Sports cities needing teams

[CC97]

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

Attendance Figures

National Basketball Association: 21,841,480 over 1,230 games= 17,757 average attendance

National Hockey League: 21,236,255 over 1,230 games= 17,265 average attendance

Major League Soccer: 3,270,210 over 195 games= 16,770 average attendance

Just sayin'.

Of course the NHL and NBA play at smaller capacity arenas with a maximum capacity of about 22,000 for Basketball and about 20,000-21,000. Even with soccer specific stadiums the capacity for MLS is higher. Not to mention that tickets are much cheaper for MLS.

What does percentage of capacity have to do with it if none of the three leagues are selling out every game?

That's like saying one league is more successful than another because there are fewer seats available for it... an available seat in any situation means not every ticket was sold, when this is the case (as it usually is) you can just take the raw attendance number and compare it that way.

Spin it however you want, but the MLS is averaging nearly 17,000 fans per game -- that sounds "major league" to me.

[infrared41]

No. In fact, if you look at its attendance, revenue, television coverage, and general awareness of the league, it is nowhere near the other four. It doesn't even come close to the NHL, which is lagging behind the other three. So, no, it is not suddenly a major league. If you walked up to the VAST majority of the people in this country, they would tell you it isn't.

Attendance Figures

National Basketball Association: 21,841,480 over 1,230 games= 17,757 average attendance

National Hockey League: 21,236,255 over 1,230 games= 17,265 average attendance

Major League Soccer: 3,270,210 over 195 games= 16,770 average attendance

Just sayin'.

Of course the NHL and NBA play at smaller capacity arenas with a maximum capacity of about 22,000 for Basketball and about 20,000-21,000. Even with soccer specific stadiums the capacity for MLS is higher. Not to mention that tickets are much cheaper for MLS.

What does percentage of capacity have to do with it if none of the three leagues are selling out every game?

That's like saying one league is more successful than another because there are fewer seats available for it... an available seat in any situation means not every ticket was sold, when this is the case (as it usually is) you can just take the raw attendance number and compare it that way.

Spin it however you want, but the MLS is averaging nearly 17,000 fans per game -- that sounds "major league" to me.

And my Suzuki 650 "sounds" a like a small Harley-Davidson but that doesn't make it one. If we decided whether or not a sport was "major league" based solely on attendance then we better start taking a long look at MMA and WWE wrestling as well. The simple fact is some sports are far more popular than others. Soccer fans just want to their sport to be taken as seriously as the NFL, NBA, or MLB. We can't blame them for that but we also can't ignore the reality, MLS isn't even in the ballpark when compared to the popularity of the big three. There is a reason MLS pulls a 0.2 on TV, is it that all their fans are already at the games so there's no one left at home to watch them? Or it could be that the sport simply isn't very popular?

If we're stuck on adding a fourth sport then I nominate NASCAR or wrestling.

[Fred T. Jane]

There is a reason MLS pulls a 0.2 on TV, is it that all their fans are already at the games so there's no one left at home to watch them? Or it could be that the sport simply isn't very popular?

Or "MLS pulls as good of a rating as the NHL did when it was on ESPN2 also."

[rams80]

There is a reason MLS pulls a 0.2 on TV, is it that all their fans are already at the games so there's no one left at home to watch them? Or it could be that the sport simply isn't very popular?

Or "MLS pulls as good of a rating as the NHL did when it was on ESPN2 also."

And yet they pull these numbers with ESPN not ripping the sport for fun. Ouch...

[infrared41]

There is a reason MLS pulls a 0.2 on TV, is it that all their fans are already at the games so there's no one left at home to watch them? Or it could be that the sport simply isn't very popular?

Or "MLS pulls as good of a rating as the NHL did when it was on ESPN2 also."

What's your point, that soccer is somehow a viable "major league" because it gets the same lousy ratings the NHL once did? Neither league is capable of getting better ratings than a rerun of NASCAR Now or Baseball Tonight. The MLS ratings suck. So did the NHL ratings. All that says is that no one watches either league.

You might want to rethink your strategy on this one.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

If we're stuck on adding a fourth sport then I nominate NASCAR or wrestling.

If we need four big leagues, the fourth is clearly NASCAR. Or, for that matter, PGA Tour golf. Or maybe NFL, MLB, NBA, and College Football (with that last one right behind NFL as the biggest deal). There's no shame in MLS or NHL pulling in 15,000-20,000 fans per game. But if the television support isn't there, how major league can it be?

And, for what it's worth, WWE probably shouldn't even be in the conversation (and this is besides the point as it not being a sport). Yes, the WWE plays in front of 20,000-seat arenas twice a week and one Sunday a month, but they do so as a touring attraction. If WWE were based on out one arena, like Madison Square Garden or the Hartford Civic Center, I don't think you'd see 20,000 fans packing the arena as they do Rangers games every week. Part of the WWE's appeal is that it's a carnival-like atmosphere. It comes to your town, it's an event, and it's special that particular night. The Calgary Flames stay special 41 nights a year, and that's pretty impressive.

[Island_Style]

The WWE is a show, not a sporting event. It is World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT. The matches are fixed. Shocking, I know.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

The WWE is a show, not a sporting event. It is World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT. The matches are fixed. Shocking, I know.

You're saying that like it's something new and interesting. Plus, I said all of that in more detail in the post above yours. What was your point?

[nwtrailtrekker]

screw the NBA, Seattle needs an NHL team. however if they acquired one i would be conflicted, as a diehard Washingtonian and Canucks fan.

[Island_Style]

The WWE is a show, not a sporting event. It is World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT. The matches are fixed. Shocking, I know.

You're saying that like it's something new and interesting. Plus, I said all of that in more detail in the post above yours. What was your point?

Apparently it is to the dude who said it should count as a major sport. I learned the awful truth in 5th grade.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

One should never give too much credit to the intelligence level of a Ohio State grad, but I'm pretty certain infrared's reference of pro wrestling as a major sport was tongue in cheek.

[AJM]

As far as the Phoenix area goes we already have it all pretty much, but I think we should have a MLS franchise. With the large latino prescence and the growing fan base for the game of futbol we would be a great fit

First, are we all in agreement that we're adding the MLS to "the big four?"

Second, Arizona had a problem maintaining attendance for the Arizona Sahuaros.

We only seem to have great attendance when it's an international friendly these days.

If PHX is patient we will have a MLS expansion team in the future...2014-2016ish. I'm a 'yotes fan, but I will admit that their are other cities more deserving of a NHL franchise.

[Luigi74]

If we're stuck on adding a fourth sport then I nominate NASCAR or wrestling.

If we need four big leagues, the fourth is clearly NASCAR. Or, for that matter, PGA Tour golf. Or maybe NFL, MLB, NBA, and College Football (with that last one right behind NFL as the biggest deal). There's no shame in MLS or NHL pulling in 15,000-20,000 fans per game. But if the television support isn't there, how major league can it be?

And, for what it's worth, WWE probably shouldn't even be in the conversation (and this is besides the point as it not being a sport). Yes, the WWE plays in front of 20,000-seat arenas twice a week and one Sunday a month, but they do so as a touring attraction. If WWE were based on out one arena, like Madison Square Garden or the Hartford Civic Center, I don't think you'd see 20,000 fans packing the arena as they do Rangers games every week. Part of the WWE's appeal is that it's a carnival-like atmosphere. It comes to your town, it's an event, and it's special that particular night. The Calgary Flames stay special 41 nights a year, and that's pretty impressive.

People please stop with the NASCAR is the #4 sport b.s., sure they draw huge crowds but its one event per weekend in the same location, with every team in the race, they draw the same amount of people the NBA and NHL draw on a weekend, their tv ratings are also inflated due to the same reasons.

Back in the day when a lot of the wrestling promotions ran the same arena every week anything over 5,000 was considered a great crowd.

[infrared41]

One should never give too much credit to the intelligence level of a Ohio State grad, but I'm pretty certain infrared's reference of pro wrestling as a major sport was tongue in cheek.

You hurt me my friend.

And yes the idea of wrestling as a major sport was written with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.

[ferrousoxide66]

As far as the Phoenix area goes we already have it all pretty much, but I think we should have a MLS franchise. With the large latino prescence and the growing fan base for the game of futbol we would be a great fit

First, are we all in agreement that we're adding the MLS to "the big four?"

Second, Arizona had a problem maintaining attendance for the Arizona Sahuaros.

We only seem to have great attendance when it's an international friendly these days.

If PHX is patient we will have a MLS expansion team in the future...2014-2016ish. I'm a 'yotes fan, but I will admit that their are other cities more deserving of a NHL franchise.

Wow, I can imagine few things worse than playing soccer in the midsummer heat of Arizona.

[rams80]

If we're stuck on adding a fourth sport then I nominate NASCAR or wrestling.

If we need four big leagues, the fourth is clearly NASCAR. Or, for that matter, PGA Tour golf. Or maybe NFL, MLB, NBA, and College Football (with that last one right behind NFL as the biggest deal). There's no shame in MLS or NHL pulling in 15,000-20,000 fans per game. But if the television support isn't there, how major league can it be?

And, for what it's worth, WWE probably shouldn't even be in the conversation (and this is besides the point as it not being a sport). Yes, the WWE plays in front of 20,000-seat arenas twice a week and one Sunday a month, but they do so as a touring attraction. If WWE were based on out one arena, like Madison Square Garden or the Hartford Civic Center, I don't think you'd see 20,000 fans packing the arena as they do Rangers games every week. Part of the WWE's appeal is that it's a carnival-like atmosphere. It comes to your town, it's an event, and it's special that particular night. The Calgary Flames stay special 41 nights a year, and that's pretty impressive.

People please stop with the NASCAR is the #4 sport b.s., sure they draw huge crowds but its one event per weekend in the same location, with every team in the race, they draw the same amount of people the NBA and NHL draw on a weekend, their tv ratings are also inflated due to the same reasons.

Back in the day when a lot of the wrestling promotions ran the same arena every week anything over 5,000 was considered a great crowd.

If you consider that in many cases leagues such as the MLS and the NHL are just at "game of the week" status in regards to TV coverage, why should we use that against NASCAR in discussing their TV numbers. The race is NASCAR's "Game of the Week". Only with better TV numbers than the MLS and the NHL.

screw the NBA, Seattle needs an NHL team. however if they acquired one i would be conflicted, as a diehard Washingtonian and Canucks fan

Seattle also needs an arena you can stick a hockey rink in without chopping out half the seating. (sarcastic hyperbole, but from what I understand a significant chunk of the seating is taken out, and what's left has poor sightlines.)

[gueman]

If we're stuck on adding a fourth sport then I nominate NASCAR or wrestling.

If we need four big leagues, the fourth is clearly NASCAR. Or, for that matter, PGA Tour golf. Or maybe NFL, MLB, NBA, and College Football (with that last one right behind NFL as the biggest deal). There's no shame in MLS or NHL pulling in 15,000-20,000 fans per game. But if the television support isn't there, how major league can it be?

And, for what it's worth, WWE probably shouldn't even be in the conversation (and this is besides the point as it not being a sport). Yes, the WWE plays in front of 20,000-seat arenas twice a week and one Sunday a month, but they do so as a touring attraction. If WWE were based on out one arena, like Madison Square Garden or the Hartford Civic Center, I don't think you'd see 20,000 fans packing the arena as they do Rangers games every week. Part of the WWE's appeal is that it's a carnival-like atmosphere. It comes to your town, it's an event, and it's special that particular night. The Calgary Flames stay special 41 nights a year, and that's pretty impressive.

Amazingly I have agreed with all your posts in this thread. But if the WWE is touring so is NASCAR. Now NASCAR follows a schedule that is the same for the most part year after year. I don't follow the WWE so I don't know if they try to do the same. I agree 100% that NASCAR is a Major League caliber sport, it is but, because it is more personality driven (no pun intended) it is hard to view it in the same "class" as team/city based sports. Now to me any sport that can draw 100,000 plus from Feb. to November, with rabid fans that drive days to spend the weekend in far flung places like Bristol, Dover, Loudon , and cities like Atlanta, Chicago, and Phoenix is really a top 2 sport. The only thing that limits its growth in major metro areas is the size of the site needed for a 1 to 2 mile tri oval. I would love to see NASCAR attempt a Grand Prix style city streets race like Monaco or Long Beach, in say Baltimore, Seattle or Denver.