USFL.... in 2005?

[mustangdmg]

What if USFL didn't exist in the 80's but instead established in 2005? Would they survive? Lots of factors involved. Arena football wouldn't exist without the USFL in the concept of playing football in summers. Media today are much different than it was in the 80's; internet and gazillions of sports channels on cable.

[pcgd]

What if USFL didn't exist in the 80's but instead established in 2005? Would they survive? Lots of factors involved. Arena football wouldn't exist without the USFL in the concept of playing football in summers. Media today are much different than it was in the 80's; internet and gazillions of sports channels on cable.

see XFL

[Saintsfan]

What if USFL didn't exist in the 80's but instead established in 2005? Would they survive? Lots of factors involved. Arena football wouldn't exist without the USFL in the concept of playing football in summers. Media today are much different than it was in the 80's; internet and gazillions of sports channels on cable.

see XFL

Yeah, fabricated leagues set up to compete with an established league, like the NFL, NBA, MLB or when it gets going again the NHL, just aren't going to last. It might be fun to think about it, but say a football league without the SF 49ers or Dallas Cowboys or New England Patriots or Miami Dolphins etc etc isn't gonna compete succesfully against one who has those teams in it.

[mustangdmg]

Everyone knew XFL was a joke. It was entertainment, not a sporting event.

What about Arena ball? They've been around for almost or already 20 years. I'd say they're successful.

[Saintsfan]

Everyone knew XFL was a joke. It was entertainment, not a sporting event.

What about Arena ball? They've been around for almost or already 20 years. I'd say they're successful.

Yeah but the USFL would be competing with the NFL like it or not, and at the end of the day another 'major' football league isn't going to fly. Maybe as a minor league if it was handled right but other wise no.

[CaolinaJoe]

Everyone knew XFL was a joke. It was entertainment, not a sporting event.

What about Arena ball? They've been around for almost or already 20 years. I'd say they're successful.

I wouldn't consider Arena Football, direct NFL competition.

Arena is where guys go when they can't make an NFL team. I doubt it is many guys initial destination when the first start playing football. How many guys become NFL stars and go to Arena? Arena is like the CFL for most football players, an option, not a choice.

[Mac the Knife]

I have to disagree. The USFL was the right idea, started at the right time back in '83. If it started today though, after the XFL debacle, it probably wouldn't fly. But at the time, the press gave it almost as much ink as the XFL got, only without the jaundiced "This is a Vince McMahon production so its gonna suck" mind set.

A USFL concept in 2005 would work, but not in the 12 cities that were part of the original league and only if they (1) had a solid ownership group, each of which were worth 9 figures and each of which understood that they're going to lose $50 million apiece to establish the league, (2) had an absolute, rock-hard salary cap, and (3) a network (or at minimum, ESPN) television deal.

I wouldn't try to compete in Boston, Philadelphia, Tampa, or Denver, but would definitely put franchises in the remaining eight cities (New Jersey, Washington, Chicago, Detroit, Birmingham, Los Angeles, Oakland, and Phoenix), and replace the four with a mix of cities the league added in '84 (Memphis and Jacksonville) with markets the original league wanted to hit but couldn't for one reason or another get teams into (Seattle and San Diego).

[yh]

I've always felt like an outdoor spring football league could work so long as the majority of the markets were not NFL markets and the teams played in smaller stadiums that would be easier to fill (like some of the new MLS stadiums being built). This is my idea for a new USFL:

Atlantic Div:

New Jersey

Raleigh-Durham

Orlando

Ft. Lauderdale

Southern Div:

Louisville

Memphis

Birmingham

Richmond

Northern Div:

Columbus

Toledo

Chicago

Milwaukee

Western Div:

Los Angeles

Sacramento

Salt Lake City

Portland

Echoing prior statements, you'd need a hard cap and some aggressive, innovative marketing (targeting families and getting strong promotional tie-ins from well heeled sponsors), and, naturally, dynamite logo and uniform packages produced exclusively by CCSLC members.

[CaolinaJoe]

Put them in places with Division II football stadiums. Of course in towns that support those schools.

[NJTank]

It would look like ABA and WHA that are trying to start up now.

[Mac the Knife]

Not with owners with at least $100 million in the bank and $50 million letters of credit, it wouldn't...

[Saintsfan]

I still don't think any league could challenge the NFL, but as I say, make the USFL a minor league and it might fly. As long as it didn't try to be anything that it can't possibvly manage then fine.

[Diablo de Tejas]

Everyone knew XFL was a joke. It was entertainment, not a sporting event.

What about Arena ball? They've been around for almost or already 20 years. I'd say they're successful.

I wouldn't consider Arena Football, direct NFL competition.

Arena is where guys go when they can't make an NFL team. I doubt it is many guys initial destination when the first start playing football. How many guys become NFL stars and go to Arena? Arena is like the CFL for most football players, an option, not a choice.

Actually, the NFL is getting it's hands on the arena a little bit. Jerry Jones owns the Dallas Desperados. In all the Dallas Cowboy pro shops, there is Desperados gear. They do alot of cross branding. I think there is another NFL owner the owns an AFL team.

[See Red]

Everyone knew XFL was a joke. It was entertainment, not a sporting event.

What about Arena ball? They've been around for almost or already 20 years. I'd say they're successful.

I wouldn't consider Arena Football, direct NFL competition.

Arena is where guys go when they can't make an NFL team. I doubt it is many guys initial destination when the first start playing football. How many guys become NFL stars and go to Arena? Arena is like the CFL for most football players, an option, not a choice.

Actually, the NFL is getting it's hands on the arena a little bit. Jerry Jones owns the Dallas Desperados. In all the Dallas Cowboy pro shops, there is Desperados gear. They do alot of cross branding. I think there is another NFL owner the owns an AFL team.

Pat Bowlen (owner of the Broncos) is a part owner of the Colorado Crush along with John Elway.

[GeneralW91]

Arthur Blank owns the Georgia Force.

[jkrdevil]

The USFL set up like the pre-trump years would work. Stay in the spring and not go over board with salaries and build a brand. Much like the Arena Football League has done. The USFL failed when Trump became an owner and slaries went up and they tried to compete with the NFL.

[Mac the Knife]

The USFL set up like the pre-trump years would work. Stay in the spring and not go over board with salaries and build a brand. Much like the Arena Football League has done. The USFL failed when Trump became an owner and slaries went up and they tried to compete with the NFL.

That plus the original ownership groups didn't have either (1) the ability to sustain financial losses while building the brand and product, or (2) the willingness to do so.

The USFL made some gargantuan business mistakes that, had they panned out, would've been seen as innovative and revolutionary. They basically gambled and lost. Even still, ownership groups in Jacksonville, Memphis, Arizona and several other cities could've easily survived, and eventually prospered, had the league not tried to move to a fall schedule.

[dfwabel]

The USFL set up like the pre-trump years would work. Stay in the spring and not go over board with salaries and build a brand. Much like the Arena Football League has done. The USFL failed when Trump became an owner and slaries went up and they tried to compete with the NFL.

That plus the original ownership groups didn't have either (1) the ability to sustain financial losses while building the brand and product, or (2) the willingness to do so.

The USFL made some gargantuan business mistakes that, had they panned out, would've been seen as innovative and revolutionary. They basically gambled and lost. Even still, ownership groups in Jacksonville, Memphis, Arizona and several other cities could've easily survived, and eventually prospered, had the league not tried to move to a fall schedule.

They had people who had money. John Basset owned the Tampa Bay Bandits, Alfred Taumban (of shopping mall and Southerby's scandall fame) owned the Michigan Panthers. Originally they did have a salary cap, then spending got out of control, but to the attempt to go to the fall.

Remember they did win their case verses the NFL, but only received $3 in damages. I think it $1 in compensatory and $2 in punitive damages, but it could have been reversed.

The thought of playing on D-2 facilities is a no-no. First off, you cannot sell alcohol. Most schools do not own liquor licenses. Secondly, people will insantly think "second rate" or minor league. Sadly, there could be no complete clauses for these new facilities, but then if it was th spring, then cities might see the additional revenue of 6-8 more home dates. Raleigh-Durham could not support the Skyhawks of the first edition of the World League. No second chance from me.

[Mac the Knife]

They had people who had money. John Basset owned the Tampa Bay Bandits, Alfred Taumban (of shopping mall and Southerby's scandall fame) owned the Michigan Panthers. Originally they did have a salary cap, then spending got out of control, but to the attempt to go to the fall.

Yeah, but they also had the likes of James Hoffman, Randy Vataha, George (I think it was George) Cannizaro, Logan Young, Myles Tannenbaum, Ted Dietrich, Tad Taube, Clinton Manges, and Berl Bernhard among their ownership: guys who admittedly had more jack than you or I, but didn't have anywhere near the resources needed to stick around and make the USFL viable.

And Basset, BTW, went broke as owner of the Bandits. Dying of cancer he stopped paying league assessments during the early part of 1985, forcing the league ultimately to basically (though not formally) take control of the franchise. Partner Stephen Arky did so well for himself that he wound up taking his own life. Marvin Warner in Birmingham's story is rather close to Basset's and Taubman's, in that in the end he (1) was broke, then (2) went to jail for fraud and embezzlement.

The $3 award was $1 in compensatory damages, tripled under federal law to $3. The actual check when written, including interest, was $3.76, and its currently in a desk drawer belonging to Steve Ehrhart, formerly of the Memphis Showboats. The league also got attorney's fees of around $3 million... in 1988.