PAID LOGO CONTEST!

[Mac the Knife]

I just wanted to let the members of the CCSLC know that moments ago I set up a paid logo contest through Logotournament.com for a new business venture I'm starting called "Confederate Candle."

The contest will pay out $333.33 to the winner (less anything that Logotournament.com might get from the winning designer), and while it's a Logotournament.com contest I definitely would like to see folks from the CCSLC submit items for it, and ultimately someone from here win it!

So if you frequent Logotournament.com, check out a contest for "Confederate Candle," get your creativity going, and submit an entry. Who knows? Maybe you're goofing around on the CCSLC and other logo sites will pay!

[1stDownCreative]

Logotournament.com is a disgrace to the design community

[Drew22]

I agree with 1DC. I'm not a designer, but this seems like a bad idea. Isn't it merely spec work?

[1stDownCreative]

Well, when you have no experience while in college (or out of), this is pretty good. Sure it may be a disgrace, but it can pad your light resume.

and that is the exact reason why any designer or graphic artist will never get paid to their talents.

so don't plan on getting a high-paying design job because of this exact line of thought.

anyone reading this thread needs to go to http://www.no-spec.com/

i'm not trying to sound like an ass, but when a manager at a mcdonalds will make more than 90% of the graphic artist on this board / around the country because logo and artwork design is watered down with crap like logotourny or istock, it just speaks volumes to where the design community is moving towards.

any artist that submits to these type of "spec work" challenges is just working towards getting paid less and less in their careers if they decide to go into a creative position.

[chuckymack]

Spec work doesn't lower wages for competent designers. If you're a good enough designer, your portfolio will show it and you will get a good-paying job. If you're a no-talent hack, you'll get paid like one?and will most likely have to resort to this sort of thing to make ends meet. If Mac wants to have several logos to choose from, that's his right as an American citizen and as a businessman?and he shouldn't be chastised for it, especially since he's paying for the winning design.

That being said, spec work is?for lack of a better term?design prostitution. But, in this era of information overload and instant gratification, what industry hasn't been cheapened?

[chuckymack]

More power to ya. I'm one of the lucky ones who managed to get a steady job as a designer, but I know what it's like waiting for a call back. Even if yours isn't the winner, everything you design teaches you a little something you didn't know before?the more you do, the better you 'll become. I know Indiana has a government-run website that has over 25,000 jobs listed?you may want to see if Michigan has anything like that.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

i'm not trying to sound like an ass, but when a manager at a mcdonalds will make more than 90% of the graphic artist on this board / around the country because logo and artwork design is watered down with crap like logotourny or istock, it just speaks volumes to where the design community is moving towards.

I've made this comment in other threads, but it seems like "true" graphic designers want to collude to set their own market rates. In their world, there are no logo factories -- even though people like them -- and there are no design contests -- even though people enjoy them.

If society pays more for cheap burgers than fancy logos, I don't know what to tell you. History is filled with under-appreciated, underpaid artists. If graphic design is under-appreciated and underpaid, perhaps you need to expand your professional skill set?

I'm not trying to sound like an ass or anything, but we don't have the right to a high-paying job. If you've ever shopped at Wal Mart or Target or McDonalds, then you understand the appeal of online logo factories.

[quantum]

Is this place any better when we have a request forum where 99% of the requests compensate with words in lieu of cash? I've not an advocate for design contests, but Mac's contest is a hell of a lot more than most of those asshats offer.

[Davidson]

i'm not trying to sound like an ass, but when a manager at a mcdonalds will make more than 90% of the graphic artist on this board / around the country because logo and artwork design is watered down with crap like logotourny or istock, it just speaks volumes to where the design community is moving towards.

I've made this comment in other threads, but it seems like "true" graphic designers want to collude to set their own market rates. In their world, there are no logo factories -- even though people like them -- and there are no design contests -- even though people enjoy them.

If society pays more for cheap burgers than fancy logos, I don't know what to tell you. History is filled with under-appreciated, underpaid artists. If graphic design is under-appreciated and underpaid, perhaps you need to expand your professional skill set?

I'm not trying to sound like an ass or anything, but we don't have the right to a high-paying job. If you've ever shopped at Wal Mart or Target or McDonalds, then you understand the appeal of online logo factories.

i pretty much agree with what you are saying.

with the rise and proliferation of the design packages, many more people are able to engage in the supply end of the business.

this of course has the effect of driving the price down whilst at the same tie diminishing the mean quality of the product.

i think the thing that upsets designers is that its frustrating to see people being happy to be sold crap. unfortunately most people

cannot discern the difference in quality.

[fiasco!]

Well, when you have no experience while in college (or out of), this is pretty good. Sure it may be a disgrace, but it can pad your light resume.

and that is the exact reason why any designer or graphic artist will never get paid to their talents.

so don't plan on getting a high-paying design job because of this exact line of thought.

anyone reading this thread needs to go to http://www.no-spec.com/

i'm not trying to sound like an ass, but when a manager at a mcdonalds will make more than 90% of the graphic artist on this board / around the country because logo and artwork design is watered down with crap like logotourny or istock, it just speaks volumes to where the design community is moving towards.

any artist that submits to these type of "spec work" challenges is just working towards getting paid less and less in their careers if they decide to go into a creative position.

You don't sound like an ass, you're merely speaking the truth.

[pcgd]

Well blame the companies who won't hire recent graduates.

You're not entitled to get a high paying job out of college. You'll get a crappy job and possibly work a second job like the rest of us did. You'll most likely not even be a creative artist for 2 or 3 years. If it was 20+ years ago your hope of even getting something in the marketplace as a fresh out of college designer would be slim to non for at least 5 years. There are SO many more companies hiring fresh designers out of college now than they were even 5 years ago.

[Mac the Knife]

Guys, while I'm aware that some of you disdain these types of things, and I knew I'd be condemned by some for it, my thought process for the start of this thread was simple: I (for once) have some actual, paying logo design work to be done, and I wanted CCSLC members to have the opportunity to take part in it, in hopes that they'd get at least something for their efforts. I could've just as easily said nothing about this here, but I consider many here acquaintences who might want to financially benefit from something they love to do.

The reality? If not for the LogoTournament site, spec work, whatever you wish to call it, there'd be no business and no money for me to offer, period. I'm in business, both with this and my other for-profit ventures, to make money - first, last, and always. Consequently I'm going to, in almost all cases, look for the best bargains, the best deals I can. Doesn't matter if I'm buying graphic design services or a toilet brush for my office's bathroom.

While I readily agree that designers should get everything their talents warrant, ultimately it's the marketplace that decides what they're worth. Consequently, they also ultimately decide what work merits their compensation, and what doesn't. It's the same as in one of my businesses (radio voice-over production). Gone are the days when I can command $300 for :30 finished work; someone else will grind it out cheaper, and the client won't notice any quality differences (and admittedly in many cases, there are none).

Sadly, some graphic artists will never come to a similar realization: the days of sitting down face-to-face with clients, getting a general idea as to what they want to convey with a design, then producing something a client may or may not like and billing them based on what you think your services are worth - they're rapidly coming to an end. For better or worse, there are others who'll gladly do it cheaper, and will produce what's at least in the client's mindset an acceptable product - taking (perhaps easily earned) money off of your table in the process.

[gordie_delini]

Mac the last paragraph in your comment is something I couldn't disagree with more at all. Worthwhile clients will ALWAYS be around, and they will ALWAYS have sit-down, face-to-face meetings, those are the people who truly care about the quality of the work they get and the ones willing to pay for it. Trust me on this one - I see it every day at my office. It's akin to saying that print design is dead, yet here I am every day overloaded on print projects. Paper isn't going anywhere and neither are clients. But if you need that as a justification for your logo tournament, so be it. Were I you and really wanted to help out some CCSLCers, I would have sent out an RFP in this forum or in the Requests forums. Ask people for bids, serious bids, choose the best price, work with a designer, get a contract, and don't support spec work. That's all I have to say on that.

[andrewharrington]

i'm not trying to sound like an ass, but when a manager at a mcdonalds will make more than 90% of the graphic artist on this board / around the country because logo and artwork design is watered down with crap like logotourny or istock, it just speaks volumes to where the design community is moving towards.

I've made this comment in other threads, but it seems like "true" graphic designers want to collude to set their own market rates. In their world, there are no logo factories -- even though people like them -- and there are no design contests -- even though people enjoy them.

If society pays more for cheap burgers than fancy logos, I don't know what to tell you. History is filled with under-appreciated, underpaid artists. If graphic design is under-appreciated and underpaid, perhaps you need to expand your professional skill set?

I'm not trying to sound like an ass or anything, but we don't have the right to a high-paying job. If you've ever shopped at Wal Mart or Target or McDonalds, then you understand the appeal of online logo factories.

This is the most realistic viewpoint. It's fine and dandy to stick to your moral guns and wait around for clients to contact you offering a few thousand dollars and a contract for a legit project, but the fact is, those are few and far between for many young professionals in the field. We're in a crappy economy, how many of your local taverns are closing up shop while the McDonalds around the corner is expanding its hours? Sure, there will always be local restaurants, just like there will always be clients, but they are certainly less common and much harder to find at this point while the low-bidding cheap, fast food is serving billions of customers, just like design contests are serving thousands of clients who want a fast logo for little cash.

Fact is, most people don't think of artwork as a valued commodity or a serious profession and therefore don't want to pay for it. We see it happen with every form of art, eventually. Once other people think they can do it, they do, and they drive the price down because they cater to those people who don't think that artwork has a high value. Those of you who deplore places that sell logos for $300? Have you ever bought a stock photo? If so, you're doing the same thing to the photography industry.

[gordie_delini]

I don't see stock photography and logo mills as the same thing, andrew. For one, photographers sell their photos to those companies, and in certain cases maintain the rights to them and receive residuals from that. Places like logo tournament only pay designers if, and that's a big if, their design gets chosen. there's a bit of a difference there for me. but i see your overall point.

[andrewharrington]

I was referring specifically to the designer outrage over iStock planning to sell submitted logos for 300-700 credits. Nobody in graphic design really cared when they started selling photos and diluting that industry, but it's a big to-do when they start selling logos and diluting this one. Granted, the laws regarding photos are a bit different than the ones regarding logos, with regard to exclusivity and one-time use and all that jazz, but it's still very hypocritical.

Logo mills, on the other hand, are what they are, and I don't think they're going away. If people want to spend their time designing logos, even though 9 of every 10 pieces goes for naught, there's nothing anyone can really do to stop it. They, as designers, have the right to work for however much they feel is fair, and the contest holders, as clients, are entitled to accept bids and choose the one they like best.