Are mlb teams building new stadium too quickly

[Lights Out]

The MLB would need to institute a salary cap for Montreal to be a possibility - that study said as much.

[Gothamite]

And yet that's more likely than Tampa.

[Lights Out]

Oh, I completely agree. As someone who used to make the occassional trip up to Montreal to see the Expos, I'd love to see the Expos come back.

[The_Admiral]

The baseball earth in Montreal is saltier than their pastrami. The dream is dead. Thanks, Loria, you prick.

(I suppose the marginalization of anglophones didn't help either but you know)

[Gothamite]

Not just Loria. I know he makes a convenient bad guy, but In the end the city didn't come through with a new stadium, which has been the price of admission for more than half a century.

[The_Admiral]

They couldn't because of what a money pit Olympic Stadium was (still is!). It doesn't absolve them completely, but "we're still pumpkin money into this perpetually broken stadium so that it doesn't fall apart in the middle of the night" is more defensible than a mere "nah we no wanna." So let's blame the Olympics and shoddy architecture/workmanship too.

[bosrs1]

They couldn't because of what a money pit Olympic Stadium was (still is!). It doesn't absolve them completely, but "we're still pumpkin money into this perpetually broken stadium so that it doesn't fall apart in the middle of the night" is more defensible than a mere "nah we no wanna." So let's blame the Olympics and shoddy architecture/workmanship too.

Still the city's fault. They're the ones who commissioned that lame brained stadium and kept sinking money into it.

[Norva]

I don't see why Tampa is so unlikely. A lot of people want them there, there have been efforts to buy land in Channelside for instance and bring them there. There has been effort and talk and t isn't any less likely than Montreal, which will not build a new stadium, same with Portland who didn't even support a AAA team.

Montreal had the same issue as the Rays in some ways, a terrible terrible stadium location no where near the population center. Look at when the Als moved closer to the city, attendance actually increased a lot. A stadium in Tampa would easily increase average attendance at least by 5k. The political squabbling will make it hard but I still don't see it as any less likely than anywhere else.

[McCall]

I don't see why Tampa is so unlikely. A lot of people want them there, there have been efforts to buy land in Channelside for instance and bring them there. There has been effort and talk and t isn't any less likely than Montreal, which will not build a new stadium, same with Portland who didn't even support a AAA team.

Montreal had the same issue as the Rays in some ways, a terrible terrible stadium location no where near the population center. Look at when the Als moved closer to the city, attendance actually increased a lot. A stadium in Tampa would easily increase average attendance at least by 5k. The political squabbling will make it hard but I still don't see it as any less likely than anywhere else.

The Rays' lease says they have to stay in St. Petersburg for quite a number of years (can't remember the exact number). They may be able to break it to leave the area, but there's really no way they'd be let out to move to Tampa. Basically is St. Pete or bust.

[pmoehrin]

I think Jeffrey Loria made it virtually impossible for the Expos to succeed, but baseball isn't coming back to Montreal anytime soon.

They would need a new ballpark and the city isn't about to put up a dime for one.

[pmoehrin]

I don't see why Tampa is so unlikely. A lot of people want them there, there have been efforts to buy land in Channelside for instance and bring them there. There has been effort and talk and t isn't any less likely than Montreal, which will not build a new stadium, same with Portland who didn't even support a AAA team.

Montreal had the same issue as the Rays in some ways, a terrible terrible stadium location no where near the population center. Look at when the Als moved closer to the city, attendance actually increased a lot. A stadium in Tampa would easily increase average attendance at least by 5k. The political squabbling will make it hard but I still don't see it as any less likely than anywhere else.

The Rays' lease says they have to stay in St. Petersburg for quite a number of years (can't remember the exact number). They may be able to break it to leave the area, but there's really no way they'd be let out to move to Tampa. Basically is St. Pete or bust.

They wouldn't be looking into moving into Tampa Bay if something couldn't be worked out.

I'm not sure what the exact terms of the lease are, but I can't see it being daunting enough where St. Pete would rather have the Rays move out of the area completely then go to Tampa.

[Gothamite]

I do.

The Rays are posturing. Of course they're going to look at all options. Doesn't mean they're very likely.

We might think of Tampa and St. Pete as being essentially interchangeable, but St. Pete doesn't. They have the same "little brother" inferiority complex that caused so much trouble in Anaheim.

Tampa Bay has to be considered a failed market. Fans don't care when the Rays are in first place every day of the session. Fans don't care when the Rays win a pennant. The best young team in baseball, and they play before whole sections of empty seats.

When players themselves are moved to publicly complain about the lousy fan support, it's a failed market.

The only thing, and I mean the only thing, keeping them there is the lease. If they could break it to move to Tampa, they'd move somewhere else instead. Orlando, or Portland, or somewhere else they could convince a city to build a ballpark. Rolling the dice on a risky new market is better than staying in one that has proven itself to be bad.

[AndrewPF]

The baseball earth in Montreal is saltier than their pastrami. The dream is dead. Thanks, Loria, you prick.

(I suppose the marginalization of anglophones didn't help either but you know)

I agree. My girlfriend's father (a Montreal native) told me that Montreal was a great baseball town until MLB went on strike. The Expos were great, and that year was to be their year, and it all came to a grinding halt when the league went on strike. When the strike was over, many Quebecois were disillusioned and had lost faith in baseball. That, coupled with the Canadian dollar getting kicked in the balls led to the team's downfall in Montreal.

[Norva]

I do.

The Rays are posturing. Of course they're going to look at all options. Doesn't mean they're very likely.

We might think of Tampa and St. Pete as being essentially interchangeable, but St. Pete doesn't. They have the same "little brother" inferiority complex that caused so much trouble in Anaheim.

Tampa Bay has to be considered a failed market. Fans don't care when the Rays are in first place every day of the session. Fans don't care when the Rays win a pennant. The best young team in baseball, and they play before whole sections of empty seats.

When players themselves are moved to publicly complain about the lousy fan support, it's a failed market.

The only thing, and I mean the only thing, keeping them there is the lease. If they could break it to move to Tampa, they'd move somewhere else instead. Orlando, or Portland, or somewhere else they could convince a city to build a ballpark. Rolling the dice on a risky new market is better than staying in one that has proven itself to be bad.

The market does care about the team, just like in Montreal the location is horrible. Do not underestimate location. You go one day in Tampa and it would be obvious to you people do care about the Rays there. Move the stadium to Tampa and attendance, at least, increases 5k probably a lot more.

The stadium sucks and the location is incredibly removed from the population center, and like I said before going to Tampa is just if not more likely then going anywhere else because nowhere else has a stadium any more suitable and the days of public financed stadiums are gone. The Rays are staying in Tampa Bay imo.

[Gothamite]

I've spent time in Tampa. Nobody cares about the Rays. Not even baseball fans, who are more likely to follow the Yankees or Red Sox.

Pathetic excuses about the location are just that.

Look, Dodger Stadium is an absolute nightmare to get to on a weeknight. We give Angelinos a lot of grief about getting to the park late and leaving early, but at least they bother to show up. Tampans don't.

[Norva]

How much time?

People do care, I am sorry but it's hard to judge a market you aren't in. I see Rays gear everywhere, turn on the local news and whenever you see locals guess what they are wearing? Rays gear. I went to a Storm game, I saw a huge amount of people wearing, guess what, Rays gear. It's easy to paint a market you have little knowledge of from far away but Tampa does care. And it's funny to me how in Montreal people say it's a baseball market (and I agree) that had a horrible location but in Tampa location doesn't matter. Seems like a double standard to me.

I see tons of Rays gear and proportionally Tampa is among the very top rung of local TV viewing. People watch them, people care.

Also the Rays are not struggling at all financially, they are turning a profit, so why leave to an unproven market like Portland, Las Vegas, San Antonio, Charlotte etc and leave a market you are making money in? The Rays have made/looked into a feasibility study....in Tampa. I think they would like to settle there down there to over any other untested market. And Montreal is not an option, no one will play in the O without guarantee of a new stadium and the MLB burnt it's bridges there. The Rays haven't been posturing much either because they realize there is no where else for them to go and their is plenty of opportunity within a market. It takes time in a transient market but a look into schools will clearly show kids are growing up as fans even if their parents cling to old loyalties. Tampa is a baseball rich area, tons of MLBers have come from the area and it's long been a little league hotbed, baseball can and will work there and when all is said and done the Rays will stay in Tampa Bay, most likely in Tampa proper.

[raysox]

@Gothamite

Actually, no. When were you here? Before or after 2008? Call them bandwagoners, but the fan base grew immensely. It happens everywhere. Like I said before, it takes a generation to build a strong fan base. The parents who move here from up north keep their teams, which is fine, I guess. But most of the time, the kids pick up the team in the area they grew up in. SO once that generation grows up, they pass it on and on. The stadium is also a factor. They built it in the late 80s, since then the area it's self grew a lot too. Think of it as a triangle...

They built the stadium right about the 275 sign. Now that the whole area has truly developed(I'm talking a lot.) Since then, my Middle and High school have been orange groves, turned into schools. The stadium is at the bottom point. What they need to do, is build a stadium in the middle. That would equally attract people from all over the area. The location where it bends south is in North St. Pete. That means the lease is upheld, and the market is balanced. If you think I'm just a Rays fan who wont give up hope, ask HedleyLamar. I remember him saying how bad the location is.

THe team can strive here. They just have to be smart about it, and someone has to fund it. It's a tall order, but it can work.

[McCall]

How much time?

People do care, I am sorry but it's hard to judge a market you aren't in. I see Rays gear everywhere, turn on the local news and whenever you see locals guess what they are wearing? Rays gear. I went to a Storm game, I saw a huge amount of people wearing, guess what, Rays gear. It's easy to paint a market you have little knowledge of from far away but Tampa does care. And it's funny to me how in Montreal people say it's a baseball market (and I agree) that had a horrible location but in Tampa location doesn't matter. Seems like a double standard to me.

I see tons of Rays gear and proportionally Tampa is among the very top rung of local TV viewing. People watch them, people care.

Also the Rays are not struggling at all financially, they are turning a profit, so why leave to an unproven market like Portland, Las Vegas, San Antonio, Charlotte etc and leave a market you are making money in? The Rays have made/looked into a feasibility study....in Tampa. I think they would like to settle there down there to over any other untested market. And Montreal is not an option, no one will play in the O without guarantee of a new stadium and the MLB burnt it's bridges there. The Rays haven't been posturing much either because they realize there is no where else for them to go and their is plenty of opportunity within a market. It takes time in a transient market but a look into schools will clearly show kids are growing up as fans even if their parents cling to old loyalties. Tampa is a baseball rich area, tons of MLBers have come from the area and it's long been a little league hotbed, baseball can and will work there and when all is said and done the Rays will stay in Tampa Bay, most likely in Tampa proper.

Listen, they are not moving to Tampa. They can't. Their lease will not allow them. They'd probably only be able to break it to leave the entire market. But as long as they're in Tampa Bay, they're restricted to St. Pete. The city will hold them to it.

[The_Admiral]

Like I said before, it takes a generation to build a strong fan base. The parents who move here from up north keep their teams, which is fine, I guess. But most of the time, the kids pick up the team in the area they grew up in. SO once that generation grows up, they pass it on and on.

Said it before, and I'll see it again: asswipe Yankee fans will forever beget asswipe Yankee fans. This "next generation" will all be swaggering around yelling about how the glorious New York Yankees spring training complex is the best ballpark in all of FLARRRIDUH, just like the last one. I don't think this "Yankee father, Ray son" model is a tenable one. Sons bond with their fathers over baseball. How do you think I chose the goddamn Chicago Cubs? A feasibility study? You don't grow up a son of New Yorkers, regaled with tales of Yankee greatness, and say "hm, cool, but I think I like this team that plays in a warehouse and trades all its players."

[uuh70]

I've spent time in Tampa. Nobody cares about the Rays. Not even baseball fans, who are more likely to follow the Yankees or Red Sox.

Pathetic excuses about the location are just that.

Look, Dodger Stadium is an absolute nightmare to get to on a weeknight. We give Angelinos a lot of grief about getting to the park late and leaving early, but at least they bother to show up. Tampans don't.

as far as this year goes...half the dodger fans show up. this is the emptiest i have seen dodger stadium on a consistent basis. but your right us dodger fans do go.