uncle_wiggily Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Personally, I am with Suigi, I do not see the NHL ever making a comeback. If they do it will be a couple years down the road with a major loss of American fans and teams, virtually the entire south-east division will be wiped out, and even Canada they will out a lot of fans, more than likely including myself. However, I would like to see the league or a top professional league like the NHL, use a system similiar to that of European football. Use twenty or so teams in the "premier division," and have relegation rounds, etc. The AHL teams could be used as the "sub-divisions." These are my first twenty teams:BostonBuffaloCalgaryChicagoColoradoColumbusDetroitEdmontonMinnesotaMontrealNew York IslandersNew York RangersOttawaPittsburghQuebecSt. LouisTorontoVancouverWashingtonWinnipeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I find something wrong with that, there are some teams that are in the South-east, and southern division that will make it. I will say that Tampa Bay, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and San Jose to survive and now you have to include 4 more teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez Street Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I think the NHL will be back and few if any teams will be gone. The point of them locking out is to have more teams be able to make a profit. That's why they are risking a long term holdout. 2-4 teams maybe, but not this drastic 50-75% of the teams talk. By lowering ticket prices i think it will open the game up to WAY more people and allow the struggling markets to bring in new fans. The NHL or whatever, will be the new AFFORDABLE Pro-Sports entertainment option. Maybe i'm being an optimist, but i think this will turn out be very good in the long run. Oh, god......i'm sounding like Betteman.......the lynchmob will be after me soon. @DavidStreeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee. Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 These are my first twenty teams:BostonBuffaloCalgaryChicagoColoradoColumbusDetroitEdmontonMinnesotaMontrealNew York IslandersNew York RangersOttawaPittsburghQuebecSt. LouisTorontoVancouverWashingtonWinnipeg Where's New Jersey? Where's Philadelphia?Subbing the Devils in for the Isles, and Flyers for the Pens, and you have the start of something. Welcome to DrunjFlix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Buffalo Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 As for my view on the teams gone and what not. This is what I propose, and I will appologize now to any american hockey fans if I insult you in any way.NHL should fold. The only remaining teams should be the 6 canadian ones. These teams will form the top Canadian senior league in Canada. Those top 6 teams shall compete for the Stanley Cup. (after all it was meant for the top CANADIAN team). Below that league, there shall be a second division. There should be teams in Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec, Halifax, Regina/Saskatoon, and St. John's. They shall compete in their own league for their own championship. Once the season is over, the top team from the second division plays the bottom team in the premier division in a relegation/promotion game. My model for this is the NPC Rugby league in New Zealand. They actaully have 3 divisions. However, I do not believe that my "fantasy" Canadian league could support 3 divisions of compatiotion. That would dilute the talent pool, much like the NHL has already done. I can only guess that this suggestion is completely made "tongue in cheek" the NHL will never survive without American Markets and more important American Money. Look no further than the CFL. You've pretty much got teams in the cities you mention and the CFL has been on life support for some 10-15 years. Without the NFL's recent help the league as a whole may have disolved.An all Canadian Professional Hockey League would never fly, especially if the Owners of the American Teams created a competing league. The best players would still head to the better paying US league to play leaving the Canadian League with inferior talent (like the CFL to the NFL). There are of course a lot more rich bored old men in America than Canada who will end up owning teams so you know there will be more opportunities for rich paydays for the best players in the world on American Teams. At least with the Canadian and American markets in one league the Canadian cities have the same shot at the best talent.The sport may have been invented in Canada, but for it to be a major sport you need the American involvement. That might be a sad statement, but it's a true one.Now here is what I think will happen....The NHL will be back, with all teams still in place, around the middle of January. They play an abbreviated schedule this year. Then back to the full 82 game schedule next year. Will there be a salary cap, revenue sharing etc...? Yes in some form but I wouldn't even hazard a guess on how a bunch of old million and billionaires are going to spend their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolinaJoe Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 As for my view on the teams gone and what not. This is what I propose, and I will appologize now to any american hockey fans if I insult you in any way.NHL should fold. The only remaining teams should be the 6 canadian ones. These teams will form the top Canadian senior league in Canada. Those top 6 teams shall compete for the Stanley Cup. (after all it was meant for the top CANADIAN team). Below that league, there shall be a second division. There should be teams in Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec, Halifax, Regina/Saskatoon, and St. John's. They shall compete in their own league for their own championship. Once the season is over, the top team from the second division plays the bottom team in the premier division in a relegation/promotion game. My model for this is the NPC Rugby league in New Zealand. They actaully have 3 divisions. However, I do not believe that my "fantasy" Canadian league could support 3 divisions of compatiotion. That would dilute the talent pool, much like the NHL has already done. I can only guess that this suggestion is completely made "tongue in cheek" the NHL will never survive without American Markets and more important American Money. Look no further than the CFL. You've pretty much got teams in the cities you mention and the CFL has been on life support for some 10-15 years. Without the NFL's recent help the league as a whole may have disolved.An all Canadian Professional Hockey League would never fly, especially if the Owners of the American Teams created a competing league. The best players would still head to the better paying US league to play leaving the Canadian League with inferior talent (like the CFL to the NFL). There are of course a lot more rich bored old men in America than Canada who will end up owning teams so you know there will be more opportunities for rich paydays for the best players in the world on American Teams. At least with the Canadian and American markets in one league the Canadian cities have the same shot at the best talent.The sport may have been invented in Canada, but for it to be a major sport you need the American involvement. That might be a sad statement, but it's a true one.Now here is what I think will happen....The NHL will be back, with all teams still in place, around the middle of January. They play an abbreviated schedule this year. Then back to the full 82 game schedule next year. Will there be a salary cap, revenue sharing etc...? Yes in some form but I wouldn't even hazard a guess on how a bunch of old million and billionaires are going to spend their money. Hell, even the Original 6 was 2/3 American teams. "It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of thepress. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom ofspeech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given usthe freedom to demonstrate. And it is the soldier who salutes theflag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, andwho allows the protester to burn the flag."Marine Chaplain Dennis Edward O' Brien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Lowering the cost of the ticket would only achieve one thing in some of the sold-out cities like Toronto: Richer Scalpers.Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to afford a "mini-season ticket pack" of 5-10 games, but the leafs have been supporting the scalpers for so long, there will never be such a need. @Frenchie_TO Owner of the Rochester Americans of the MLH Owner of the Toronto Frenchies of the GCFHL6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 How about this idea: any team who has won a Stanley Cup gets to stay (what could be considered a "tradition" factor), while the rest of the teams have to put their names in a hat? or... for a few years in a row, we contract the last team, until wwe get to a number that's acceptable... let's say 6... (more like 24-28).Or lat team gets sent down to the A for a year, with all its players, and they take a pay cut... here's an incentive to actually show up to all the games...Let's face it, how do you motivate an underachiever millionnaire? an extra million bonus? sorry, but if the first 5 didn't do it... @Frenchie_TO Owner of the Rochester Americans of the MLH Owner of the Toronto Frenchies of the GCFHL6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolinaJoe Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Lowering the cost of the ticket would only achieve one thing in some of the sold-out cities like Toronto: Richer Scalpers.Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to afford a "mini-season ticket pack" of 5-10 games, but the leafs have been supporting the scalpers for so long, there will never be such a need. The only ones who never seem to save any money during these labor disputes is the Fans. If anything prices will go up to try and regain lost revenue.Salary Cap, hell. We need a Ticket Cap& Concessions Cap. Who is the fans representative in the negotiations? "It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of thepress. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom ofspeech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given usthe freedom to demonstrate. And it is the soldier who salutes theflag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, andwho allows the protester to burn the flag."Marine Chaplain Dennis Edward O' Brien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsfannova Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Lowering the cost of the ticket would only achieve one thing in some of the sold-out cities like Toronto: Richer Scalpers.Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to afford a "mini-season ticket pack" of 5-10 games, but the leafs have been supporting the scalpers for so long, there will never be such a need. The only ones who never seem to save any money during these labor disputes is the Fans. If anything prices will go up to try and regain lost revenue.Salary Cap, hell. We need a Ticket Cap& Concessions Cap. Who is the fans representative in the negotiations? That I think is the key to negotaitions. Tell the fans that if the owners get their way, 25% off everything. It would put WAyyyy to much pressure on the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlinfan Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 do you guys know how many canadians live in miami-ft. lauderdale area. the panthers simply suck and are going around in circles, if they would win more games people would watch them. 1997 | 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee. Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Lowering the cost of the ticket would only achieve one thing in some of the sold-out cities like Toronto: Richer Scalpers.Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to afford a "mini-season ticket pack" of 5-10 games, but the leafs have been supporting the scalpers for so long, there will never be such a need. The only ones who never seem to save any money during these labor disputes is the Fans. If anything prices will go up to try and regain lost revenue.Salary Cap, hell. We need a Ticket Cap& Concessions Cap. Who is the fans representative in the negotiations? Both cases, unfortunately, are simply supply and demand. The owners got themselves into this mess when they started paying players stupid amounts of money in the first place, without worrying about how they would pay them (Thank you, St Louis and Bruce McNall).In the case of ticket and concession prices, again, as long as teams/building managers raise the prices, and as long as people buy the product, they will continue to rise. Is $3.00 for a bottle of Coke too much? Of course it is. Is $230 Cdn for a pro-fit Moose jersey too much? Of course it is. But people will continue to pay for these things.(Of course, I also think that the $4.50 Cdn that CanadInns Stadium charges for a beer to be too much as well, but then I think of some of the NFL cities where that would be a steal, so I don't bitch too loudly about that.) Welcome to DrunjFlix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolinaJoe Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Make all contracts performance based. Have them like a salesman, draw/ commision. Have a small guaranteed base. You don't produce, you don't eat. Guarantee would be 10% of previous years salary, in case of injuries. Insurance would cover lost injured wages.Game played- $5,000Win-$5,000 BonusTie-$2,000 BonusLoss- $0Goal-$25,000Assist-$12,000PPG-$5,000 BonusPPA-$2,000 BonusSHG-$10,000 BonusSHA-$5,000 BonusGWG-$10,000GTG-$5,000SOG-$100(+/-)- $1,000Penalty Shot made-$2,000 BonusPenalty Shot miss-$2,000 deductionPIMs- come up with a system of good penalties & bad penalties with bonuses and deductions. Probably handled by a kangaroo court internally.So D-men don't get screwed bring back blocks and hits.Saves- $500Win- $25,000Shut Out-$25,000Assist-$25,000Goal-$50,000Ties-$12000Adjust it some for specialist like faceoffs and the such.Double it for the playoffs.Under this plan Detroit would have spent about $29 million in the regular season and about anothe $4 million in the playoffs.St.Louis- $2.3 Reg. $1.5 Playyoffs-$3.8 TotalIginla- $2.6 Reg. $1.4 Playoffs $4 totalBrodeur- $2.6 Reg. $.3 playoffs $2.9 totalKipper- $1.4 Reg. $1.9 playoffs $3.3 totalLuongo- $1.5 Reg No playoffsPlan puts incentive on winning and scoring. Numbers can be increased, just a starting point. Even if you increase them by 1.3 that still puts one of the most expensive teams at $38 million for the year.Ticket price start a certain point at start of season than are adjusted for team winning percentage. Team loses, price goes down. Team wins, price goes up. Price adjustment would apply to everything in the arena- concessions, merchandise, programs, anything they sell. Then a team that is a loser can stillget fans in the seats at a discounted price, and winning teams make a little more. Remember it is a business. "It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of thepress. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom ofspeech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given usthe freedom to demonstrate. And it is the soldier who salutes theflag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, andwho allows the protester to burn the flag."Marine Chaplain Dennis Edward O' Brien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEAD! Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I was thinking of is have the base salary, about 10% less than what current salaries, but only have incentives based on wins and ties. If we go with goals, assists etc. then we would have selfish players who only look out to pad their stats, but not necessarily help the team. Let's say $7500 per win and $3000 for at tie.Or perhpas have a total purse of about, say $150 000 per game. If a team wins in regulation, they get $150 000. A tie, each team get $75 000. A team wins in OT $120 000, OTL $30 000.And the purse would increase when the playoffs startConference QF - $200 000 per gameConference SF - $250 000Conference Final $300 000Stanley Cup Final $400 000 I saw, I came, I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 The only ones who never seem to save any money during these labor disputes is the Fans. If anything prices will go up to try and regain lost revenue.Salary Cap, hell. We need a Ticket Cap& Concessions Cap. Who is the fans representative in the negotiations? I'll shamelessly "plug" another group again:the National Hockey League Fans' Association have been getting a lot of media attention these days, and are even getting some considerations from Mr.Bettman (...)Check it out, this is very well ran, very professional.There may be hope for the fans... @Frenchie_TO Owner of the Rochester Americans of the MLH Owner of the Toronto Frenchies of the GCFHL6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamesfan89 Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 Here's my idea:- Put in a salary cap of 35 million per team.- Get the average salary down to 1.1 million.- Go back to the same rulebook used in the 1987/88 season.(Getting rid of instigator rule, going back to 1 ref system, going back to orignal rink dimensions etc.)- Make goalie equipment smaller as they were going to do.- Have lower ticket prices than other three pro leauges.- Cut five teams for now.- Add three expansion teams in the several years.- Expand to 30 teams after the popularity of the game has grown enough.Campbell (Western) ConferencePacific Division-L.A.-Portland -Vancouver-Calgary-Edmonton-WinnepegMidwest Division-Minnesota-St. Louis-Chicago-Detroit-Milwaulkee-Dallas-HoustonWales (Eastern) ConferenceNortheast Division-Toronto-Montreal-Ottawa-Columbus-Boston-BuffaloAtlantic Division-New York Rangers-New York Islanders-Pittisburgh-Philadelpia-Atlanta-Hartford/New Jersey*Possible future expansion to Chicago, Seattle, Pheonix, Quebec City, San Francisco or Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolinaJoe Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 I like how every model has Quebec and Winnipeg, and most have Hartford. I appreciate the traditionalist in everyone, but isn't there a reason these cities no longer have teams? Maybe it was lack of support when they were there the first time.What most suggest is taking a bad team and sticking then back into a market that didn't support a bad team in the first place. This won't help anyone.What needs to be done is an ubiased research and report on why some teams are failing. Is it management, market, salaries, or what have you. If it's a solvable problem get it taken care of or have the team relocated. But in relocating they have to be 100% sure a team will survive for the long run; not just a couple seasons because a city is glad to have a team back, then once they start losing abandon them. "It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of thepress. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom ofspeech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given usthe freedom to demonstrate. And it is the soldier who salutes theflag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, andwho allows the protester to burn the flag."Marine Chaplain Dennis Edward O' Brien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsfannova Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 Hartford shouldn't have a team, and Quebec is a long shot (The PA would hate a team there). Winnipeg, though, is a great choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 I like how every model has Quebec and Winnipeg, and most have Hartford. I appreciate the traditionalist in everyone, but isn't there a reason these cities no longer have teams? Maybe it was lack of support when they were there the first time. The reasons Winnipeg lost the Jets?1) Bettman wanted teams in strategic American markets to capitalize on the forthcoming TV windfall that never came.2) The Jets couldn't find local ownership stupid enough to ignore the major issues the NHL was having back then controlling salaries and a very out-of-whack business model.3) No lack of local support! Name one other team where the fans pitched in the money necessary to keep their team around for another year after all ownership groups had given up and all indications were that the Jets would not exist the next year?4) An outdated arena hurt Winnipeg's ability to generate competitive revenue.5) Attendance wasn't through the roof for most of the regular season, I can admit that. But I blame that mostly on soaring ticket prices. The fact that we only had 5 +.500 teams in 17 years puts the fact that our attendance problems weren't even that bad in perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsfannova Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 My turn!WALES CONFRENCEEastMontrealOttawaTorontoBostonNew YorkPhilladelphiaWestDetroitChicagoMinnesotaVancouverEdmontonCalgaryCAMPBELL CONFRENCEEastBuffaloLong IslandTampaAtlantaColumbusNew JerseyWestSt. LouisKansas CityColoradoLASan JoseDallas6 Games in Division=30 games4 games against other division=244 games against selected rival=41 game against the rest of the other confrence=11Total=69 GamesTop 4 in each division make playoffs (Just like the 80's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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