Wow, the Lerners Really Hate the Nats' DC Logo

[RickV]

I have no problem with the curly W. My problem is with Todd Radom for designing uniforms that do not go with the curly W. He was given one rule by MLB and that was that they were using the cap with the curly W. Despite knowing that, he chose to design uniforms that do not complement the cap.

I am hoping that the Lerners change the uniform for next season so something with a cursive script so that everything goes together.

Simple, rename the team "Senators" and go with the old cursive wordmark.

[mania]

Tom Hicks owns the Senators rights.... would cost less to just make a Nationals set similar.

[Gothamite]

I'm sure My Hicks could be prevailed upon.

Especially since the Twins were so gracious as to give them to his forebearers.

But I know some DC people are very reluctant, since DC doesn't actually have any Senators, and wants them. But I say it's an excellent way to keep the issue on the tip of the public's tongue.

Or heck. Just make the more interesting choice and call them the Grays. MLB floated it as the third possibility at the time, and I'm still bummed that they didn't have the stones.

[RickV]

I'm sure My Hicks could be prevailed upon.

Especially since the Twins were so gracious as to give them to his forebearers.

But I know some DC people are very reluctant, since DC doesn't actually have any Senators, and wants them. But I say it's an excellent way to keep the issue on the tip of the public's tongue.

Or heck. Just make the more interesting choice and call them the Grays. MLB floated it as the third possibility at the time, and I'm still bummed that they didn't have the stones.

I've never really understood that argument (from DC citizens, not you). There are no pirates in Pittsburgh, no cubs in Chicago, blah, blah, blah.

[gueman]

This is probably a topic for the Sports in General forum, but what did you guys think of the new park? I'm always curious for first-person reviews...

Local food chains, Five Guys, Red, Hot N Blue, Hard Times Cafe, Ben's Chili Bowl, etc. ONLY have ONE location throughout the stadium. Had a hot dog and chili nachos both were subpar and cold. Maybe they can place a few on the upper concourse?

WHAT No Ledo's Pizza, or Jerrys??? Efit I ain't goin now. On Second thought they do have a Five Guys...and Five Guys trumps all!

[BallWonk]

I'm sure My Hicks could be prevailed upon.

Especially since the Twins were so gracious as to give them to his forebearers.

But I know some DC people are very reluctant, since DC doesn't actually have any Senators, and wants them. But I say it's an excellent way to keep the issue on the tip of the public's tongue.

Or heck. Just make the more interesting choice and call them the Grays. MLB floated it as the third possibility at the time, and I'm still bummed that they didn't have the stones.

I've never really understood that argument (from DC citizens, not you). There are no pirates in Pittsburgh, no cubs in Chicago, blah, blah, blah.

But nobody is hurt by there being no pirates in Pittsburgh or cubs in Chicago. The lack of political representation is a different thing. Even if you happen to think that it's a good idea that we are the only democratic country in the world that disenfranchises the residents of its capital city, surely you can understand how said disenfranchised residents might have strong feelings on the matter. Our forefathers, after all, fought an eight-year war against the mightiest empire in the world over the issue of taxation without representation, so opposing a sports team name over the issue of taxation without representation is a pretty mild response by comparison.

I had other preferences for the team name myself; Nationals was my third choice. But the name is not going anywhere now. And I'm kind of grateful, actually, since that Senators script is really a pretty crappy script. Blah letter shapes, an ugly S, and badly drawn connectors. Glad we dodged the bullet of resurrecting that script.

[Gothamite]

Even if you happen to think that it's a good idea that we are the only democratic country in the world that disenfranchises the residents of its capital city, surely you can understand how said disenfranchised residents might have strong feelings on the matter.

I do understand that.

That's why I don't understand why those residents would oppose an opportunity to keep the problem in the news for an entire summer at a time (and who knows? Maybe even the Fall as well).

Everybody loves irony. It could have been a really wonderful opportunity to educate it.

[STL FANATIC]

I happen to think, while a little dull, Nationals was the right choice. It's a fitting name, and I think it rolls off the tongue nicely.

Grays is intriguing, but it doesn't sound particularly great and doesn't lend itself to great design (not that any of the options do). It does offer a great opportunity to honor and educate, so I put it just behind Nationals on my list.

[TruColor]

You know, Todd Radom DOES lurk here from time-to-time, and I remember at one point he did explain to me the development process for the Nationals' logo and uniform package, but I don't think it was as cut-and-dried as "take the 'W' and add whatever you want to it". I don't want to speak for Todd, but I think it was a lot more complicated than that.

I think it's easy for some of us "armchair" designers to criticize the end result without knowing the big picture. That's all I have to say.

[STL FANATIC]

You know, Todd Radom DOES lurk here from time-to-time, and I remember at one point he did explain to me the development process for the Nationals' logo and uniform package, but I don't think it was as cut-and-dried as "take the 'W' and add whatever you want to it". I don't want to speak for Todd, but I think it was a lot more complicated than that.

I think it's easy for some of us "armchair" designers to criticize the end result without knowing the big picture. That's all I have to say.

Agreed. I don't know what he had to go with, but rarely is it that cut and dry, and from my small experience designing and greater experience listening to other designers, rarely is the final work exactly what the designer wanted to go with. The client generally butts in (granted they have every right to) and sets a less than desirable parameter.

That said, I think Todd did a great a job. Now that I've seen the suggestion and a mockup, I do think plain block numbers to tie the hat in would be appropriate, but when unvieled, I thought it was wonderful how everything was tied together and simply blamed MLB and traditionalists for forcing the use of the W without modifications.

[Gothamite]

Plus, how cool would it have been to name a big league club after a Negro League one?

We have, what, nearly a fifth of the clubs named after minor-league teams - the Angels and Padres of the PCL, Orioles and Marlins of the IL and the Brewers of the American Association (and that's not counting those teams like the Red Sox, named after 19th Century ballclubs). Would have been nice to honor a whole other part of the sport's history.

[Gothamite]

You know, Todd Radom DOES lurk here from time-to-time, and I remember at one point he did explain to me the development process for the Nationals' logo and uniform package, but I don't think it was as cut-and-dried as "take the 'W' and add whatever you want to it". I don't want to speak for Todd, but I think it was a lot more complicated than that.

I think it's easy for some of us "armchair" designers to criticize the end result without knowing the big picture. That's all I have to say.

Oh, of course. But such is the nature of all criticism - it cares not for the process, only the result.

Making a movie is an impossible process. To have dozens of actors and hundreds of technicians working in a chaotic environment over a series of months, creating the illusion of progressive, continuous and consistent linear time within the context of the narrative requires so much patience, so much work and so much luck that we ought to consider ourselves fortunate that it gets done at all.

Still, when a movie blows, it blows.

[tubby34]

Honestly, I think the DC logo was supposed to be used as the primary logo and he relegated it to the seconday when Washington was picked as the team's city over DC.

Think- DC Nationals or Washington Nationals. I like the DC caps with the Nationals jerseys. It looks like they belong together.

Chris

[Gothamite]

Was there ever any thought that the team would be called "DC ________"?

[SteveR]

Limited selection of food and alcohol on the upper concourse. Gotta trek to the main concourse to get good food.

Local food chains, Five Guys, Red, Hot N Blue, Hard Times Cafe, Ben's Chili Bowl, etc. ONLY have ONE location throughout the stadium. Had a hot dog and chili nachos both were subpar and cold. Maybe they can place a few on the upper concourse?

One redeeming decision is that the signature item of the Ben's menu -- the "all the way" half smoke (with chili, onions and mustard) -- is available at every Nats Dogs hot dog stand, and there's one of those in every concession cluster.

Just make sure you know your neighbor REAL WELL if you plan to down two or more of these gastrointestinal time bombs.

[DEAD!]

Was there ever any thought that the team would be called "DC ________"?

.. the DC Comics?

[Arts11]

Being an employee for this wonderful company , I still hate that the logo looks so much like this:

LOL. I never noticed that, there are only CVS's around here. But yeah, I don't really care much for the DC logo one way or another, feels a bit too stale. The W just feels more old-timey anyway.

[BallWonk]

Was there ever any thought that the team would be called "DC ________"?

I'm reasonably sure not, though perhaps someday Mr. Radom or someone who speaks to him could tell the tale and correct me if I'm wrong. The impression I got in a couple of conversations involving the commissioner's office -- and this is reading between the lines of a series of longwinded "no comment" responses -- was that Selig basically wanted to bring the '71 Washington Senators back to life, and when it was clear that the city government would not stand for the Senators name, the only thing up for consideration on MLB's side was the team name, not the city name.

Ironic, perhaps, since there is no city of Washington here. The city itself is the District of Columbia; there is no legal entity called Washington. It's essentially a postal fiction, a customary practice, rather than an actual entity.

Also, regarding the Senators name as an awareness builder, I think DC residents can be pretty safe in assuming no such thing would have happened. Seventy years of having a team called the Washington Senators didn't do anything to raise public interest in enfranchising District residents. If you do something for 70 years and it never produces a given result, I'm not sure how it's possible to argue that the way to produce that result is to give the thing that failed for 70 years another try. Of course, this being Washington, believing that something that has already been proven not to work will work next time is pretty much par for the course.

And speaking of Mr. Radom, while I fault him for the poor execution of two critical aspects of the W itself, I absolutely love the rest of his work on the Nationals identity. More than almost any other team in baseball, majors or minors, the Nationals have a visual identity that reflects the aesthetic identity of their city. The Nationals and Washington scripts are just absolute perfection for the federal city. Even the numbers, of which I'm not a huge fan, have a weight to them that feels almost militaristic, like numbers on a battleship instead of a baseball uniform, which is now doubly appropriate since the old Navy Yard has a retired destroyer (U.S.S. Barry) moored just beyond the right field wall.

That's why, ultimately, I am not persuaded by arguments for "fixing" the Nats uniforms. The current uniforms look like Washington. Gotham's change to the numbers may or may not better integrate the cap with the jersey, but the change would come at the cost of making the uniforms less natural fits with the aesthetics of the city.

[Burning River]

Similar to the Twins using the "TC", I like that Washington also has a "DC". I would prefer to see it used more as well. I like the fact that the Twins use the "M" for "Minnesota" on one cap and "TC" for "Twin Cities" on the other. Now, design-wise... the "M" does match the "Twins" current font, the "TC" is unrelated to the current font. It still works, though. The "TC" never did match the old "Twins" script from years ago If I recall correctly.

I think the easiest solution for the Nationals is to have the home uniform using the "DC" hat. Redesign the road jersey to use the scrpit "W" and read "Washington" in a matching script font. Or... would it be better to have the "W" hat match the current "Nationals" font. Then you could design a custon "DC" cursive logo hat as the other to go with a more generic "Nationals" or "Washington" cursive word mark? I do like the scrpit "W" as an alternate. When placed on the current uniform set.. it seems a bit forced.

[Gothamite]

That's why, ultimately, I am not persuaded by arguments for "fixing" the Nats uniforms. The current uniforms look like Washington. Gotham's change to the numbers may or may not better integrate the cap with the jersey, but the change would come at the cost of making the uniforms less natural fits with the aesthetics of the city.

Unfortunately, something has to change. Either the cap logos or the numbers. And I don't see them abandoning the W, since they went to such lengths to keep it (and, as noted, to promote it around the park).