Bertuzzi's Back!

[Roger Clemente]

Well, here's the clip. Notice that Bertuzzi, after punching him used his left arm to drive Moore into the ice head first, then after he hit the ice, Bertuzzi punched him in the head again.

http://www.worldamericandesigns.com/bertuzzi-moore.wmv

Are you 100% certain that is what broke his neck? Would you be willing to say so in the court of law?

I think the blow of the first punch is what knocked Moore out cold. Bertuzzi was still holding onto Moore, but Moore's sudden lack of self-stability dragged Bertuzzi with him to the ice. I think it was the other players piling on top of Bertuzzi that broke Moore's neck.

Tony Granato had no business sending Moore out onto the ice with 10 minutes left in a game where it's already 8-2 and everybody knows that Moore is a walking target. He should be equally accountable.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[Neon_Matrix]

Well, here's the clip. Notice that Bertuzzi, after punching him used his left arm to drive Moore into the ice head first, then after he hit the ice, Bertuzzi punched him in the head again.

http://www.worldamericandesigns.com/bertuzzi-moore.wmv

Moore just went limp after the first punch...which got him in the helmet... and I mean Bertuzzi had no choice but to go down with Moore...he stopped moving his feat, thus causing Bertuzzi to fall on top. And he was hardly punching him when Moore was on the ground, he was trying to brace himself to get back on his feet, then the Avs player came in on his right so he had to move to brace himself for impact. I mean watch, Moore doesnt even make a move to stop himself from hitting the ice, his right hand just goes under him, and his left arm just stays where it is...

[Neon_Matrix]

Well, here's the clip. Notice that Bertuzzi, after punching him used his left arm to drive Moore into the ice head first, then after he hit the ice, Bertuzzi punched him in the head again.

http://www.worldamericandesigns.com/bertuzzi-moore.wmv

Are you 100% certain that is what broke his neck? Would you be willing to say so in the court of law?

I think the blow of the first punch is what knocked Moore out cold. Bertuzzi was still holding onto Moore, but Moore's sudden lack of self-stability dragged Bertuzzi with him to the ice. I think it was the other players piling on top of Bertuzzi that broke Moore's neck.

Tony Granato had no business sending Moore out onto the ice with 10 minutes left in a game where it's already 8-2 and everybody knows that Moore is a walking target. He should be equally accountable.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

Good to see someone else sees what actually happened. Didnt Moore also say he didnt remember what happened? Which makes sense if your knocked out while still skating...otherwise he would remember falling to the ice...

[GMac]

actually being a concussion case myself... Playing againts Minot, ND (loved those games against the yankees)... i was skating infront of the net i got slough footed landed on the back of my skull... next thing i remember our trainer was there taking of my helmet... i am told i tried to get up several times infact when i was skating i was going to the corner when they got me up i was behind the net... i dont remember that... but obviously i wasnt out cold... concussions if serious enough will cause fuzzy memory... not necessarily being out cold

[Nick 1733]

Bertuzzi drove his head into the ice, you can see it on the footage. He didn't 'fall' on top of him, he forced him down and drove him face first into the ice. He had ahold of him with his right hand, he used his left arm to drove Moore into the ice.

[Roger Clemente]

Bertuzzi drove his head into the ice, you can see it on the footage. He didn't 'fall' on top of him, he forced him down and drove him face first into the ice. He had ahold of him with his right hand, he used his left arm to drove Moore into the ice.

How can you tell that that's what he did and what me and NeonMatrix said isn't what happened? How do you know the difference?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[Nick 1733]

Bertuzzi drove his head into the ice, you can see it on the footage. He didn't 'fall' on top of him, he forced him down and drove him face first into the ice. He had ahold of him with his right hand, he used his left arm to drove Moore into the ice.

How can you tell that that's what he did and what me and NeonMatrix said isn't what happened? How do you know the difference?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

Watch the footage, he forces Moore's head into the ice. You can tell from watching it.

[GMac]

and there was a second shooter in the grassy knoll

[Neon_Matrix]

Bertuzzi drove his head into the ice, you can see it on the footage. He didn't 'fall' on top of him, he forced him down and drove him face first into the ice. He had ahold of him with his right hand, he used his left arm to drove Moore into the ice.

How can you tell that that's what he did and what me and NeonMatrix said isn't what happened? How do you know the difference?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

Watch the footage, he forces Moore's head into the ice. You can tell from watching it.

Ok, Bertuzzi is skating behind Moore, only a little faster. Bert grabs onto Moore's jersey, pulls him back, and takes his right hand and smacks him on the right side of his head. This hit appears to make Moore go suddenly limp, this implying he no longer has control over his body...meaning this is the point in which he becomes unconcious. Moore's skates then appear to spread out, thus causing his upper body to continue traveling at the same speed it was before while his feet now drag behind, thus causing him to loose balance and collapse down front first, while Bertuzzi is still going at the same speed as before. It is too late for Bert to let go and skate off, he is forced into going down with the now limp Moore, who seems unable to put his arms out in any way to brace his fall. Infact, his right arm goes under his chest, while his left stays almost straight at his side. Bertuzzi happens to have his right hand on Moore's right shoulder, from when he smacked him, he has no time to move it, so instead keeps it where it is, and moves his left arm over in a way to help brace his imminant impact with the ice. Bertuzzi hits the ice with his left forarm on Moore's upper back, just on his shoulder blades. With his left arm still on Moore's upper back, he moves his right arm, either to help him get in a position to get back on his feet, when a Colorado player comes in on his right, and he moves his right arm over Moore's head while he lowers his own at the same time, to avoid being hit by the Colorado player. To me, thats what the video shows, and I'm sure RC sees pretty much the same thing. Take it or leave it, thats what I believe happened, even since I first saw it I noticed Moore was knocked out with the first hit, the rest just happened in a series of chain reactions. This is why I should be a goal judge, I see these things (and also saw a goal last season that the Leafs got but they didnt see it...grrrr....)

[Roger Clemente]

Bertuzzi drove his head into the ice, you can see it on the footage. He didn't 'fall' on top of him, he forced him down and drove him face first into the ice. He had ahold of him with his right hand, he used his left arm to drove Moore into the ice.

How can you tell that that's what he did and what me and NeonMatrix said isn't what happened? How do you know the difference?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

Watch the footage, he forces Moore's head into the ice. You can tell from watching it.

The second you said "DID" was the second I stopped believing you.

None of us have proof. You can not prove what you said is the truth. Neither can we prove what we said is the truth. However, our theories are just as believable as your's. We just aren't biased enough to say that what we say is the God's-honest truth.

Standing in a funhouse won't make your horse seem higher.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[-kj]

Are you guys seriously trying to make Bertuzzi out as innocent here? Because, Roger, that's what it sounds like. I can't imagine trying to condone what happened, and worse yet making it out to be someone else's fault other than Bertuzzi's, as if his hand were forced.

[Neon_Matrix]

Bertuzzi drove his head into the ice, you can see it on the footage. He didn't 'fall' on top of him, he forced him down and drove him face first into the ice. He had ahold of him with his right hand, he used his left arm to drove Moore into the ice.

How can you tell that that's what he did and what me and NeonMatrix said isn't what happened? How do you know the difference?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

Watch the footage, he forces Moore's head into the ice. You can tell from watching it.

The second you said "DID" was the second I stopped believing you.

None of us have proof. You can not prove what you said is the truth. Neither can we prove what we said is the truth. However, our theories are just as believable as your's. We just aren't biased enough to say that what we say is the God's-honest truth.

Standing in a funhouse won't make your horse seem higher.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

Only Bertuzzi and Moore (well...not really) know for sure what happened. We just go on what we can see with our eyes. We either believe Bertuzzi or we dont, simple as that. I believe it was an accident that Moore happened to get knocked out and flattened to the point his neck was broken. I'm going to believe what I stated earlier unless Bertuzzi happens to come out and go "yah, I jumped on him, broke his neck on puspose, and slammed his head into the ice a few times" then I'll believe any other interpretation.

[Neon_Matrix]

Are you guys seriously trying to make Bertuzzi out as innocent here? Because, Roger, that's what it sounds like. I can't imagine trying to condone what happened, and worse yet making it out to be someone else's fault other than Bertuzzi's, as if his hand were forced.

I'm not saying hes innocent, im just not saying he is a vile beast who jumped on poor Moore and purposly knocked him out cold and made sure he broke his neck in the process. He was wrong for what he did, and he served the time I believe was fair. 1 year without pro hockey in any country is a pretty big punishment, and the fact he has to carry this incedent with him for the rest of his career and life. Are you also going to claim Dany Heatley purposly drove his Ferarri into the wall to kill Dan Snyder?

[Roger Clemente]

Are you guys seriously trying to make Bertuzzi out as innocent here? Because, Roger, that's what it sounds like. I can't imagine trying to condone what happened, and worse yet making it out to be someone else's fault other than Bertuzzi's, as if his hand were forced.

I don't condone what Bertuzzi did. It was still a bad thing. But I'm not gonna place straight pure fact squarely on something that we can NOT prove for certain.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[-kj]

Fair enough, fellas. However, full intent or not, the results of Bertuzzi's actions have to be taken into account. Did he go in there meaning to hurt Moore to the extent of broken vertebrae? I don't believe so. Did he go in there hoping to hurt Moore in some way? I suppose I can't prove it, but his actions suggest to me that he did.

I suppose the fact that he couldn't play anywhere during the lockout was part of the punishment, but it seems like he's getting off relatively easy in NHL terms as compared to what punishment he was likely to face had there not been a lockout.

[GMac]

Fair enough, fellas. However, full intent or not, the results of Bertuzzi's actions have to be taken into account. Did he go in there meaning to hurt Moore to the extent of broken vertebrae? I don't believe so. Did he go in there hoping to hurt Moore in some way? I suppose I can't prove it, but his actions suggest to me that he did.

I suppose the fact that he couldn't play anywhere during the lockout was part of the punishment, but it seems like he's getting off relatively easy in NHL terms as compared to what punishment he was likely to face had there not been a lockout.

Once again kev i have to disagree... he didnt get paid either way... lock out or not... he couldnt even qaulify for the players emergency fund because of the suspension if i remember correctly... either way he went 17 months with out getting paid... and he couldnt play in europe... couldnt play in the world cup or championships... the punishment would have been fitting either way... the only difference is he wasnt on the sidelines watching the canucks play...

[Nick 1733]

Okay, yes it's true that there's no proof that he drove his head into the ice, however that's what it looks like to me. Everyone can say what they think they see by watching the footage.

The facts are that Bertuzzi seriously injured Moore, weither or not he jumped him or not, his neck was still broken.

I do think he's getting off easy in this case.

[HatCityEnforcer]

My $0.02:

I watched this game in question that night knowing without a doubt that something was gonna happen...especially after Brad May opened his yap and started spouting off about a bounty on Moore's head (personally, if anything, MAY is the one that got off lightly...kinda ironic that the guy I think that made what was a bad situation after the Moore hit on Nazzy worse ends up on the Avs this season)...

Yah, the Avs walked into GM Place and kicked the plop out of the Nucks that night...

But what people forget is that Moore was challenged early on by Matt Cooke.

To me, after Moore dropped 'em with Cooke, it should have ended right then and there...

Did Bertuzzi mess up? Yes.

Did he intend to put Moore into the hospital when he hit him? I'd have to think a resounding No on that one...unless he's actually everything Avs fans say he is and then some.

Was Bertuzzi punished enough? Hmmm...13 reg. season games, first round of the playoffs, no chance to play in Europe during the lockout, out of the WCs and World Cup as well (where he would have been a shoe-in on Team Canada)...plus add to it a criminal trial and probably a civil suit to boot (where I believe Moore will cash in and then some)...Yah, Bert's been punished enough in my book...

It was a bad situation, but come on...what's done is done...just boo the guy when he comes in to the Pepsi Center this fall and move along with your lives, Avs fans...besides, seeing how crappy the Avs farm system is and how Lacroix somehow thinks that guys like Pierre Turgeon and Stephane Brisebois are adequate replacements for the likes of Peter Forsberg and Adam Foote, the re-instatement of Todd Bertuzzi is the LAST thing folks at the Pepsi Center should be worrying about...

[WSU151]

He laid out a dirty hit on Naslund previously, and Krama came around to bite him in the ass...harder then it should have...

Please tell me how Moore's hit on Naslund was dirty. I want facts, rules, video, etc., because I've seen Moore's hit on Naslund and I completely disagree with you. Like Nick1733 said, even Naslund said it was a good hit. Please show us.

But what people forget is that Moore was challenged early on by Matt Cooke.

To me, after Moore dropped 'em with Cooke, it should have ended right then and there...

Well said.

[Andy]

My initial reaction to it was that Bertuzzi had no malicious intent with the hit, other than to start another fist fight with Moore. I don't think anyone ever intends to break anyone else's neck. It was a ridiculously dirty punch, and I'm glad he was suspended. But I think he's done his time and learned his lesson, because I'm sure he felt a lot of remorse for what he had done after he had calmed down. He already has to live with being one of the poster children for everything that was wrong with the NHL. I think the league got their message across that this type of goonery won't be accepted anymore.