MLB Awards watch

[NJTank]

Is that for the full season or the second half, because from what I saw Utley struggled at times in the second half. Howard is the MVP his push in September made the difference. Each nite rooting for them to lose, it was the same HR Howard, RBI double Howard, Howard bog hit here big hi there. That's an MVP. I dont care much for overall OPS I want to know who is the difference maker.

[STL FANATIC]

Albert Pujols only put up his big numbers every single freaking month of the season.

But I guess you guys have discovered the formula for winning the MVP now.

Take it easy and have a crappy year, but play on a team good enough that they can keep you in contention. Then, when it's close in September, go all out and give your team a little extra push and suddenly you're the MVP for the whole year.

Genius.

Wish it wasn't so true.

[Shumway]

You know, I've had my doubts as K-Rod for MVP, but I really think I'm sold on it now. Granted, I am an Angels fan, but I've crapped my pants 60-some times when K-Rod comes into a game. He's not the best closer in the league, we know. He's blown saves, we know. BUT, if he doesn't do the job he did this year, the Angels don't win 100 games, heck, (hypothetically) if he effed up EVERY time he came in to pitch, the Angels win under 40 games. More than anyone else in BASEBALL HISTORY, he did his job for a season. So, as someone who's always been unsteady with a game in K-Rod's hands, I think he deserves the MVP. The Cy Young? Definitely not. He was the most valuable player to his team, but not the best pitcher in the league.

[mania]

Actually, I mis-read, and I'll fully account for my error. His second half was .855. I read his stats against left-handed pitchers instead.

First Half: .291/.372/.582/.955

Second Half: .292/.390/.465/.855

His power went away, but everything else stayed at about the same level. Wasn't really much of a slump in that regard.

But even with the lack of power in the second half, wasn't his second half more valuable than Howard's first half of .234/.324/.508/.832?

[mania]

You know, I've had my doubts as K-Rod for MVP, but I really think I'm sold on it now. Granted, I am an Angels fan, but I've crapped my pants 60-some times when K-Rod comes into a game. He's not the best closer in the league, we know. He's blown saves, we know. BUT, if he doesn't do the job he did this year, the Angels don't win 100 games, heck, (hypothetically) if he effed up EVERY time he came in to pitch, the Angels win under 40 games. More than anyone else in BASEBALL HISTORY, he did his job for a season. So, as someone who's always been unsteady with a game in K-Rod's hands, I think he deserves the MVP. The Cy Young? Definitely not. He was the most valuable player to his team, but not the best pitcher in the league.

Someone who only played 68 innings the entire season does not deserve genuine recognition for being the Most Valuable Player.

He was not asked to pitch more than an inning all year.

He rarely entered the game with runners on base, and was frequently given a 2-3 run cushion.

[NJTank]

Utley's power is what I was looking at when I said meh, Ryan Howard's September though he hit over .300 he had 32 RBI, 13 HR and it seemed as if each one of them was winning games. That's an MVP.

[mania]

"it seemed".

An MVP isn't just for September, he's for the entire season, and Howard was pretty much the OPPOSITE of valuable most of the season.

[rams80]

Utley's power is what I was looking at when I said meh, Ryan Howard's September though he hit over .300 he had 32 RBI, 13 HR and it seemed as if each one of them was winning games. That's an MVP.

No, that's the September Player of the Month. There is a difference.

[NJTank]

Well Howard also led all of baseball in RBI that's the single most important stat category for a hitter in my opinion. He also led MLB in HR.

[rams80]

Well Howard also led all of baseball in RBI that's the single most important stat category for a hitter in my opinion. He also led MLB in HR.

No, an RBI is as much on your teammates and their competence as you.

[mania]

RBIs are more a situation of circumstance and your teammate's performance than "importance".

If you have someone on third base with no outs, and you hit a fly out to deep right, there's a pretty good chance you get an RBI.

By the same token, if no one's on base, a triple won't get you an RBI.

[STL FANATIC]

Ryan Howard had 86 more at bats than Albert Pujols. Howard had 60 more at bats with RISP than Pujols.

Ryan Howard was was .320/.439/.589 with RISP.

Pujols was .339/.523/.678 with RISP.

Oh, and by the way, since we're so concerned with September.

Howard: .352/.422/.882 with 11 HRs and 32 RBIs

Pujols: .321/.427/.702 with 8 HRs and 27 RBIs

Albert was no September slouch. He was just so good the rest of the year he didn't overshadow his entire season in one month.

This really shouldn't even be a debate.

[gingerbreadmann]

Well Howard also led all of baseball in RBI that's the single most important stat category for a hitter in my opinion. He also led MLB in HR.

No, an RBI is as much on your teammates and their competence as you.

Do you still have that animanga japan cartoon thing facepalm image? I can see it being applied here.

I don't think some people appreciate how historically incredible Pujols is. It's mind-blowing.

[mania]

FUN WITH Howard's HRs, September, and their importance on the team's success.

September 3rd, vs. Washington: 2 HRs, the team loses 7-9.

September 7th (2nd game), vs. New York: 1 HR, the team loses 3-6.

September 9th, vs. Florida: 1 HR, the team loses 8-10.

September 10th, vs. Florida: 1 HR, the team loses 3-7.

September 11th, vs. Milwaukee: 1 HR, the team wins 6-3.

September 14th (1st game), vs. Milwaukee: 1 HR, the team wins 7-3.

September 16th, vs. Atlanta: 1 HR, the team wins 8-7.

September 19th, vs. Florida, 1 HR, the team loses 14-8.

September 24th, vs. Atlanta, 1 HR, the team loses 10-4.

September 26th, vs. Washington, 1 HR, the team wins 8-4.

So in games he was "winning every game with his home runs", the team actually went 4-6. And there-in lies the problem with your entire Ryan Howard for MVP argument. Just because he was playing very good baseball does not mean that the team benefited from it when it mattered. 30 days, in baseball, is an incredibly small sample size, and just because he played very well within those 30 days does not mean that every big play separated the Phillies from the playoffs. Because if his performance was that vital, the case could be that even a league average 1B could've had the division locked up earlier, because Howard was incredibly awful throughout the first half, and August, that September could've just been a formality.

[See Red]

You know, I've had my doubts as K-Rod for MVP, but I really think I'm sold on it now. Granted, I am an Angels fan, but I've crapped my pants 60-some times when K-Rod comes into a game. He's not the best closer in the league, we know. He's blown saves, we know. BUT, if he doesn't do the job he did this year, the Angels don't win 100 games, heck, (hypothetically) if he effed up EVERY time he came in to pitch, the Angels win under 40 games. More than anyone else in BASEBALL HISTORY, he did his job for a season. So, as someone who's always been unsteady with a game in K-Rod's hands, I think he deserves the MVP. The Cy Young? Definitely not. He was the most valuable player to his team, but not the best pitcher in the league.

How is he the most valuable? If the teams not winning after 8 innings, he has no value to his team. Whomever contributes the most towards getting the ball in K-Rod's hands for a save situation is a great deal more valuable than K-Rod.

[rams80]

Well Howard also led all of baseball in RBI that's the single most important stat category for a hitter in my opinion. He also led MLB in HR.

No, an RBI is as much on your teammates and their competence as you.

Do you still have that animanga japan cartoon thing facepalm image? I can see it being applied here.

I don't think some people appreciate how historically incredible Pujols is. It's mind-blowing.

You mean this one?

[BBTV]

Forget about the MVP... after reading this thread, I think I might vote for Pujols for president... or king.

[STL FANATIC]

Here's an absolutely wonderful article by Joe Posnanski on just how great but overlooked Albert Pujols is, not just this year but for his entire career.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...jols/index.html

Here's an excerpt, but there's plenty more including some statistical breakdowns.

Pujols is so good you would not expect anyone to miss it. And yet, it seems, people do. When Sports Illustrated's Jon Heyman asked 20 anonymous front office executives this summer to name the player they would build a team around, one (1!) chose Pujols. Heck, when you totaled up the execs' ballots, Pujols received only one more point than Joba Chamberlain. Yes, many of those decision-makers probably disqualified Pujols because he's not young (and many still think he's not even as young as he says). Still, GMs apparently have more respect for other veterans such as A-Rod and Chase Utley.

Over the last couple of weeks, I asked five baseball executives and scouts to name the best player in baseball -- nothing official, just an informal poll. One did say Albert Pujols. Three said A-Rod and a fifth offered Grady Sizemore. Those are perfectly fine choices. The interesting part is that when I brought up Pujols, TWO of them said: "Oh yeah, I didn't really think about him."

That seems to be a trend: Many baseball fans just don't seem to think about him. Pujols' greatness is so easily apparent -- he hits, he walks, he hits for power, he plays outstanding defense at first base, he makes winning plays just about every day and his teammates will tell story after story after story about how Pujols helped them with their swing, taught them a curveball, cured their sciatica, introduced them to their wives.

And maybe that gets to the heart of why he's sometimes overlooked. Maybe he's so good it's boring. Maybe Pujols' greatness, like a plane landing safely, doesn't make the news. There's no doubt that A-Rod is so much more human, you can see his mood swings, you can read about his crises, you can boo his salary and marvel at the way he flicks the bat out there and send the ball soaring. Sizemore and Curtis Granderson and Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran play a more exciting style, they play more significant defensive positions, they can wow you with their power and speed and the way they chase down fly balls in the gap or grounders in the hole. Ryan Howard and Ryan Braun and maybe even Ryan Ludwick -- lots of Ryans -- may hit with more power. Dustin Pedroia and Chase Utley and Joe Mauer may win more hearts with their scrappiness.

But Pujols is simply better than any of them.

[HedleyLamarr]

Oh, and by the way, since we're so concerned with September.

Howard: .352/.422/.882 with 11 HRs and 32 RBIs

Pujols: .321/.427/.702 with 8 HRs and 27 RBIs

Albert was no September slouch. He was just so good the rest of the year he didn't overshadow his entire season in one month.

This really shouldn't even be a debate.

What were Albert's numbers in September when the Cardinals were still mathematically in playoff contention? I briefly looked at Pujols' stats the other night, and at least 3 of his HR's were on the final weekend of the season.

[rams80]

Utley's power is what I was looking at when I said meh, Ryan Howard's September though he hit over .300 he had 32 RBI, 13 HR and it seemed as if each one of them was winning games. That's an MVP.

No, that's the September Player of the Month. There is a difference.

And he was named that. They presented him with the award before the game today.