XXI Olympic Winter Games

[STL FANATIC]

I've never really understood why there's such a split between the two.

I love hockey. But I also love basketball. (And baseball and football, etc.)

Now, my love for basketball pretty much stays to the collegiate level. And I always say how I can't get into the NBA. And there's a number of reasons I sometimes point to, but I think the real reason is just that I don't have a local team. Put an NBA team in St. Louis, and I think I'd get over every criticism I have. Heck, the NHL is pretty stupid about how they set up their gameplay (in some areas), but it doesn't stop me from enjoying it.

So I guess I'm an NHL over NBA guy, but I have no more love for either sport. I just need a team. (And unfortunately, I can't just pick any old team. I used to be a big Bulls fan do to MJ and proximity from St. Louis. Now that I'm in Champaign, it'd be even easier. But the passion just isn't there. I'll probably need an STL team to ever get into it. That may never happen. So it goes...)

[IceCap]

I can't really tell if Admiral is pulling a schtick there or not. He usually suggests an enjoyment from watching sports but criticizes any deep emotional connection. Now he's advocating for it in pro sports.

I'll say this. Patty Kane is a little b***h and Ryan Kessler is an a**hat. As soon as the NHL games start again, my feelings on Kane will return, though Kessler earned a lot of permanent respect from me. But regardless, for the last two weeks, those were my guys. That's how it should be.

Agreed. I'm usually in agreement with admiral, but in this instance, I just don't get it. What's so wrong with cheering for your country in international play? Sure, it would be awesome to see the Leafs win a Cup in my lifetime, but two Olympic Gold Medals for Canada is (probably) on par with that.

Was yesterday's game an All-Star game? No. To say that the Olympic Hockey Tournament is a glorified series of All-Star games is downright foolish. How many All-Star games are as good as the fantastic hockey we saw during this tournament?

I'm pretty much on the same page as STL here. I will now resume hating Roberto Luongo. For the past two weeks though, he was on my team, and for the better part of the tournament he was one of its most important components.

As for basketball, I used to be really into it during the MJ years. I was a HUGE Raptors fan back then, and I really got into the two Jazz/Bulls NBA Finals. I don't know what happened, really. Now I only casually follow the Raptors. LeBron James is slowly getting me interested in the NBA again, though. I make time for the Raptors/Cavs games.

[charger77]

It seems to me that the reason hockey can't carry fans of Olympic Hockey over to NHL Hockey is pretty simple. In the Olympics every game is meaningful. Yesterday's game was for all the marbles. The same can't be said of the next Blue Jackets game. So yeah, casual fans are going to really enjoy an all or nothing game in the Olympics and maybe even a few of them will try to carry it over to watching NHL hockey. Just don't be surprised when "casual fan" decides that Tuesday night's Jackets - Predators game, the 53rd of 80 for the Jackets, just doesn't have the same impact that USA - Canada for the gold did.

I like hockey but I have to be honest; I don't watch it at all until the playoffs and then I only watch elimination games.

Having the best of the best on Olympic Rosters helps too.

Hell, Marc Andre Fleury was the non-dressing #3 goal for Team Canada but the #1 on the Cup Champs.

For Canada, USA, Russia, etc... a lot of "top line players" were playing a fourth line/checking line role.

-Dan

[IceCap]

Wasn't the North America vs World concept for the NHL All-Star game an attempt to cash in on the public enthusiasm for Olympic hockey? That went well

[BBTV]

There is nothing wrong with cheering on your country's team during international play, even if they have players that you otherwise "hate" (as long as you're mature enough to realize that the only reason you hate them is because they're not on your team.)

There's also nothing wrong with rooting for a team or player that's playing against your country's team. This is NOT a war, it's just a hockey tournament. Nothing will change in the lives of Canadiens or Americans or Swedes or whatever based on who wins medals or not. Are any of the Canadiens on this board better hockey players because their team won the gold medal? Is the Canadian dollar somehow worth more now (actually it might be, but I'm sure for other reasons.) It's just sports - it doesn't have nearly the social-political implications that the games had 30 years ago.

I'm not hating on Canada, because it really didn't matter to me who won - the same example could be used for the US if "we" had won.

So again - if you get a sense of pride from it then great for you - have fun and enjoy it. Just realize that anyone who isn't all "U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!" isn't a traitor or a turncoat or something. Liking sports teams at all is pretty silly when you think about it - yet we all do it. It shouldn't matter what reason you have for it*.

*I still hate Cowboys fans who aren't from Texas though!

[IceCap]

There is nothing wrong with cheering on your country's team during international play, even if they have players that you otherwise "hate" (as long as you're mature enough to realize that the only reason you hate them is because they're not on your team.)

Pretty much.

*I still hate Cowboys fans who aren't from Texas though!

Also, Yankees and Red Sox fans who aren't from New York and Boston, respectively.

[Korbyn]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=312025

It was an epic game that delivered an epic audience.

Sunday's gold medal Men's Hockey game has become the most-watched television broadcast ever in Canadian history, with an average audience of 16.6 million viewers.

Nearly half of the Canadian population watched the entire game on average, while 80 percent of Canadians watched some part of the game (26.5 million).

*edit*

Ratings were also huge in the States:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/People-watch-hockey-Gold-medal-ratings-huge-for;_ylt=Ap3zYYP25E0v.SaNeNXSfSE5nYcB?urn=nhl,224998

Steve Lepore of Puck The Media passed along the first glimpse of the enormous ratings success in the U.S. for the gold medal game against Canada: 17.6/33 overnight rating, via Sports Business Daily, and 27.6 million viewers on average. Writes Lepore:

This is up 46% from the 2002 USA/Canada showdown, and will very likely be the highest-rated hockey game since 1980. The share means that 1 in every 3 Americans with a TV were watching the game. This is, to put it professionally, out of this world.

Sports Media Watch offers further perspective on the hockey numbers:

Sunday's game drew a higher overnight rating than every World Series game since 2004 (including every game of Yankees/Phillies last year), every NBA Finals telecast since 1998, and every NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four game since at least '98.

Excluding the NFL, the 17.6 overnight for the game is the second-highest of the year for any sporting event, behind only the Texas/Alabama BCS National Championship Game in January (18.2).

Unreal numbers!

[The_Admiral]

I can't really tell if Admiral is pulling a schtick there or not. He usually suggests an enjoyment from watching sports but criticizes any deep emotional connection. Now he's advocating for it in pro sports.

I'll say this. Patty Kane is a little b***h and Ryan Kessler is an a**hat. As soon as the NHL games start again, my feelings on Kane will return, though Kessler earned a lot of permanent respect from me. But regardless, for the last two weeks, those were my guys. That's how it should be.

I'm not advocating the sort of overamped (false) sense of identification that collegiate/international play seems to engender, I'm just saying that if you like Sidney Crosby in January and March, you may as well like him in February, too, and it's not unpatriotic or treasonous or anything. I won't begrudge anyone a passing interest in the fortunes of their teams' players, and just approaching the Olympics with "aw cool, my guy scored in the all-star game, good for him" is healthier than letting yourself get wrapped up in the jingoism of it all, because as globalized as we've become, I don't suppose rooting for a common place of birth is any less arbitrary than rooting for skating penguins or flying wheels or various stylized letterforms. At least with pro teams, the connection is in the fact that following a team is a day-in-day-out hobby to which one devotes (likely) undue time/money/energy. It doesn't stand for anything bigger than what it is; I just want the Blackhawks to win because I watch their games and sleep in their sweatshirts. Yeah, I'm an American every day, but it doesn't really have anything to do with liking hockey. Above all, I'm just glad nobody I like got hurt; the Slovaks insisting on playing a recently concussed Marian Hossa struck fear into my heart.

Oh and David Backes is again a dickface. Good to be back on the horse!

[infrared41]

There's also nothing wrong with rooting for a team or player that's playing against your country's team. This is NOT a war, it's just a hockey tournament.

Just realize that anyone who isn't all "U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!" isn't a traitor or a turncoat or something. Liking sports teams at all is pretty silly when you think about it - yet we all do it. It shouldn't matter what reason you have for it*.

Well said Vet. It's nice to see someone with a little perspective.

I'll be honest. When the Olympics started I told my girlfriend that I wanted The U.S. to win the most medals overall but I wanted Canada to win the most gold medals. Frankly, I didn't see a thing in the world wrong with wishing success for our Canadian neighbors. It was their Olympics and I wanted them to do well both in presentation and in competition. If I wasn't rooting for an American then I was rooting for the Canadian. So throw me in with the turncoat crowd I guess.

[IceCap]

I can't really tell if Admiral is pulling a schtick there or not. He usually suggests an enjoyment from watching sports but criticizes any deep emotional connection. Now he's advocating for it in pro sports.

I'll say this. Patty Kane is a little b***h and Ryan Kessler is an a**hat. As soon as the NHL games start again, my feelings on Kane will return, though Kessler earned a lot of permanent respect from me. But regardless, for the last two weeks, those were my guys. That's how it should be.

I'm not advocating the sort of overamped (false) sense of identification that collegiate/international play seems to engender, I'm just saying that if you like Sidney Crosby in January and March, you may as well like him in February, too, and it's not unpatriotic or treasonous or anything. I won't begrudge anyone a passing interest in the fortunes of their teams' players, and just approaching the Olympics with "aw cool, my guy scored in the all-star game, good for him" is healthier than letting yourself get wrapped up in the jingoism of it all, because as globalized as we've become, I don't suppose rooting for a common place of birth is any less arbitrary than rooting for skating penguins or flying wheels or various stylized letterforms. At least with pro teams, the connection is in the fact that following a team is a day-in-day-out hobby to which one devotes (likely) undue time/money/energy. It doesn't stand for anything bigger than what it is; I just want the Blackhawks to win because I watch their games and sleep in their sweatshirts. Yeah, I'm an American every day, but it doesn't really have anything to do with liking hockey. Above all, I'm just glad nobody I like got hurt; the Slovaks insisting on playing a recently concussed Marian Hossa struck fear into my heart.

Oh and David Backes is again a dickface. Good to be back on the horse!

If you want to look at it that way, consider this. What loyalty does Patrick Kane have to the Blackhawks, or the city of Chicago? The right circumstances could land him in Dallas, Minnesota, St. Louis, New York, or *gasp* Detroit. Heck, maybe even a Canadian team (he did play his junior hockey right here in London ON). He'll always be an American though. When you consider that on a larger scale, loyalty to a club is no less silly then rooting for your international team.

Sorry you can't find any sort of sense of positive nationalism in events like the Olympics, but that's you I suppose. No need to piss on everyone's parade though.

Also, will you please stop with the "the Olympic hockey tournament is a series of glorified All-Star games" nonsense? The games in the Olympic tournament blow most NHL All-Star games away. Your disparaging comparison doesn't fit.

[DEAD!]

... ah gotta love the Russian media's take on the games...

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/28-02-2010/112417-goodbye_vancouver-0

Doesn?t it feel great to slam the door behind you as you walk out, stick up the middle finger using the palm of the left hand on the upper right forearm for extra leverage and blow a giant raspberry? That is exactly how it feels as Russia leaves Vancouver after disappointing Games with a question, was the Canadian ice hockey team on drugs?

The middle finger goes to the shockingly dangerous organization of the Games which cost the life of a Georgian luger right at the outset on day 1 (Nodar Kumaritashvili lost his life because the track was unfit, and indeed the corner where he crashed was elevated the following day) and the giant raspberry goes to the appalling, abominable and biased judging of events which cost Russia medal after medal.

The middle finger and the giant raspberry go to the Canadian ice hockey team. Were they on drugs the day they beat Russia so overwhelmingly? These days, and since the USSR?s 8-1 thrashing of Canada in the early 80s, Canada-Russia ice hockey games are always very closely fought events and there has not been such a monumental difference between the two sides. Very strange, the more so since the same Team Canada (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) put in an extremely lacklustre performance against lowly Slovakia and was lucky to reach Sunday?s final. And for anyone who is about to be shocked by the question, one supposes it is OK to make cheap and gratuitous references to Russians and doping, but when the ball rolls back home it hurts. Right?

We will never know, will we? We will never know, because the officials at Vancouver predictably did not mete out to the Canadians the shockingly humiliating treatment given to the Russian skier Natalya Korosteleva, asked to produce a urine sample during the break between the quarter-and semi-finals of her event. Had she complied, she would not have had time to enter the semis. And such was the hounding of the Russian athletes that there are rumours many refused to eat for fear their food would be laced with steroids.

The more shocking it was due to the insolence shown by Olympic officials already installed in Canada prior to the Games, insinuating that the Russian athletes are synonymous with doping. The fact of the matter is, however, that there has not been one single doping incident involving a Russian athlete in Vancouver.

Nobody in Russia will miss Vancouver. The entire team was affected by the death of Nodar Kumaritashvili (contrary to popular belief in the western media, Russians do not hate Georgians and have no desire to constantly humiliate the country despite the murderous adventures of war criminal and Washington protégé Saakashvili), the team members were affected by the climate of hostility and intrusion shown by officials (take for example the banning of Stanislav Detkov in the Men's Snowboard Parallel Giant Slalom after his gate jammed and the insolent remarks made to him by officials when he complained) and the results were what we saw. Three Golds, Five Silvers and Seven Bronze medals.

Not bad by the standards of many but paltry for Russia. Now we see the value of the Soviet sports schools, now we see the value of the Youth Movements which raised children who were proud to represent and win for their country. It was not the Soviet Union that collapsed in the early 90s, it was discipline, fibre and morals.

For once and for all, let us blow that idiotic reference to ?collapse of the USSR? into outer space and leave it there. The Soviet Union did not collapse. It simply disengaged, on a voluntary basis, as foreseen in its Constitution. No sweat, no problems, no big deal. Its original objectives had been achieved in full: security of the state, security on the streets, universal education, women?s rights, excellent and free public services, zero unemployment, guaranteed and free housing, transportation, utilities, leisure time activities, an excellent healthcare service and index-linked pensions. Pretty good in just a few generations, and this despite the trillions of dollars being spent by Canada and its friends trying to sabotage the model, assassinate Communist political leaders and so on as the Soviet Union freed countless countries from the yolk of Imperialism and implemented the same excellent public services in them. In Africa, in Latin America, in Asia.

However, times change and Russia has maintained, in general, good relations with its neighbours. It is not Moscow?s fault that the Baltic States decided to side with NATO not out of any animosity towards Russia but more so because it is good business and greases a few palms, but don?t tell Washington. It is not Moscow?s fault that Georgia is run by a tie-chewing homicidal maniac who should be strung up by his balls.

It will take Russia a few more years to reach the pinnacle of sporting excellence. This may come already at Sochi in 2014. Canadians will find themselves welcomed as friends. They will have their hands shaken in the streets. People will smile at them. The Organization at Sochi will not spend the weeks in the run-up to the Games making insolent remarks about Canadians and doping. Canadian athletes will not be asked to produce urine samples seconds before they are due to compete. They will not be hounded day and night. This will be the difference.

Sochi, the Gateway to the Future, is about where North meets South, East meets West. The Games will not be dangerous for the athletes, the judges will not be biased. Sochi will show Vancouver how it?s done, because despite the results of these Games, Russians do it better!

[rangerfan94]

I was hoping to see Gold for USA hockey. Men and Women. Both Gold games were very exciting. But the finish Sunday was more than anyone could ask for. USA goal to force overtime then the goal by Crosby for the win. I really enjoyed the 4 on 4 in O.T....man what a fast pace !!. Glad it didnt end in a shoot-out. What would the situation have been if the game was tied after the first O.T. ? Would it have gone to a shoot-out ?.....Well Congrats to both of The Canadian winners. Well done.

[IceCap]

... ah gotta love the Russian media's take on the games...

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/28-02-2010/112417-goodbye_vancouver-0

Doesn’t it feel great to slam the door behind you as you walk out, stick up the middle finger using the palm of the left hand on the upper right forearm for extra leverage and blow a giant raspberry? That is exactly how it feels as Russia leaves Vancouver after disappointing Games with a question, was the Canadian ice hockey team on drugs?

The middle finger goes to the shockingly dangerous organization of the Games which cost the life of a Georgian luger right at the outset on day 1 (Nodar Kumaritashvili lost his life because the track was unfit, and indeed the corner where he crashed was elevated the following day) and the giant raspberry goes to the appalling, abominable and biased judging of events which cost Russia medal after medal.

The middle finger and the giant raspberry go to the Canadian ice hockey team. Were they on drugs the day they beat Russia so overwhelmingly? These days, and since the USSR’s 8-1 thrashing of Canada in the early 80s, Canada-Russia ice hockey games are always very closely fought events and there has not been such a monumental difference between the two sides. Very strange, the more so since the same Team Canada (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) put in an extremely lacklustre performance against lowly Slovakia and was lucky to reach Sunday’s final. And for anyone who is about to be shocked by the question, one supposes it is OK to make cheap and gratuitous references to Russians and doping, but when the ball rolls back home it hurts. Right?

We will never know, will we? We will never know, because the officials at Vancouver predictably did not mete out to the Canadians the shockingly humiliating treatment given to the Russian skier Natalya Korosteleva, asked to produce a urine sample during the break between the quarter-and semi-finals of her event. Had she complied, she would not have had time to enter the semis. And such was the hounding of the Russian athletes that there are rumours many refused to eat for fear their food would be laced with steroids.

The more shocking it was due to the insolence shown by Olympic officials already installed in Canada prior to the Games, insinuating that the Russian athletes are synonymous with doping. The fact of the matter is, however, that there has not been one single doping incident involving a Russian athlete in Vancouver.

Nobody in Russia will miss Vancouver. The entire team was affected by the death of Nodar Kumaritashvili (contrary to popular belief in the western media, Russians do not hate Georgians and have no desire to constantly humiliate the country despite the murderous adventures of war criminal and Washington protégé Saakashvili), the team members were affected by the climate of hostility and intrusion shown by officials (take for example the banning of Stanislav Detkov in the Men's Snowboard Parallel Giant Slalom after his gate jammed and the insolent remarks made to him by officials when he complained) and the results were what we saw. Three Golds, Five Silvers and Seven Bronze medals.

Not bad by the standards of many but paltry for Russia. Now we see the value of the Soviet sports schools, now we see the value of the Youth Movements which raised children who were proud to represent and win for their country. It was not the Soviet Union that collapsed in the early 90s, it was discipline, fibre and morals.

For once and for all, let us blow that idiotic reference to “collapse of the USSR” into outer space and leave it there. The Soviet Union did not collapse. It simply disengaged, on a voluntary basis, as foreseen in its Constitution. No sweat, no problems, no big deal. Its original objectives had been achieved in full: security of the state, security on the streets, universal education, women’s rights, excellent and free public services, zero unemployment, guaranteed and free housing, transportation, utilities, leisure time activities, an excellent healthcare service and index-linked pensions. Pretty good in just a few generations, and this despite the trillions of dollars being spent by Canada and its friends trying to sabotage the model, assassinate Communist political leaders and so on as the Soviet Union freed countless countries from the yolk of Imperialism and implemented the same excellent public services in them. In Africa, in Latin America, in Asia.

However, times change and Russia has maintained, in general, good relations with its neighbours. It is not Moscow’s fault that the Baltic States decided to side with NATO not out of any animosity towards Russia but more so because it is good business and greases a few palms, but don’t tell Washington. It is not Moscow’s fault that Georgia is run by a tie-chewing homicidal maniac who should be strung up by his balls.

It will take Russia a few more years to reach the pinnacle of sporting excellence. This may come already at Sochi in 2014. Canadians will find themselves welcomed as friends. They will have their hands shaken in the streets. People will smile at them. The Organization at Sochi will not spend the weeks in the run-up to the Games making insolent remarks about Canadians and doping. Canadian athletes will not be asked to produce urine samples seconds before they are due to compete. They will not be hounded day and night. This will be the difference.

Sochi, the Gateway to the Future, is about where North meets South, East meets West. The Games will not be dangerous for the athletes, the judges will not be biased. Sochi will show Vancouver how it’s done, because despite the results of these Games, Russians do it better!

That was great

[DEAD!]

... ah gotta love the Russian media's take on the games...

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/28-02-2010/112417-goodbye_vancouver-0

That was great

Given this author's past articles, it's almost expected that he would write some ridiculous stuff...

[Korbyn]

I was hoping to see Gold for USA hockey. Men and Women. Both Gold games were very exciting. But the finish Sunday was more than anyone could ask for. USA goal to force overtime then the goal by Crosby for the win. I really enjoyed the 4 on 4 in O.T....man what a fast pace !!. Glad it didnt end in a shoot-out. What would the situation have been if the game was tied after the first O.T. ? Would it have gone to a shoot-out ?.....Well Congrats to both of The Canadian winners. Well done.

It would have ended in a shootout, had it still been tied after overtime

No playoff/championship game in hockey should end that way ... ever.

[NJTank]

I was hoping to see Gold for USA hockey. Men and Women. Both Gold games were very exciting. But the finish Sunday was more than anyone could ask for. USA goal to force overtime then the goal by Crosby for the win. I really enjoyed the 4 on 4 in O.T....man what a fast pace !!. Glad it didnt end in a shoot-out. What would the situation have been if the game was tied after the first O.T. ? Would it have gone to a shoot-out ?.....Well Congrats to both of The Canadian winners. Well done.

It would have ended in a shootout, had it still been tied after overtime

No playoff/championship game in hockey should end that way ... ever.

I agree any medal game Gold or Bronze should have been sudden death until a goal was scored.

Being the nature of the Olympic Tournament I think it is impossible for the quarters or semis to have that format and should go to a shootout after 20 mins.

[The_Admiral]

If you want to look at it that way, consider this. What loyalty does Patrick Kane have to the Blackhawks, or the city of Chicago? The right circumstances could land him in Dallas, Minnesota, St. Louis, New York, or *gasp* Detroit. Heck, maybe even a Canadian team (he did play his junior hockey right here in London ON). He'll always be an American though. When you consider that on a larger scale, loyalty to a club is no less silly then rooting for your international team.

He's "loyal" to the Blackhawks insofar as they write his checks, but who cares about "loyalty"? He's not my puppy. Kaner's kind of an asshat. I don't care that he was born in Buffalo. I only like him because he's really good at scoring goals for the team I like.

Also, will you please stop with the "the Olympic hockey tournament is a series of glorified All-Star games" nonsense? The games in the Olympic tournament blow most NHL All-Star games away. Your disparaging comparison doesn't fit.

I don't mean to be disparaging, but you take a bunch of the best players from different teams and put 'em together (and wrap them in flags). That's essentially what it is. Not my fault the NHLASG's a big bag o' suck. Just trying to keep proper perspective as a fan of a team that could win a Stanley Cup, that's all. Eyes on the prize and stuff.

[HedleyLamarr]

I've never gotten this argument. It's not as dumb as the "Your team won the Cup because they have mostly Canadians on the team." argument, but it's close. Do Canadians use this excuse for every international competition when they come up short?

The US and Canada both spend a lot more money on national athletics than just about every nation. Both nations send approximately the same amount of athletes to the Winter Games. And considering how much of the US population lives and/or participates in Winter Games-ish activities, the population ratio gets a lot closer to that 10:1 ratio Canadians tend to point out.

While it may be a fact, it's a grossly exaggerated excuse, at best. If you're going to flaunt that around, then explain why little old Norway has earned more overall Winter Games medals than Canada.

Well first off, sour grapes? Your prediction that Canada wouldn't get past Slovakia is even more amusing now.

Given how well the US played yesterday I didn't want to gloat, because they very easily could have won that game. Plus the majority of American fans here seem like (from what one can tell over the interwebs) mature, centred people. Plus, it seems like this USA team will be one of, if not the, team to beat for years to come.

Still, I thoroughly enjoyed lauding the victory over vmd for his amusing sig thingy. The same can be said for you, to be perfectly honest.

As for the issue at hand, assuming this fact alluded you, I made that post while I was still very excited about seeing Canada prevail in the gold medal mens hockey game. So yeah, illogical national pride was at an all-time high for me when I made that post.

Secondly, while the US and Canada may come in at 1 and 2 in terms of funding for national athletics, it's kind of like the difference between between the Yankees and Red Sox. Yeah, the Red Sox spend the second most of all MLB teams, but they're still far behind the Yankees. I may be remembering Summer Olympics statistics from 2008, but if I remember correctly what Canada spends on Olympic programs doesn't even really come close to what the US spends.

Finally, congrats to Norway.

Red: It's not sour grapes at all. It's more of a question than a statement. I really don't get why, when stats aren't skewed in the Canadians favor, the argument of the 10:1 ratio always has to be made. Congrats to Canada and their 14 gold medalists. Truth be known, I would pull for a Canadian if an American wasn't directly involved. All I'm pointing out is that it's a dumb argument to make. I don't hear many folks saying Canada won gold in hockey despite the population difference. I didn't hear any Canadians being embarassed about Canada beating Norway 8-0 when Canada holds a huge advantage in population and players with NHL experience than Norway has. That's the point I'm making.

Blue: It wasn't that far-fetched of a thought. The final margain was one goal, right? You're telling me you weren't nervous at all in the last couple minutes of the Canada/Slovakia game? So I guessed wrong on the outcome of the game....big deal. No one bats 1.000 in predictions. I like to make bold predictions every now and then....I've got cajones.

Orange: I wasn't on here in two days. Frankly, I wasn't going to read through 13 pages of new posts...mostly filled with gold-medal game talk, just to find your posts.

[IceCap]

If you want to look at it that way, consider this. What loyalty does Patrick Kane have to the Blackhawks, or the city of Chicago? The right circumstances could land him in Dallas, Minnesota, St. Louis, New York, or *gasp* Detroit. Heck, maybe even a Canadian team (he did play his junior hockey right here in London ON). He'll always be an American though. When you consider that on a larger scale, loyalty to a club is no less silly then rooting for your international team.

He's "loyal" to the Blackhawks insofar as they write his checks, but who cares about "loyalty"? He's not my puppy. Kaner's kind of an asshat. I don't care that he was born in Buffalo. I only like him because he's really good at scoring goals for the team I like.

My point being that you rooting for the Blackhawks, or myself rooting for the Leafs, is no less silly then either of us rooting for our national teams. Yes, in the latter we're rooting for a collection of good players that happened to be born in the same artificially created political entity as we were. They only get together to represent the country at select times, and them winning an international tournament doesn't REALLY better the country in any way,

In the former, however, we're rooting for a bunch of overpayed players who do not necessarily represent our community like we would like to pretend they do just because they happen to play for our local team at the moment. They have no real attachment to the teams we like, thus we have no real investment in them. Why get attached to Patrick Kane or Sidney Crosby when under the right circumstances they could skip town and never look back?

So really, rooting for a team in international play is no more silly then the concept of rooting for your local team, the way I see it. BBTV hit the nail on the head; the concept of being a fan of any sports team, even on a scholastic level, is silly when you get right down to it. Yet we all do it, and really it's just a byproduct of human nature. So embrace it, recognize it as something that doesn't make a lot of sense, on any level, but enjoy it. I really don't see how it's totally logical for me to be a Leafs fan, but completely silly to root for Team Canada in the Olympics. It's the same thing, really.

Also, will you please stop with the "the Olympic hockey tournament is a series of glorified All-Star games" nonsense? The games in the Olympic tournament blow most NHL All-Star games away. Your disparaging comparison doesn't fit.

I don't mean to be disparaging, but you take a bunch of the best players from different teams and put 'em together (and wrap them in flags). That's essentially what it is. Not my fault the NHLASG's a big bag o' suck. Just trying to keep proper perspective as a fan of a team that could win a Stanley Cup, that's all. Eyes on the prize and stuff.

No, it isn't your fault that the NHLASG sucks. But it still does suck. The Olympic Hockey Tournament's best games, including the Gold Medal game, did not suck. The comparison doesn't work. Call the Olympics a series of exhibition games if you want, but the All-Star remark really doesn't fit.

I don't see how these Games affected the Blackhawks' chances of winning the Stanley Cup. Every team suspended activity for the Games, and most had a few players participate. So the 'Hawks are no worse off then any other NHL club.

Also, I'm sure the players involved in the tournament would consider the Olympic Gold a prize worth having. The looks of joy and disappointment seen on the faces of the Canadian and American players following yesterday's game aren't the looks you see on players following an All-Star Game.

I think the crux of our disagreement stems from different takes on the place of nationalism in today's (western) society. That in and of itself is an entirely different topic for another time, but I will say this; I don't see nationalism as obsolete, and at this point in human history I don't see it as necessarily detrimental. Part of the reason I enjoy the Olympics is because it allows for nationalist feelings to be expressed in a positive manner. Basically the Olympics let me say "go Canada and cousins" without the knowledge that I'm rooting for red coats to gun down indigenous Africans.

[IceCap]

I've never gotten this argument. It's not as dumb as the "Your team won the Cup because they have mostly Canadians on the team." argument, but it's close. Do Canadians use this excuse for every international competition when they come up short?

The US and Canada both spend a lot more money on national athletics than just about every nation. Both nations send approximately the same amount of athletes to the Winter Games. And considering how much of the US population lives and/or participates in Winter Games-ish activities, the population ratio gets a lot closer to that 10:1 ratio Canadians tend to point out.

While it may be a fact, it's a grossly exaggerated excuse, at best. If you're going to flaunt that around, then explain why little old Norway has earned more overall Winter Games medals than Canada.

Well first off, sour grapes? Your prediction that Canada wouldn't get past Slovakia is even more amusing now.

Given how well the US played yesterday I didn't want to gloat, because they very easily could have won that game. Plus the majority of American fans here seem like (from what one can tell over the interwebs) mature, centred people. Plus, it seems like this USA team will be one of, if not the, team to beat for years to come.

Still, I thoroughly enjoyed lauding the victory over vmd for his amusing sig thingy. The same can be said for you, to be perfectly honest.

As for the issue at hand, assuming this fact alluded you, I made that post while I was still very excited about seeing Canada prevail in the gold medal mens hockey game. So yeah, illogical national pride was at an all-time high for me when I made that post.

Secondly, while the US and Canada may come in at 1 and 2 in terms of funding for national athletics, it's kind of like the difference between between the Yankees and Red Sox. Yeah, the Red Sox spend the second most of all MLB teams, but they're still far behind the Yankees. I may be remembering Summer Olympics statistics from 2008, but if I remember correctly what Canada spends on Olympic programs doesn't even really come close to what the US spends.

Finally, congrats to Norway.

Red: It's not sour grapes at all. It's more of a question than a statement. I really don't get why, when stats aren't skewed in the Canadians favor, the argument of the 10:1 ratio always has to be made. Congrats to Canada and their 14 gold medalists. Truth be known, I would pull for a Canadian if an American wasn't directly involved. All I'm pointing out is that it's a dumb argument to make. I don't hear many folks saying Canada won gold in hockey despite the population difference. I didn't hear any Canadians being embarassed about Canada beating Norway 8-0 when Canada holds a huge advantage in population and players with NHL experience than Norway has. That's the point I'm making.

Blue: It wasn't that far-fetched of a thought. The final margain was one goal, right? You're telling me you weren't nervous at all in the last couple minutes of the Canada/Slovakia game? So I guessed wrong on the outcome of the game....big deal. No one bats 1.000 in predictions. I like to make bold predictions every now and then....I've got cajones.

Orange: I wasn't on here in two days. Frankly, I wasn't going to read through 13 pages of new posts...mostly filled with gold-medal game talk, just to find your posts.

Liberal:The thought process is this. The US has a wider population base then Canada does. So, in theory at least, you have a wider array of people to choose from when selecting your country's elite in each sport, because it figures that since you have more people, you have more people specializing in each sport then we do. So when we beat you guys in Gold, and come within a respectable number in the overall medal count, well we think it's pretty cool that a country with a much smaller population can do that well against a neighbour with a much larger population. You may very well be right. It may be over-exaggerated. There is a reasoning behind it though.

Conservative: No, it wasn't that far-fetched of a thought, and yes I was nervous in the waning moments of that game. No question. My problem with your prediction was that you assumed Canada had blown passed Germany and Russia simply by riding a wave of emotion following the loss to the US. While emotion did play a part in the team's resurgence after that game, it was ultimately dwarfed by the larger factor, the talent of Team Canada. That was, simply speaking, one talented team. While you acknowledged Slovakia as being a very good team, you completely dismissed the talent level on Team Canada, and that maybe the German and Russian games allowed the talent on that team to gel. And really, can you blame me? You predicted the team I was pulling for wasn't going to make it past the semis, and then they beat your team in the finals. You said it yourself, you like to make bold predictions. Well sometimes that backfires on ya. Ask that Redskins fan in Louisiana who lost his tv.

NDP:Um, but you did find it. The post I was referring to was the one you quoted/replied to. The post I made about the population differences? How it was a coup for Canada to beat the States in the Gold count despite having a much smaller population? The one you responded to that began this current back and forth? That was the post I was referring to. I just watched my national team win a thrilling hockey game in OT in a game they were the underdogs in (don't debate it, the Americans, by virtue of their earlier win over Canada and steamrolling of Finland, were the favourites). So I was riding a wave of excitement and made a post along those lines regarding medals and population differences that perhaps didn't make a lot of sense. My point is that given the situation a little excess patriotic cheer and gloating can be excused given the circumstances.