored the back serif and resized a few details, but I don't think I went far enough. I wanted a longer bottom stroke on the "L" like in the various 1940s-80s designs both worn before and during the current design's tenue. 

 

  

 

I also wanted to bring in some differentiation between the letters, as used in the early-1970s:

 

 

3. Both "retro sets" could use condensing into one, a set that pays better homage to the 1940s period of the team:

 

 

 

The current whiffs by using a red cap, front numbers, yellow bats, and no T-bar stripes (I'm not going to get into the powder blue, as quite frankly, I'm not keen on them wearing it). They also use the "St. Louis" script, when that script should be on the road uniform.

 

My edits fix these problems.

 

Logo Sheet:

 

While the primary mark stays the same (I like that it's such a strong logo), the StL now has outlines that highlight the various interlocks in the design. The "L" is longer, the "T" has more breathing rooms, and the back serif returns. The sluggerbird design (which I debuted in Project 32, with some inspiration from @Htown1141) is now the tertiary. It's too good not to have in the identity!

 

 

Home and Road Uniforms:

 

These uniforms are an improvement upon my Project 32 design. I've restored the Rawlings Block NOB's (a lovely touch on their uniforms), smaller sock stripes (not this, even though the '60s socks had similar stripes), and the road cap. The road cap now has a red bill (like this fashion cap), as a way to bring it closer to the 1940-55 hat (one of my favorite designs in the sport) and compromise between the all-navy and red caps on the road. I also kept the "St. Louis" script on the road.

 

The birds-on-bat have received a notable overhaul, as I've shrunk the birds back to their '97-'12 size (linked above). I thickened the navy parts on them to match the outline width on the bat/wordmark. This involved turning each element into its own object and manually resizing it/adding clipping masks/filling in obscured elements.  

 

 

Alternates:

 

The retro alternate now has a more appropriate hat, a navy bat/yellow eyes and feet on the birds (like the 1940s wordmark), and the T-bars. I decided to keep the red hat/belt on the road as a "clash kit" to be worn against other teams with navy caps with extensive amounts of red (e.g., Atlanta, interleague against Cleveland, etc.). 

 

 

Jacket:

 

Sluggerbird makes his return to the jacket, while the striping pattern and the insignia are on the sleeves.

 

 

The comparison:

 

Here's a full old & new comparison:

 

 

I'd like to think that this is the refinement that the Cardinals' identity needs. C+C is appreciated, as always!

[Maroon]

No criticism regarding the ability and skill with which you made all of this. It's all very well done.

 

In terms of preferences, I like your retro uniforms better than the real ones used. Also have always loved a navy cap with red bill, so I support your use of that look.

 

In regards to the interlocking STL, I also prefer the serif and giving the T more room and like how you pulled it off. Can't say I'm a big fan of delineating the interlocking letters, though. I much prefer the current design's openness, which (in my opinion) makes it cleaner and less cluttered.

 

The thing I oppose the most, though, is making the road jerseys say "St. Louis." The "St. Louis" wordmark should really only be used on the alternate while the classic "Cardinals" should be the default for both home and the road.

[WSU151]

The over/under line work in the proposed hat logo just makes it messy. It'd be better if New Era's 3D/directional sewing techniques emphasized the over/under stuff without using actual lines.  

 

Changing the S so it has the serif at the bottom is definitely a better look, and makes the monogram less sterile than the current one. 

 

 

[vtgco]

I'm curious, for the cap monograms, did you try putting the outlines in the cap color?

It keeps the under/over aspects, and it might look cleaner than white outlines, which @Maroon & @WSU151 said are busy.

 

Also, as a side effect, the blue cap would look more like a throwback:

 

 

Good update (especially with the road script & throwback uniform!)

[SFGiants58]

15 minutes ago, vtgco said:

I'm curious, for the cap monograms, did you try putting the outlines in the cap color?

It keeps the under/over aspects, and it might look cleaner than white outlines, which @Maroon & @WSU151 said are busy.

 

Also, as a side effect, the blue cap would look more like a throwback:

 

 

Good update (especially with the road script & throwback uniform!)

 

Thanks! I did attempt this, but backed out after being unable to incorporate navy into the red cap without it looking like crap. I also prepared a no-outline version, which looks better than when the team tried it a few years ago.

 

 

21 hours ago, WSU151 said:

The over/under line work in the proposed hat logo just makes it messy. It'd be better if New Era's 3D/directional sewing techniques emphasized the over/under stuff without using actual lines.  

 

Changing the S so it has the serif at the bottom is definitely a better look, and makes the monogram less sterile than the current one. 

 

 

 

Thanks! The embroidery stage would probably be the best way to emphasize it, rather than the digital versions themselves.

 

23 hours ago, Maroon said:

No criticism regarding the ability and skill with which you made all of this. It's all very well done.

 

In terms of preferences, I like your retro uniforms better than the real ones used. Also have always loved a navy cap with red bill, so I support your use of that look.

 

In regards to the interlocking STL, I also prefer the serif and giving the T more room and like how you pulled it off. Can't say I'm a big fan of delineating the interlocking letters, though. I much prefer the current design's openness, which (in my opinion) makes it cleaner and less cluttered.

 

The thing I oppose the most, though, is making the road jerseys say "St. Louis." The "St. Louis" wordmark should really only be used on the alternate while the classic "Cardinals" should be the default for both home and the road.

 

Thanks! I'm glad you like it. I've prepped a version with an StL that has no interlocking outlines. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like that a tad more, as it improves upon the set without being as radical a departure. 

 

Regarding the "St. Louis" script, I've always been a proponent of having it on the road uniform. The name fits the birds-on-bat just fine. They don't have the "city name too long/team name implies the city" excuse of the Phillies or the "we have a complicated history with our city/state name" like the Angels. I don't think it's a critical part of their brand to use the sobriquet on the road uniform. 

[itsmb8]

5 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Thanks! I did attempt this, but backed out after being unable to incorporate navy into the red cap without it looking like crap. I also prepared a no-outline version, which looks better than when the team tried it a few years ago.

 

 

 

Thanks! The embroidery stage would probably be the best way to emphasize it, rather than the digital versions themselves.

 

 

Thanks! I'm glad you like it. I've prepped a version with an StL that has no interlocking outlines. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like that a tad more, as it improves upon the set without being as radical a departure. 

 

Regarding the "St. Louis" script, I've always been a proponent of having it on the road uniform. The name fits the birds-on-bat just fine. They don't have the "city name too long/team name implies the city" excuse of the Phillies or the "we have a complicated history with our city/state name" like the Angels. I don't think it's a critical part of their brand to use the sobriquet on the road uniform. 

 

First of all, you've reached perfection here.  Dont, I repeat, DONT, change anything to this at all.

 

And in regards to "St Louis" on the road, Ive always thought the Cards should use it too.  Teams like the Phils have way too long of a city name to put it on there which doesnt apply, and teams like the Angels and Rays have some issues regarding the city name so its best not to use it.  You could argue the team name looks better than the team name ala Milwaukee, but unlike Milwaukee, the St Louis and Cardinals wordmarks dont really look much different, so in this case St Louis should be used IMO.  

[vtgco]

12 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

Thanks! I did attempt this, but backed out after being unable to incorporate navy into the red cap without it looking like crap. I also prepared a no-outline version, which looks better than when the team tried it a few years ago.

Looks pretty great this way! I can't decide if this is better or worse than the current version without the over/under lines, so that's a good sign!

 

Besides, there was hardly any blue on the red cap anyways, so I think it's okay. Perhaps a blue squatchee would be enough...

[Maroon]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 1:08 PM, SFGiants58 said:

Thanks! I'm glad you like it. I've prepped a version with an StL that has no interlocking outlines. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like that a tad more, as it improves upon the set without being as radical a departure. 

 

Regarding the "St. Louis" script, I've always been a proponent of having it on the road uniform. The name fits the birds-on-bat just fine. They don't have the "city name too long/team name implies the city" excuse of the Phillies or the "we have a complicated history with our city/state name" like the Angels. I don't think it's a critical part of their brand to use the sobriquet on the road uniform. 

 

I have to second what @itsmb8 said - that interlocking StL is absolutely perfect. It's the ideal combination between the modern boldness and simplicity of the logo but with a more classic and clean look. Bravo. This is the content I've always needed but didn't even know I wanted.

Regarding the St. Louis script, I understand what you're saying, but for me the "Cardinals" script with the Bird on the Bat is the Cardinals jersey logo and the St. Louis script with the Birds on the Bat is the unnecessary alternate. It's not even that I don't like it, in fact, I was thrilled when they introduced it to the alternate fauxback jersey. But, to me, it's just that: an alternate for the sake of novelty, not a logo that is or should be equal to the script Cardinals as the road jersey logo. Whether or not St. Louis is a long city name or not really isn't relevant.

[BJ Sands]

This most recent iteration is perfect... except the Cards play in the NL Central.  The logo sheet says they play in the West.   

[SFGiants58]

41 minutes ago, BJ Sands said:

This most recent iteration is perfect... except the Cards play in the NL Central.  The logo sheet says they play in the West.   

 

Thanks!

 

Yeah, I’m still in the Project 32 mindset, where I realigned the divisions into two sets of eight:

 

West: Chicago, Colorado, Houston, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, St. Louis, San Diego, and San Francisco

 

East: Atlanta, Cincinnati, Miami, Montréal expansion, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington

 

I proposed that it’d be better to kill the centrals than do an NFL-style alignment.