Wow, the Lerners Really Hate the Nats' DC Logo

[Jaybird]

If the Nationals keep the "curly W" logo, then I would like to see them have alternate caps described as follows:

1. White with red W and blue bill

2. White with blue W and red bill

3. 1964 Senators caps, being navy blue with a red W trimmed in white with red stripes on the seams of the caps

4. 1967 Senators caps, being white. I can't recall if the letter W and stripes were red or blue.

I wanted to check the "Dressed to the Nines" website but it said: "Error: Page Not Found".

[Don]

This is probably a topic for the Sports in General forum, but what did you guys think of the new park? I'm always curious for first-person reviews...

I'd give the stadium a B

Here's why:

Positives:

Within walking distance from the Navy Yard Metro Stop (this is a double edge sword);

The field looks amazing;

The press box is existing and not as dominant as one would think.

A variety of food and alcoholic beverages.

The huge scoreboard;

Unique view of the Capitol Building and Washington Monument;

The Red Porch for the sportsbar.

Negatives:

If you're a diehard fan, be prepared to shell out a lot for merchandise, best option is to look elsewhere for stuff.

The upper concourse is too open. Limited locations to escape the rain if/when there is a rain delay. Did they not think it would rain during the summer?

Limited selection of food and alcohol on the upper concourse. Gotta trek to the main concourse to get good food.

Local food chains, Five Guys, Red, Hot N Blue, Hard Times Cafe, Ben's Chili Bowl, etc. ONLY have ONE location throughout the stadium. Had a hot dog and chili nachos both were subpar and cold. Maybe they can place a few on the upper concourse?

Too much concrete! The facade of the front rows throughout the stadium is bland and boring. They attempted to cover it up a bit but still doesn't work. Definitely need to finish up the paint jobs throughout the stadium.

The wires that hold the backstop in place are connected rather weirdly way down the 1st and 3rd baselines.

The mass of people waiting to get on the Metro at the Navy Yard once the game is over. If you're feeling adventurous, you can walk to the South Capitol Stop (if taking the Orange or Blue line) to get home.

Well just take my opinion with a grain of salt. Although a lot of people bash RFK Stadium, I enjoyed a game there albeit less revenue and only true fans went. At Nats Park, this is an instant cashcow something that this franchise desperately needs for the long-run. It couldn't have been developed more with the 1st game last night on ESPN and with Zimmerman winning for us with that walkoff.

But be ready to drop at least $150 or so, depending on how many people you go with.

i agree about that, not to mention once i got into the metro stop, it took me 15 mins to get a train going to the Branch Avenue station. at least 5 trains going towards Greenbelt, L'Enfant Plaza etc went by before i got my one and went home.

[JStamper]

Well just take my opinion with a grain of salt. Although a lot of people bash RFK Stadium, I enjoyed a game there albeit less revenue and only true fans went. At Nats Park, this is an instant cashcow something that this franchise desperately needs for the long-run. It couldn't have been developed more with the 1st game last night on ESPN and with Zimmerman winning for us with that walkoff.

But be ready to drop at least $150 or so, depending on how many people you go with.

$150???? That is a drop in the bucket at Fenway. 2 decent seats for the Sox and you've already dropped $150, and that's before you drop another $150 for parking, food, and a couple of beers

[BrySmalls]

Well I'm used to sitting in outfield seats at RFK and not paying more than $9 per ticket. Also, the Nationals haven't been around for a long time, don't have a tremendous and obsessive fan base, or have won any world series (or anything for that matter). Being a graduate school student, $150 is quite a bit of dough!

[griffelh]

I have no problem with the curly W. My problem is with Todd Radom for designing uniforms that do not go with the curly W. He was given one rule by MLB and that was that they were using the cap with the curly W. Despite knowing that, he chose to design uniforms that do not complement the cap.

I am hoping that the Lerners change the uniform for next season so something with a cursive script so that everything goes together.

[Gothamite]

its really simple to explain, i saw at least 75% red curly W hats being worn at the game (myself included). the DC fans flock to the red curly W, its the most popular look

I'm not sure that from the first you can necessarily draw an inference as to the second and the third.

It should not surprise us that the caps most commonly available are the ones most commonly worn.

You may be right. You may be wrong. We simply don't know with any authority, unless there has been a survey comparing the two logos.

[Gothamite]

I have no problem with the curly W. My problem is with Todd Radom for designing uniforms that do not go with the curly W. He was given one rule by MLB and that was that they were using the cap with the curly W. Despite knowing that, he chose to design uniforms that do not complement the cap.

I am hoping that the Lerners change the uniform for next season so something with a cursive script so that everything goes together.

Bingo. That's the problem in a nutshell.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

$150???? That is a drop in the bucket at Fenway. 2 decent seats for the Sox and you've already dropped $150, and that's before you drop another $150 for parking, food, and a couple of beers

Wow. What is "decent"? I'm curious. I won't spend more than $10 for a major league baseball ticket, and luckily, my experience at Great American Ballpark and Safeco Field has shown that I don't have to. I went to several M's games last year and spent about $20-30 each time, ticket included.

Considering there are 81 home games per year, I have a very hard time spending NFL-type money for MLB games. But if they can get it, more power to them, I guess.

[NatsFan2004]

Appreciate the corrections, tpoh59. Thought I've seen pics of the seat ends.

Oh, and another bit of decorative detailing: The trash bins on the main concourse are green metal with a curly W cut out of them to show bright red plastic behind. But of course the inside of the W's loop has to connect to the rest of the can, so it's done stencil-style, so that it has the appearance that the right loop of the letter crosses over on top of the left loop of the letter. Sort of like the breaks in San Diego's current SD logo. This actually manages to make the curly-W look pretty good.

I'd love to see that. Next time you go, can you take a camera?

Took a photo on Saturday, just after the gates opened:

[vagabond]

I have no problem with the curly W. My problem is with Todd Radom for designing uniforms that do not go with the curly W. He was given one rule by MLB and that was that they were using the cap with the curly W. Despite knowing that, he chose to design uniforms that do not complement the cap.

I am hoping that the Lerners change the uniform for next season so something with a cursive script so that everything goes together.

I would love to see the uniforms changed to match curly W on the hats. The current uniform lettering just doesn't look like it belongs on a baseball team. Might work on a fast food franchise's uniforms, or for a chain of lube racks, but it looks awkward and out of place on a baseball diamond. A cursive script that matches the hats would be sweet.

[Krona]

I have no problem with the curly W. My problem is with Todd Radom for designing uniforms that do not go with the curly W. He was given one rule by MLB and that was that they were using the cap with the curly W. Despite knowing that, he chose to design uniforms that do not complement the cap.

I am hoping that the Lerners change the uniform for next season so something with a cursive script so that everything goes together.

I dont know why everything seems fly his way. I havent been terribly impressed with a lot. some is incredibl, but when he misses, he misses.

[BallWonk]

I have no problem with the curly W. My problem is with Todd Radom for designing uniforms that do not go with the curly W. He was given one rule by MLB and that was that they were using the cap with the curly W. Despite knowing that, he chose to design uniforms that do not complement the cap.

I am hoping that the Lerners change the uniform for next season so something with a cursive script so that everything goes together.

First off, your problem with Radom's work here is the exact opposite of mine. Radom updated the curly W itself -- and it is an improvement over the curly W from the 1960s -- but he did really sloppy work with it. I mean simply below-amateurish draftsmanship in which the lines of the curves do not match one another where the loops cross. Four-fifths of the people on these boards would have done a more basically competent job designing the new curly W.

And as much as I understand people not liking how the curly W clashes with the uniform lettering -- which is why everyone here hates the Dodgers uniforms too, since the Dodgers also married a previous team's cap logo with a non-matching uniform script -- unless the Nats designed an absolutely unique and breathtaking cursive script, switching to a cursive script would be a disaster. The Nationals current scripts just look like Washington. Both in general look-and-feel and also literally, in that the lettering gives the impression of columns and arches, as in the monuments and the Potomac bridges. The letterforms themselves look like they were lifted straight from the many Depression and WWII era federal buildings.

A new cursive Nats script would almost certainly lose most of that distinctive local character. Plus, the Orioles already have a strong cursive-script identity, and the Phillies already have jersey lettering in the style of the curly W. (The Phillies cap logo is a close relative of the curly W, with its giant-dot starting point and swooshy brush-lifting terminus.)

I think Gotham's solution is close to ideal. If the numbers in some way worked with the curly W, they would tie the uniform together. In practice, that probably means dropping the gold (a good idea anyway to make the jersey script stand out even more) and moving to a slightly scripty, not block, lettering style.

[Gothamite]

And as much as I understand people not liking how the curly W clashes with the uniform lettering -- which is why everyone here hates the Dodgers uniforms too, since the Dodgers also married a previous team's cap logo with a non-matching uniform script --

The Dodgers can get away with it because they use block numbers. They don't have numbers matching the wordmark mismatching the cap logo.

I'm worried about scripty letters - that might compound the problem, mixing two very strong uniform elements. Sounds to me like they would clash for focus on the jersey. What the Nats really need is a neutral number set, which removes the pressure for every single element to share the same design.

One simple change that few casual fans would probably even notice, but would pull the entire thing together and make it really work. So close, but so far.

[BallWonk]

And as much as I understand people not liking how the curly W clashes with the uniform lettering -- which is why everyone here hates the Dodgers uniforms too, since the Dodgers also married a previous team's cap logo with a non-matching uniform script --

The Dodgers can get away with it because they use block numbers. They don't have numbers matching the wordmark mismatching the cap logo.

I'm worried about scripty letters - that might compound the problem, mixing two very strong uniform elements. Sounds to me like they would clash for focus on the jersey. What the Nats really need is a neutral number set, which removes the pressure for every single element to share the same design.

One simple change that few casual fans would probably even notice, but would pull the entire thing together and make it really work. So close, but so far.

You proceed from the false premise that block numbers are "neutral". They are not. The reason block numbers work for the Dodgers, aside from the everyone-is-used-to-it factor, is that the LA cap logo itself resembles the shapes of block numbers. The Dodgers have numbers matching the cap logo above and below the clashing jersey script.

Personally, when I've tried mocking up various tweaks to the Nats uniforms, dropping the gold bevels on the numbers and dialing back to a plainer block font has made the uniforms worse. Better to have an aesthetically clashing cap logo than to have the cap logo, jersey script, and jersey numbering all clash.

[budbowl77]

I want Washington to move to the American League...

[Gothamite]

You proceed from the false premise that block numbers are "neutral". They are not. The reason block numbers work for the Dodgers, aside from the everyone-is-used-to-it factor, is that the LA cap logo itself resembles the shapes of block numbers. The Dodgers have numbers matching the cap logo above and below the clashing jersey script.

We'll have to agree to disagree on block numbers being neutral.

Let's look at another team, with a cap logo farther removed from block letters. The Yankees. They have three different fonts on both their home and road uniforms. One for the cap logo, one for the chest logo (home) or city name (road) and the block numbers. If two of those three were in perfect alignment (especially being of a very distinct font such as that of the Nats), then the whole thing would fall apart. As it is, the various styles compliment each other very well.

The Tigers are another example. Look at their road uniforms - if they wore blackletter numbers to match the cap, then the chest script would look misplaced. If they wore italicized numbers to match the script, then the cap logo is awkward. But the balance just works.

Personally, when I've tried mocking up various tweaks to the Nats uniforms, dropping the gold bevels on the numbers and dialing back to a plainer block font has made the uniforms worse. Better to have an aesthetically clashing cap logo than to have the cap logo, jersey script, and jersey numbering all clash.

Interesting - I'd love to see those concepts.

[Gothamite]

Did a quick one myself:

See, I think that's a huge improvement.

You could say that it looks too much like the Cardinals, but that's a product of the "red at home, navy on the road" scheme. Plus it's a compliment.

[STL FANATIC]

This isn't like the Tigers, who have three different fonts on their home and road uniforms. Or the Yankees, with their four different "NY" logos. That kind of mismatch is charming.

Agree to disagree.

It's oldness and tradition has become charm. It in and of itself is just lame and lazy design.

That said, you nailed why the Nats looks a little weird.

The other reason is that in most cases of mismatching caps, it's a blocky, simple letterform on the hat with a script on the jersey. In this case, it's a script letter on a hat with a blocky (though maybe not simple) typeface on the jerseys.

[Gothamite]

It's oldness and tradition has become charm. It in and of itself is just lame and lazy design.

Like the Cardinals' two different versions of their "StL" logo?

[STL FANATIC]

It's oldness and tradition has become charm. It in and of itself is just lame and lazy design.

Like the Cardinals' two different versions of their "StL" logo?

And that bothers me...

That's a little more quirky and a little bit less bad design though since they only have one official STL and just for some reason have all hats made with a slightly altered T.

Nonetheless, it bothers me and I'd prefer everything switch to the hat logo.

I don't think your re-design looks too much like the Cards for the same reason they avoid looking like the Cards now. The Cardinals only switch their hat and their belt to navy on the road. Everything else stays red.

I guess the home jerseys look a little more like the Cards than they currently do, but it's not that big of a deal.