2012 NFL Season Thread

[Kramerica Industries]

Chiefs player shoots girlfriend to death. Then kills self in front of the team. Coward.

Clearly severe mental illness was involved. How does cowardice factor into this at all?

Until mental illness has conclusively been excluded, it doesn't. At all.

No, it just means he was a crazy coward. John Wayne Gacy was nuts. It doesn't excuse a damn thing. He deserved to be called anything and everything.

Mental illnesses can cause people to do stuff that they would never even think of if they were sane.

And becoming mentally ill is something that cannot be avoided - only treated if diagnosed.

[BlueSky]

So Gothamite, McCarthy and co. believe mental illness excuses or explains murdering a woman? At the end of the day, what difference does it make? My thoughts whenever this happens are the same, whether it's Columbine or your garden variety domestic dispute that gets out of hand: if you're going to kill yourself, fine. There's no reason in the world to take anyone else with you.

Anyone here happen to read the recent SI piece called "The Boy They Couldn't Kill"? You want a coward, you'll find one in that story.

Goth, had to chuckle at your comment about seizing the high ground. You're on a horse so high a lot of times I'm tempted to ask for your mailing address so I can send you an oxygen tank and some binoculars so you can see us mere mortals down below.

[Punch]

To clarify, I'm not arguing that Belcher should be excused for his wrongdoings because mental illness reasons. I am stating that I think the word "coward" is tossed around like candy even when the facts have not yet been sorted out. It's as if people are trying to be the first to claim "COWARD!!!!111one" just so they can come back and say "Told ya so lol" when the facts become evident.

[BlueSky]

To clarify, I'm not arguing that Belcher should be excused for his wrongdoings because mental illness reasons. I am stating that I think the word "coward" is tossed around like candy even when the facts have not yet been sorted out. It's as if people are trying to be the first to claim "COWARD!!!!111one" just so they can come back and say "Told ya so lol" when the facts become evident.

I agree, it's too soon to label this as anything but a horrific tragedy. As for the mental illness angle, Kramerica is right but I tend to see things through the filter of being so sick of the endless parade of excuses and justifications trotted out by criminal defense lawyers trying to get their clients a break.

[GriffinM6]

I really don't know what to say about this. What was wrong with this guy? Was he depressed? Did he love her so much he wanted to take her with him? He must've, because he left a 3-month old orphaned daughter behind. This whole situation is just awful though. I couldn't imagine what it was like for Crennel and Piolli to be given thanks like that, and then hear the sound of the same man's self-killing gunshot only moments later.

[BlueSky]

I really don't know what to say about this. What was wrong with this guy? Was he depressed? Did he love her so much he wanted to take her with him? He must've, because he left a 3-month old orphaned daughter behind. This whole situation is just awful though. I couldn't imagine what it was like for Crennel and Piolli to be given thanks like that, and then hear the sound of the same man's self-killing gunshot only moments later.

It's a cruel thing to do to someone. I took a class once on suicide prevention and they played a number of 911 calls. A typical example goes like this:

Caller: I want to report a shooting at the pool area of XYZ Apartments.

Operator: How many people have been shot?

Caller: Just one...me. (sound of gunshot)

In my opinion that's where a lot of the "coward" thing comes from, because it's cruel and heartless to inflict your own death on others. Even family members who are left behind wondering whether they could've done something. A friend of mine killed herself in 2007 and believe me I have questioned myself many, many times. I feel I let her down even though we lived in different cities and only caught up from time to time.

[McCall]

I feel sympathy for his daughter more than anyone, and family, as well as the family of his girlfriend.

I feel for the coaches and staff who witnessed as well as his teammates who have to deal with this horrific situation.

They should remember his girlfriend, an unnecessary victim of a senseless crime who, by no actions of her own, will not get to see her daughter grow up.

I feel nothing for Belcher. Mental illness or not, proper use of the word "coward" or not, the guy took an innocent life in cold blood. For this reason alone, he should NOT be publicly memorialized. If his teammates want to remember him in private, that's one thing. But to come out and put the number of a murderer on any part of their uniforms or the stadium as a tribute to a murderer is downright sickening.

[Island_Style]

I feel sympathy for his daughter more than anyone, and family, as well as the family of his girlfriend.

I feel for the coaches and staff who witnessed as well as his teammates who have to deal with this horrific situation.

They should remember his girlfriend, an unnecessary victim of a senseless crime who, by no actions of her own, will not get to see her daughter grow up.

I feel nothing for Belcher. Mental illness or not, proper use of the word "coward" or not, the guy took an innocent life in cold blood. For this reason alone, he should NOT be publicly memorialized. If his teammates want to remember him in private, that's one thing. But to come out and put the number of a murderer on any part of their uniforms or the stadium as a tribute to a murderer is downright sickening.

POTD

People are trying to make Belcher the victim.

[CS85]

I feel sympathy for his daughter more than anyone, and family, as well as the family of his girlfriend.

I feel for the coaches and staff who witnessed as well as his teammates who have to deal with this horrific situation.

They should remember his girlfriend, an unnecessary victim of a senseless crime who, by no actions of her own, will not get to see her daughter grow up.

I feel nothing for Belcher. Mental illness or not, proper use of the word "coward" or not, the guy took an innocent life in cold blood. For this reason alone, he should NOT be publicly memorialized. If his teammates want to remember him in private, that's one thing. But to come out and put the number of a murderer on any part of their uniforms or the stadium as a tribute to a murderer is downright sickening.

I agree in regard to having no real feeling for Belcher in one way or the other. He's a murderer who is now dead, that's pretty much where it ends for me.

Regardless of HOW the Chiefs/NFL choose to handle addressing this during the next Chiefs game, whenever it is, there MUST be some element of closure, even if it's simply a moment of silence for the families/victims of the tragedy.

POTD

People are trying to make Belcher the victim.

Wrong - people are simply not dancing on a guy's corpse to make some overblown statement about how morally upstanding they are. Your tiresome act today has been really disappointing. I understand that people are upset over this but I really don't get the need to inflate yourself on a message board by constantly harping about what a terrible person this guy was.

Get over yourself.

[McCall]

I feel sympathy for his daughter more than anyone, and family, as well as the family of his girlfriend.

I feel for the coaches and staff who witnessed as well as his teammates who have to deal with this horrific situation.

They should remember his girlfriend, an unnecessary victim of a senseless crime who, by no actions of her own, will not get to see her daughter grow up.

I feel nothing for Belcher. Mental illness or not, proper use of the word "coward" or not, the guy took an innocent life in cold blood. For this reason alone, he should NOT be publicly memorialized. If his teammates want to remember him in private, that's one thing. But to come out and put the number of a murderer on any part of their uniforms or the stadium as a tribute to a murderer is downright sickening.

I agree in regard to having no real feeling for Belcher in one way or the other. He's a murderer who is now dead, that's pretty much where it ends for me.

Regardless of HOW the Chiefs/NFL choose to handle addressing this during the next Chiefs game, whenever it is, there MUST be some element of closure, even if it's simply a moment of silence for the families/victims of the tragedy.

Yes, a moment of silence "to those lost and affected by this tragedy" is a good way to handle it. His name should not be mentioned, but that's a way to express sympathy to his family, who DID suffer in this.

[CS85]

Yes, a moment of silence "to those lost and affected by this tragedy" is a good way to handle it. His name should not be mentioned, but that's a way to express sympathy to his family, who DID suffer in this.

Precisely, and I'll say again, there's no way the Chiefs should put Belcher on some sort of pedestal here. He did what he did and that's the end of it. There's a vast amount of the story that's untold, but there's no doubt he pulled the trigger and in addition to permanently changing the life of his daughter and families have no doubt likely traumatized the two guys who were right there when he did himself in.

[Island_Style]

Get over yourself. You gave me more crap for calling him a coward than you gave him for killing the mother of his child. I called a killer a coward. Worse things out there. Why don't you calm down.

[CS85]

Get over yourself. You gave me more crap for calling him a coward than you gave him for killing the mother of his child. I called a killer a coward. Worse things out there. Why don't you calm down.

I'm perfectly calm, I'm just tired of reading your useless contributions to this thread.

[Island_Style]

Get over yourself. You gave me more crap for calling him a coward than you gave him for killing the mother of his child. I called a killer a coward. Worse things out there. Why don't you calm down.

I'm perfectly calm, I'm just tired of reading your useless contributions to this thread.

Didn't realize someone was forcing you to. Sorry about that.

[BlueSky]

Somebody post the .gif of Joker and his popcorn...

[cohenj21]

According to cbsports.com the NFL is saying the Panthers-Chiefs game will be played as scheduled.

Disgusting move from Goodell, as the reports are that the Chiefs' players were begging him to postpone or cancel the game. Of course, Roger only seems to care about $$$$.

Would love to see some of those reports you're talking about. I think they have to play the game. Even if we throw the standard NFL protocol/competitive balance issues out the window, which we should in this terrible tragedy, what does playing the game on Monday night do to give closure to anyone in the organization? The reason anyone would give to cancel tomorrow's game would be to acknowledge the tragedy, but would anyone be calling for a cancellation if Belcher had killed only his girlfriend and not himself?

Cancelling the game would be a result of Belcher's death, and you don't cancel a game to acknowledge the death of a murderer. Period.

[AndrewPF]

The right thing is cancel the game neither team has a shot at playoffs

Please tell me this was a case of accidental poor word choice.

[Lights Out]

Would love to see some of those reports you're talking about.

It's a moot point since the game will be played, but...

Lee Hacksaw Hamilton ‏@hacksaw1090

Chiefs captain Tamba Hali asked NFL to postpone game...NFL response "Play on"..do not understand this at all.

Lee Hacksaw Hamilton ‏@hacksaw1090

Chiefs on conference call begging NFL to move game to Monday nite-asking Crennel coach 30-hours after player killed himself infront coach

Yes, I know Hacksaw's prone to exaggeration at times but he also has a lot of connections around the league. Doubt he'd be lying about this one.

Cancelling the game would be a result of Belcher's death, and you don't cancel a game to acknowledge the death of a murderer. Period.

No, it would be an acknowledgement that maybe it's unfair to expect the players and coaches to go out on that field so soon after they witnessed a tragedy.

[McCall]

According to cbsports.com the NFL is saying the Panthers-Chiefs game will be played as scheduled.

Disgusting move from Goodell, as the reports are that the Chiefs' players were begging him to postpone or cancel the game. Of course, Roger only seems to care about $$$$.

Would love to see some of those reports you're talking about. I think they have to play the game. Even if we throw the standard NFL protocol/competitive balance issues out the window, which we should in this terrible tragedy, what does playing the game on Monday night do to give closure to anyone in the organization? The reason anyone would give to cancel tomorrow's game would be to acknowledge the tragedy, but would anyone be calling for a cancellation if Belcher had killed only his girlfriend and not himself?

Cancelling the game would be a result of Belcher's death, and you don't cancel a game to acknowledge the death of a murderer. Period.

True, but the head coach and GM did (at least according to reports) watch said murderer off himself. Killer or not, that's not an easy thing to get over in a day before a football game.

[Cujo]

The Chiefs have told the NFL they are okay with playing tomorrow's game vs. the Panthers at Arrowhead. So YES, the game WILL be played.

Remember when Brett Favre played the day after his father died? If #4 can suit up and ball like a man one day after that, so can the Chiefs. Play ball.