Washington football concept

[puckcool22]

I have no problem using a native american reference for sports teams, but the word redskins is rediculous. It refers to the bloody scalp people used to bring back and give to the government, who would them pay them for killing an indian. I think something like the word natives should be used instead. Feel free to comment on the name issue, but please also say what you think of this concept.

[ltravisjr]

Thanks for the interesting historical tidbit - honestly. I never knew that. About the name change, I don't know. The whole indian name thing doesn't really bother me one way or the other.

Anway, on the concept - it is alright but the helmet is missing something without the indian head. If the team is called the natives, I don't see why it cannot remain as the team is still named after "indians". Anyway, if you really want to delete the head, how about leaving the feathers, but replace the head part with a stylized football shape? I think that might be kinda cool...

LT

[Shmee]

I have no problem using a native american reference for sports teams, but the word redskins is rediculous. It refers to the bloody scalp people used to bring back and give to the government, who would them pay them for killing an indian. I think something like the word natives should be used instead. Feel free to comment on the name issue, but please also say what you think of this concept.

Or, maybe, it's referring to the unique skin color of many Native Americans? The team was originally called the Braves, obviously a nickname celebrating the strength and dignity of Native Americans. Why would the team suddenly switch to a hateful, violent name that belittles Native culture? If you can provide a reputable source for your version of the meaning of the Redskins' nickname, I'll believe it. Until then, I think you're just doing a bit of revisionist history.

I like everything but the helmet. Those feathers aren't large enough, in my tastes, to constitute an entire helmet logo.

[DarthMan]

this is a nice concept, but the healmet leaves something to be desired

[puckcool22]

I have no problem using a native american reference for sports teams, but the word redskins is rediculous.  It refers to the bloody scalp people used to bring back and give to the government, who would them pay them for killing an indian.  I think something like the word natives should be used instead.  Feel free to comment on the name issue, but please also say what you think of this concept.

Or, maybe, it's referring to the unique skin color of many Native Americans? The team was originally called the Braves, obviously a nickname celebrating the strength and dignity of Native Americans. Why would the team suddenly switch to a hateful, violent name that belittles Native culture? If you can provide a reputable source for your version of the meaning of the Redskins' nickname, I'll believe it. Until then, I think you're just doing a bit of revisionist history.

I like everything but the helmet. Those feathers aren't large enough, in my tastes, to constitute an entire helmet logo.

My source is TV. HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel

[OMMF]

I have no problem using a native american reference for sports teams, but the word redskins is rediculous.  It refers to the bloody scalp people used to bring back and give to the government, who would them pay them for killing an indian.  I think something like the word natives should be used instead.  Feel free to comment on the name issue, but please also say what you think of this concept.

Or, maybe, it's referring to the unique skin color of many Native Americans?

Even still, you wouldn't honor Asians by calling them the Yellowskins, would you?

Last I checked, my skin was a dark brown, not red. Although I'm getting that way from reading this.

[Shmee]

I have no problem using a native american reference for sports teams, but the word redskins is rediculous.  It refers to the bloody scalp people used to bring back and give to the government, who would them pay them for killing an indian.  I think something like the word natives should be used instead.  Feel free to comment on the name issue, but please also say what you think of this concept.

Or, maybe, it's referring to the unique skin color of many Native Americans?

Even still, you wouldn't honor Asians by calling them the Yellowskins, would you?

Last I checked, my skin was a dark brown, not red. Although I'm getting that way from reading this.

If you're implying that I'm a racist, you're reading too much into what I said. Forgive me for not being hypersensitive in my first post.

I'm not saying that the name Redskins is necessarily honorable, I'm saying that as far as I've known in the past, it was referring to the (obviously exaggerated) skin tone of many native peoples, not the process of government-sponsored murder for hire.

[philly97flyer]

REDSKINDS MUST STAY FOREVER, and thats coming from an Eagles fan. NO PC!

[jamesjduncan]

Or, maybe, it's referring to the unique skin color of many Native Americans? The team was originally called the Braves, obviously a nickname celebrating the strength and dignity of Native Americans. Why would the team suddenly switch to a hateful, violent name that belittles Native culture? If you can provide a reputable source for your version of the meaning of the Redskins' nickname, I'll believe it. Until then, I think you're just doing a bit of revisionist history.

Okay, Redskins is derogatory. How about the Boston Micks? That's gotta ring to it. Or better yet, how about the Atlanta Darkies? I mean, they are kinda dark, aren't they?

I'm not trying to be rude, I just wanted to accentuate the point that Redskins isn't the best name for a club. Neither is Braves, for that matter. Now, I won't be at Turner Field protesting next season, but I have always felt those names should be changed, as they are slightly questionable.

As far as the uniform. I like the concept itself, but I would like to see a different font. Perhaps something a little narrower, like what the Skins' use now.

[OMMF]

REDSKINDS MUST STAY FOREVER, and thats coming from an Eagles fan. NO PC!

Why such an attachment to a team name? Does anyone even remember the Bullets anymore? It's just a name. I'm not saying change every name whenever you want but the argument against should be more than just "'Cause."

[MC Buffalo]

I have no problem using a native american reference for sports teams, but the word redskins is rediculous.  It refers to the bloody scalp people used to bring back and give to the government, who would them pay them for killing an indian.  I think something like the word natives should be used instead.  Feel free to comment on the name issue, but please also say what you think of this concept.

Or, maybe, it's referring to the unique skin color of many Native Americans?

Even still, you wouldn't honor Asians by calling them the Yellowskins, would you?

Last I checked, my skin was a dark brown, not red. Although I'm getting that way from reading this.

If you're implying that I'm a racist, you're reading too much into what I said. Forgive me for not being hypersensitive in my first post.

I'm not saying that the name Redskins is necessarily honorable, I'm saying that as far as I've known in the past, it was referring to the (obviously exaggerated) skin tone of many native peoples, not the process of government-sponsored murder for hire.

I have no problem using a native american reference for sports teams, but the word redskins is rediculous.  It refers to the bloody scalp people used to bring back and give to the government, who would them pay them for killing an indian.  I think something like the word natives should be used instead.  Feel free to comment on the name issue, but please also say what you think of this concept.

Or, maybe, it's referring to the unique skin color of many Native Americans?

Even still, you wouldn't honor Asians by calling them the Yellowskins, would you?

Last I checked, my skin was a dark brown, not red. Although I'm getting that way from reading this.

If you're implying that I'm a racist, you're reading too much into what I said. Forgive me for not being hypersensitive in my first post.

I'm not saying that the name Redskins is necessarily honorable, I'm saying that as far as I've known in the past, it was referring to the (obviously exaggerated) skin tone of many native peoples, not the process of government-sponsored murder for hire.

OMMF,

I think you jumped on Schmee way to quick. When I read his post I thought he was questioning the origin of the name not making a statement of fact about Native American skin tone.

I am a Native American (Cherokee Tribe). I have always been under the impression that the name comes from the skin tone of some Native American Tribes and not from the origin given by Puckcool. It's a fact that many people who are of certain Native Bloodlines have a very distinct Reddish-Brown Hue to their skin. I, like Schmee do not necessarily condone the name Redskins, but let's not crucify Schmee for asking a legitimate question about the origin of the name.

Although I will also freely admit that as a person of Cherokee decent, I DO NOT find any of the Sports Names or Logos offensive.

Puckcool,

I wouldn't put too much stock in HBO or Bryant Gumbel when it comes to facts, they have been known to "play with" and manipulate facts to fit whatever expose they happen to working on. Makes for riveting TV (or so they think) but barely resembles true journalism most of the time.

As far as your design, the helmet definitely needs something else. maybe more like the early 70's version with the R in a circle with a feather, but since you want to change the name put a W (for Washington) or DC in the circle. You could also go with more of a full headdress. My fantasy football team in the G'DFFL is the Canady Cherokee and here is what my helmet is.....

[MC Buffalo]

Okay, Redskins is derogatory. How about the Boston Micks? That's gotta ring to it. Or better yet, how about the Atlanta Darkies? I mean, they are kinda dark, aren't they?

I'm not trying to be rude, I just wanted to accentuate the point that Redskins isn't the best name for a club. Neither is Braves, for that matter. Now, I won't be at Turner Field protesting next season, but I have always felt those names should be changed, as they are slightly questionable.

As far as the uniform. I like the concept itself, but I would like to see a different font. Perhaps something a little narrower, like what the Skins' use now.

JamesJ,

I have said all along that as a Native American that none of these names offend me (and usually it leads to a personal attack, but that's another issue about respect and tolerance). However I can see and justify people's arguments against Redskins, but definitely not Braves.

Is it not true that the name Brave is now used to mean someone who shows courage under duress. If an Indian Brave is reverred as a fierce Warrior than this should be a "proud" label to carry.

If need be to keep oversensitive people happy, do away with Reskins, but Braves and Warriors should be left alone.

By the way, why isn't there a movement under way to change the University of Notre Dame's name. The Fighting Irish. Are we to assume ALL Irishmen are leprechauns who like to fight?

[The_Admiral]

Like I said before, "redskin" seems like sort of an archaic term and it isn't in that same pantheon of racial epithets as people hypothetically suggest for teams.

[Cashcleaner]

Actually as it turns out, all Irish ARE little Leprachauns dressed in green who have a panchant for fistacuffsmanship.

Who'd have thought?

Cool logo though.

Oh, and not being Amerindian myself, I must admit though, that I think the term Redskin isn't exactly the most respectful name one can give to an ethnic group. And as far as I know, it's derived from the reddish/brown hue many of the natives group share for their complexion. The same goes to calling someone "Yellow" as the Chinese and Japanese immigrants to Western Canada and the USA were thought to have been wimps and weaklings compared to the rougher American and Canadian settlers, though as it turns out, they were just really polite. A Yellowman was basically a Chinese person and eventually Yellow became a insult.

And that's the end of my cutural anaylsis for today.

[The_Admiral]

As wrong as the name may be, at this point, it's grandfathered in. I think we've all known "Redskins" is offensive, but it's a little late in the game to just change it out of nowhere.

[P.I.L.L.]

gdffl86,

although it's missing something,( perhaps the script R in the center ) , I really like that head dress logo concept for the REDS kins... speaking of which, I was thinking it would be a good will compromise to simply drop SKINS from the name, and just be the Washington Reds , which has much more class / honor anyway, and ofcourse wouldn't infringe on Cincinnati ~ as it's a different sport, just as Rangers, Giants, Cardinals, etc. share names...

[The_Admiral]

"Washington Reds" makes me think of the 1950s State Department.

[puckcool22]

All racial talk aside- the headdress has given me an idea. What if instead of helmet stripes, the redskins helmet used headdress feathers like the eagles use wings and the seahawks wrap around and the vikings horn. The eagles wings is the closest to what im thinking of i guess.

Im not really good with logos so if anyone wants to try that out i think that would look cool if you understand what i mean.

[Saintsfan]

Yeah Reds may not be the most appropriate name for a team from Washington. Mind you Redskins isn't really either. They were oringinally called 'Red Indians' because of the red dye (ochre I think?) They used oin there faces, so I don't know about the voracity of the bloody scalps to washington sorry (not that i am doubting it!)

I like your helmet by the way, just not sure about the black on the uniforn personally.

[Phil]

Woah! PC Debate breaks out on Sports Logos board!

Time to call in the Official Political Correctness Debate thread!

You may wonder why we instituted such a thread? It makes it easy for moderators to moderate a single threat, as opposed to a bunch of little ones that break out like Election-time political discussions.

So keep this thread focused on the concept, and if you have something to say re: the PC debate, use the link above to find the appropriate thread!

Thank you!