Things i dislike about george w bush

[paynomind]

Things I like about Edwards and dont like about Bush:

Edwards is an excellent public speaker.

Edwards is an attractive, congenial person.

Edwards is a self-made man, a millionaire of his own hard work.

Edwards will not appoint judges who will outlaw abortion.

Edwards will not ask for a constitutional ammendment to ban gay unions.

Edwards will not ask for organized prayer in public schools.

Edwards will allow background checks at gun shows, to make sure the criminals aren't just getting around the rules.

Edwards opposed the Patriot act: the single most invasive governemnt activity sicne japanese interment camps.

Edwards wants to rollback millionaires such as himself from getting back huge chunks of tax refund money meant to help the working class.

Our current sitting president is the opposite of all of these things.

That makes it a very easy choice for me.

I think the Dems best bet against Bush is Edwards.

But i'd vote for a monkey rather than Bush.

[hockeyzealot]

Excellent images Habsfan!  Where did you get them?  I love seeing the old World War 2 propaganda posters "updated".  I made my own poster over a year ago when it became aparent that the Bush administration was going to have its war with Iraq no matter what.  It deals with some pretty charged images so rather than subject everyone to it here I'll just copy the url and leave it up to your discresion.

http://venus.walagata.com/w/hockeyzealot/bush-hitler.jpg

As for whats been said by NJTank:

I agree that abortion is a serious issue in this country which shouldnt be taken lightly.  I also agree that late term abortion should probably be reserved for those women whose lives would be in danger if they were to carry the fetus to term.  As the same time, I do not feel that the government has the authority to tell its citizens (women or men) what they can or cannot do with their bodies.  As much as people may object to it, the freedom of choice is a criticle component of freedom.  While others may not see it this way, I find the anti-abortion movement within this country to be cut from the same cloth as those who demand the complete covering of women's bodies in other parts of the world.  They are both male driven, religion fueld restrictions of female independance...this very discussion is a testament to that.

On the subject of religious extremism...I would like to turn to the issue of evolution.  Yes...it is theory...a well documented and widley held theory...but a theory none the less.  Coincidently, most science is theory...thats how science works.  Unlike other institutions it prefers not create undeniable truths.  This being said, if you were to dismiss all scientific theories and discuss only scientific "facts" (which by the way is a phalacy) you would be left with very little to discuss.  Chemistry, physics, biology, psychology...all of them draw heavily on theory.  Even gravity is a theoretical concept...we have lots of evidence to support it...but it is not a fact (and recent developements in physics have shown that perhaps our current theory of gravity may in fact be inaccurate).  The reason evolution has been singled out is because it conflicts with "the good book"...no other widley accepted scientific theory has ever recieved the same degree of scrutiny...and unlike some of these theories...there are hosts of tangible artifacts and remains that attest to this very process.  

My frustration here is that so many Americans (and others to varying degrees) are completely oblivious to the fact that there is only the thinest of lines sepperating "us" from "them".  We have already surrendered reason for religion and little by little we are surrendering our personal freedoms and ideas in the name of "homeland security".  How much longer before we dispose of all pretenses and wage our self-rightous war on the world? oops...too late

[habsfannova]

Go to ClickCafe.com, search "war posters", and it's under "1940's propaganda remixed"

[NJTank]

Habsfanova I suffer from high blood pressure and have a weeight problem I would nbever pass the physical.

But I do watch Fox News and have an SUV :cool:

All you leftist

Think we should understand the world its all grey. Its not all grey it black and white.

You always use the race card.

1. Its not 1964 any more.

2. Afimitive Action is racist against whites, no matter how you paint it.

3. Michael Jackson is not being prosecuted for being black.

4. Neither is Kobe

5. Neith was O.J.

6. In the last 10 years white peop[le have addopted black culture like no other. Look at all the white rappers, all the white kids listening to rap.

7. Black Althleetes are among the most highly regaurded. I have a Charles Barkley SUns jersy, if this was a racist country whites would never buy that.

8. In the last 25 years most of the buggest athleetes in terms of popularity and money from endorsements.

You need to get out of the past. Maybe its not perfect yet, but damn it we have coe along way in 40 years.

Im not saying discrimination is completly gone, but its not there like you left wingers belive.

Global Warming has not been proven, and there is no way that humans are sloely responsible. The sun controls the worlds climate, and research has found the earth has gone through periods of warming and colling since the beginning of time.

Yes I hate arab extremist. Im sorry if that makes me a bade person but they are all evil and should be allowed to meet Allah. Only I rather see them blown up by a US bomb rather then see them run another plane into a building.

Look at Isreal, the Jews are trying to make peace, but everytime they do boom another suicide bombing.

They are evil there is no grey they must be taken care of.

You can not talk to some one who wants you dead just for what you belive.

If they want Jihad then we should give it to them.

And I do question the government, thats why they can not be trusted with more tax dollars. Its time to trime programs and get rid of special interst studies. The government shoudl no longer fund test of how lightning effects bees or some crap like that.

BTW those posters look like something from the Soviet Union.

[NJTank]

Edwards is an excellent public speaker. How does that make him a good president.

Edwards is an excellent public speaker. Who cares how he looks are we holding a beauty contest or an election?

Edwards is a self-made man, a millionaire of his own hard work. Good for him that is to be admired.

Edwards will not appoint judges who will outlaw abortion. So will he appoint judges who legistlate from the bench who take this country further and further to the left with rullings like the one that out lawed One Nation Under God.

Edwards will not ask for a constitutional ammendment to ban gay unions. What gives them the right to be married? Marriage is defined in the dictinory as a unon betwen aman and a woman, if you start allowing those freaks to get married then you will morally bankrupt the nation.

Edwards will not ask for organized prayer in public schools. Ever since prayer was removed from school. There have been more violence in schools, more pregnancy, and higher drop outs rates. It is not a coincidence.

Edwards will allow background checks at gun shows, to make sure the criminals aren't just getting around the rules. This I am fine with, as long as they dont abridge the 2nd Amedmenant any further.

Edwards opposed the Patriot act: the single most invasive governemnt activity sicne japanese interment camps. Its the Patriot act that has prevented more terrosit acts after 9/11. If it is repelaed terroist will find it easier to attack us and we will be hit again with in months.

Edwards wants to rollback millionaires such as himself from getting back huge chunks of tax refund money meant to help the working class. Edwards will also raise taxes, which you will do by repealing tax cuts, on people who make more then $50,000. The middle class will be soaked, the rich know the loop holes, while those in the middle will have to get second jobs just to pay taxes.

[NJTank]

Excellent images Habsfan! Where did you get them? I love seeing the old World War 2 propaganda posters "updated". I made my own poster over a year ago when it became aparent that the Bush administration was going to have its war with Iraq no matter what. It deals with some pretty charged images so rather than subject everyone to it here I'll just copy the url and leave it up to your discresion.

http://venus.walagata.com/w/hockeyzealot/bush-hitler.jpg

As for whats been said by NJTank:

I agree that abortion is a serious issue in this country which shouldnt be taken lightly. I also agree that late term abortion should probably be reserved for those women whose lives would be in danger if they were to carry the fetus to term. As the same time, I do not feel that the government has the authority to tell its citizens (women or men) what they can or cannot do with their bodies. As much as people may object to it, the freedom of choice is a criticle component of freedom. While others may not see it this way, I find the anti-abortion movement within this country to be cut from the same cloth as those who demand the complete covering of women's bodies in other parts of the world.

On the subject of religious extremism...I would like to turn to the issue of evolution. Yes...it is theory...a well documented and widley held theory...but a theory none the less. Coincidently, most science is theory...thats how science works. Unlike other institutions it prefers not create undeniable truths. This being said, if you were to dismiss all scientific theories and discuss only scientific "facts" (which by the way is a phalacy) you would be left with very little to discuss. Chemistry, physics, biology, psychology...all of them draw heavily on theory. Even gravity is a theoretical concept...we have lots of evidence to support it...but it is not a fact (and recent developements in physics have shown that perhaps our current theory of gravity may in fact be inaccurate). The reason evolution has been singled out is because it conflicts with "the good book"...no other widley accepted scientific theory has ever recieved the same degree of scrutiny...and unlike some of these theories...there are hosts of tangible artifacts and remains that attest to this very process.

So let me get this straight.

Bush is Hitler

Bin Laden and Saddam Missunderstood.

Its things like this that make all you left wingers lose creditabillity.

Who is to speak for the baby after a certain ammount of time the baby has nerve ending and feels pain. If they dont want the baby fine, there is a little thing called adoption in this country. As for choice, maybe she should have taken birth control pills, or decided to have the abortion earlier. OI for one am not opposed to the morning after pill, or abortions in the first 3 months.

Teahc evolution fine, but dont teach it as proof religion is wrong, and in many cases taht is what thought. I dont belive human evolved from apes.

Sorry for 3 straight posts but I had to deal with all 3 of these posts sepratley.

[DEAD!]

3. Michael Jackson is not being prosecuted for being black.

Especially if he about as black as birch bark  

Now I can go on with all my views in detail in one post, but I don't have the time.

All I can say is, Kerry for President, Bush must have failed math but he's not Hitler, I believe in evolution, any Mars project is waste of money, humans are destryoing the environment and I hate SUVs

[habsfannova]

Haha, from the Soviet Union.  Back to McCarthy, eh? I'm a dirty commie for espousing my views.

The Patriot act infringes upon those very freedoms that you constantly carp about.  They can declare ANYONE a terrorist, and even look at what books they check out, bug their phones, totally invade their lives!  How would you feel if they followed your website, every time you were on?  Bugged your phone? THAT seems from the Soviet Union, if you ask me....

Kinda funny that your hero Limbaugh is using the ACLU too, eh?  

So, your not fighting, yet you are in favour of sending people to their deaths?  Funny.

[NJTank]

The ACLU has to support Limbaugh because he is being unfailry persecuted,if they didnt support him they would be shown to be hyporcrits.

I wont pass any physical. People who go to the Army are brave indeed, and love our country and they shoudl be appricated.

Well you are using the Hitler Card so I use the Communist card.

[hockeyzealot]

First off I would like say that I do not believe that I created the Bush Hitler image for two reasons:

1. To get a response

2. To make people aware of the historical parallels that exist

   within this administration and the danger of prolonged  

   complacency amongst the American people.

Its for reason number two that I keep comming back here knowing full well that neither side is going to become convinced that the other opinion is more vaild than their own.

As for the other comments.  First off, I do not support nor feel it necissary to make excuses for either Osama Bin Laden or Sadam Husein.  They are both terrible people who have done terrible things to humanity.  However I feel it is important to look at why the people who support them continue to do so.  While Bin Laden was the major source of funding and organization for September 11th...he did not execute it himself...countless others were involved in that process...people who thought what they were doing was the right and sensible thing to do.  If we can gain a genuine understanding of what brought them to this conclusion we may be able to prevent it from occuring again.  Bin Laden is dangerous because he has so many people will to die for him...without them he is only one man...and like all tyrants he has shown that he isn't willing to die for "his" cause.

Lastly I'd like to utilize your own words to illustrate my argument on the hypocracy of Americans in regards to religous extremeism.

Yes I hate arab extremist. Im sorry if that makes me a bade person but they are all evil and should be allowed to meet Allah. Only I rather see them blown up by a US bomb rather then see them run another plane into a building.

OK...so Islamic extremists are bad and must die.

They are evil there is no grey they must be taken care of.

They are evil...and like all evil things must be killed.

Now pay attention...because here comes the irony:

You can not talk to some one who wants you dead just for what you belive.

So just to review...the people that you single out are those who believe in Islam...and you certainly make no quams that they should die...so why should Islamic extremists bother to talk with someone who want them to die?  And don't give me a "they started it" excuse...read up on your middle eastern history and you will find that western "civilization" has been less than civil to the people of the middle east.  The actions of Islamic extremists are not without provocation...just because we as a country cannot remember the past (or refuse to) doesn't mean that other parts of the world don't.

Its a cliche...but with great power does in fact come great responsability, and as the world's last remaining super power there is an increadible amount of responsability that we as a people must take to the wellfare of the world.  However I have little hope of this occuring when we as a people seem so determind to deni assistance to the people in our own country.

 

 Take taxes for example.  You insist upon having these tax cuts on the grounds that it would hurt america...but what about the 27.5% of American workers at or below the poverty line?  The tax cuts are bleeding these individuals dry.  People living in poverty are increadibly dependant upon government programs...subsidized housing, school lunch programs, free clinics and state education.  These individuals...the majority of them minorities...are fighting for their lives...but that is of no consequence to you of course...you have your three hundred dollars and you are happy.  

Meanwhile a single black mother out there is working three jobs just to make ends meet while her children are left with strangers in a decaying violent drug infested project.  The money that was given away by the tax cuts could have helped keep a community center open, or provided the mother with enough financial flexability to take some night courses and get a better paying job.  Taxes have a purpose...whether you choose to accept that or not...and one of the most important is assisting the less fortunate so that they too can take part in what has been called "the American Dream".

Coincidently the majority of individuals living in poverty also happen to be minorities (31.2% African Americans and 40.4% of Hispanics) which means the tax cuts have an even greater impact upon their communities.  While the tax cuts were not directly racist they had wide spread racial repercussions...which cannot be denied.  It is this same institutional racism that is responsable for the dreadfull condition of innercity schools and hospitals (which both primarily serve a minority community).  Not only do minorities face dreadfull living and employment conditions, they are deprived of the means necissary to progress beyond them.  What results is a much more sinister kind of racism which is institutional in nature.  The very fact that the majority of Americans are content to ignore this speaks to the danger it poses.

As for the example of pro-athaletes and performers as examples as to the demise of racism...alow me to point out that these individuals represent a fraction of the total minority population.  Also, while these individuals are respected and are stunning examples of their fields...they are not a viable measurement for a race's equality.  Minorities have always found themselves more easily accepted into the realms of sports and entertainment before other aspects of society...just look at all the Italian-American baseball players, Irish-American boxers and Jewish comedians who were a major part of American sports and entertainment long before they were doctors, lawyers and CEOs.  That I believe is the real test...how many African American CEOs are there in this country...how many Hispanic lawyers?  

Anyway...I'm taking this opertunity to bow out...I've got a thesis to write and school work that needs to be done.  Its obvious that neither of us is going to agree on this issue so its really nothing more than a protracted pissing contest and a fight for the last word.  So let me just say that I hope your precious tax cut brings you happyness...because it sure as hell wont bring anything to those who could have used it.

[NJTank]

This thread really needs to be closed and locked off beofre any one satrts and says something that will cause this to go nuclear because this bulls*** that zealot came up with is a joke.

They want to see the US turned into f***ing France.

And you want to talk real racism on Firday I was rejected for Car Insurance for being white!!!

I have had trouble finding jobs in NJ because I am white.

Come here come to Newark you want5 to see this msirtreated race its white people yous socilalist jerk.

[habsfannova]

Sorry we hurt your feelings.

[NJTank]

You really dont understand what I went through yesterday. Its bad there is racism on all sides none of it is good, but as for thsi thread I just thinks its time its stopped.

IM a conservative who, and I wont deny Im on the fring in some of my views. I am a Right Winger Im not a nut like Timmoth McVeigh, although I have an uncle on my mother's side thats part of a gun club if you catch my drift. Dont worry I only met him once.

And you area liberal or a Socialiost either way you are a left winger. We will never agree on politics and just continuing this will just make us enemies so I thinks its best we jsut say we said our peace and end this debate now, it will flair up again but for now just end it.

[habsfannova]

I don't make enemies out of people because of their beliefs, but I'll stop posting about it if it makes you feel better.

[JQK]

Racisim is more against white people now than any other group, but since it's against white people, no one cares, especially the liberals.

[NJTank]

I dont care what you belive you are intitled to what you belive but if you post it I will disagree with it.

However, I think this deabte has gone on long enough for now.

[jrh31584]

Some random thoughts:

1. Affirmative action violates the 14th amendment and should be ended ASAP.

2. The 2nd amendment was passed so that in the event that the government became tyrannical, we could overthrow it.  Ironically, those who feel that the government is becoming tyrannical are also likely to be anti-gun.

3. Government programs are far less effective than private or religious organizations in helping the indigent.

4. The war on drugs is ineffective, sends the Constitution through the shredder, and much as Prohibition led to the rise of the mob, the war on drugs has led to gang warfare.

5. Teachers only need to be accountable to parents in regards to what they teach inside the classroom.

6. Let students pray in class if they want to, but don't force it on anyone.

That's all for now.

[NJTank]

Some random thoughts:

1. Affirmative action violates the 14th amendment and should be ended ASAP.

2. The 2nd amendment was passed so that in the event that the government became tyrannical, we could overthrow it. Ironically, those who feel that the government is becoming tyrannical are also likely to be anti-gun.

3. Government programs are far less effective than private or religious organizations in helping the indigent.

4. The war on drugs is ineffective, sends the Constitution through the shredder, and much as Prohibition led to the rise of the mob, the war on drugs has led to gang warfare.

5. Teachers only need to be accountable to parents in regards to what they teach inside the classroom.

6. Let students pray in class if they want to, but don't force it on anyone.

That's all for now.

I agree with most of these

As for Number 6

I think durring moringing exercises, pledge of algence and all the other stuff taht ahoppens and the start of the school day teachers should call for a 1 minute moment of silence where students can pray if they want or just sit and think about who won the Super Bowl.

I also think schools should offer clubs that address religous stdnets. In public schools these are banned, but if a group of students wnat them they shopuld be availble.

[Saintsfan]

Wow I knew I would be opening a can of worms with this thread!! But its typical of this board, people are having an honest and frank exchange of views!!

I wanted to make some comments on the race issue since it has been raised.

The starting point for my beliefs on race matters in the US, and for that matter the UK, is that we enslaved these people, without any choice. As far as affirmative action is concerned, it takes more than 30 years of giving black people a more than fair chance to wipe away the problems they faced for 500 years. (slavery, segregation etc,) So whether or not it is legal I am fine with it.

It is a fact that it is more difficult or a black guy to get justice in the USA. Something like 80% of those put to death in the US are black, when I think it is something like 30% of murders are commited by black people (I may have those figures slightly wrong!) Black people are much less likely to avoid the death penalty due to things like mental health. I could go on. Is Kobe being tried becauise he is black- no. Race doesn't color every issue involving black people and it is wrong to think it does. But it is an issue, the US is still a MUCH harder place for black people to live than white people. As is the UK.

Incidentally, I watched a great thing on politics and young peoples views on politics, etc etc called Last Party 2000, Very interesting, won't be everyones cup of tea, but I enjoyed it.

[NJTank]

See I hate when people bring up Afirmative Action as a way of trying to erase the injustice of salvery, people are trying now to use the same logic for slave reperations.

It punnished white people who were not responsible for slavery. What about those whose ancestors imigrated after teh Civil War why should they have to pay the price?

Its simply not right its transfering injustice from one group to another.

Its time that all lawas regarding race are ended and everyone is just treat as a person. This includes the removal of the race question on all apllications.