NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Cosmic]

Ralph Wilson Stadium on a clear fall day is beautiful. Downtown Buffalo needs many things; a stadium that's empty for ~350 days a year isn't one of them. Save what you have.

One of the "luxuries" of having less than half the number of people in your city as you used to is that you have room to do stuff. The two cheaper downtown sites aren't replacing anything remotely important. The one directly next to the Sabres' arena is mostly going on top of surface parking, and one of the common complaints among Buffalo urbanists is that downtown has too much surface parking. I like that site because it's in a good position to latch onto what's already happening down there without destroying much or slicing downtown into pieces. You can use the downtown parking infrastructure and the light rail (considering it's just six miles in one straight line, making it useful is notable). Directly to the west of that site is a lot of good stuff going on. The site itself is mostly a lot of nothing going on. Directly east is a casino (if that's your thing) and then industrial-type buildings and neighborhoods.

I think the current site has a lot going for it; it has a megahighway a mile or two away either east or west of the stadium. If I could magically plop a stadium anywhere, I'd want to steal a view somewhere along a ridge near the current site. This view behind one of the end zones of a new stadium would be pretty darn cool (that's the current stadium and practice facility in the mid-ground). This is taken from the top of a sledding hill at a county park:

It is great that they're thinking this far ahead. I think it's fair to say that if not for the lease and other agreements in the sale, the Bills would be on the short list for relocation.

1. So they're talking dome? That's a shame. Sure they'd get more use out of it (maybe - not sure if there are enough major conventions that take place in Buffalo, and it's not like they're getting Final Four or Super Bowl.)

3. If they do a dome, and it's retractable, I really hope it's not like the new Atlanta one, or the Colts one, where it's not so much "retractable" as it is just a hole in the roof. Even when open, you can't really call those things "open air" stadiums. The closest to doing it the right way is probably Houston, and even that probably isn't as "open" as it should be.

I think a dome is probably likely. The local people are spending mom and dad's (NYS's) money, but a retractable roof stadium seems a little too out there even for that scenario. The convention center is a brutalist time capsule, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a new convention center wrapped into all of this with indoor stadium space as a selling point. We wouldn't get the Final Four, but a Sabres-Leafs game once a year or once every couple years? I bet it'd sell. I wonder if the NHL could stop them?

[STL FANATIC]

One of the "luxuries" of having less than half the number of people in your city as you used to is that you have room to do stuff. The two cheaper downtown sites aren't replacing anything remotely important.

That's a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back, though. The buildings that are there probably are capable of finding new life.

But I have no idea whether Buffalo is interested in that sort of outcome.

[Gothamite]

I will again say that the pooch was screwed with the original lease and the original building. Any "better" way of handling this from St. Louis' end is pure fantasy.

That lease was the only reason you had a team in the first place. Without it, you'd still be waiting.

And if St. Louis had the foresight Buffalo is now exhibiting, you could have gotten out from under that bad lease early. Contrast that with the bizarre complacency and lack of urgency we're seeing in Missouri.

[Cosmic]

One of the "luxuries" of having less than half the number of people in your city as you used to is that you have room to do stuff. The two cheaper downtown sites aren't replacing anything remotely important.

That's a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back, though. The buildings that are there probably are capable of finding new life.

But I have no idea whether Buffalo is interested in that sort of outcome.

... but most of the "best" site is surface parking and already owned by the Bills' owners.

[colortv]

Chargers Updates:

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2015/jan/16/chargers-not-board-mayors-stadium-plan/

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-diego-los-angeles-chargers-20150114-story.html

[Gothamite]

Meanwhile, in LA, the "Bring Back the Los Angeles Rams" guys held a rally at the Coliseum.

Not bad. Couple of these in Missouri, maybe in front of the proposed site, would work wonders.

[rams80]

One of the "luxuries" of having less than half the number of people in your city as you used to is that you have room to do stuff. The two cheaper downtown sites aren't replacing anything remotely important.

That's a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back, though. The buildings that are there probably are capable of finding new life.

But I have no idea whether Buffalo is interested in that sort of outcome.

Being Buffalo is also a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back.

[Mac the Knife]

But even he isn't willing to say the bylaws are as ironclad as Peacock seems to want them to be.

"I don't agree with Jerry on that point," Rooney said. "The majority view is that there's a process the teams are going to have to go through, and I think everybody understands that in terms of the teams that may be interested, I expect that the process will be observed, and hopefully it will be an orderly process."

He thinks. He expects. Hopefully. Process. Note the carefully measures noncommittal statement. He won't say that Jones is conclusively wrong.

Peacock, meanwhile, insists:

"The NFL bylaws are very clear," Peacock said. "I believe in those bylaws, and I have confidence that we're an NFL city."

And yet Rooney doesn't sound so sure:

"I think next year is a time frame that I would hope that we at least go through a site-selection process and at that point are in a position where we have a site where we'd all feel comfortable putting a stadium," he said. "Then we'd be ready to go through a relocation process where we all understand that there's a first-class NFL stadium for a team to move to."

Rooney isn't quoted as saying anything about the bylaws. He's just describing the process Kroneke will have to go through, not the roadblocks the NFL or its bylaws will put in the Rams' way.

Again, it seems that St. Louis is blithely trusting the bylaws to prevent a relocation. Would explain their continued lack of urgency.

Yeah, the NFL has written bylaws and written relocation guidelines, but they aren't ironclad. If anyone in St. Louis is counting on those texts to stave off a move, they're delusional.

It is great that they're thinking this far ahead. I think it's fair to say that if not for the lease and other agreements in the sale, the Bills would be on the short list for relocation relocating to Los Angeles for 2015.

FTFY. Buffalonians (?) have Ralph Wilson to thank for whatever time the franchise has in Buffalo. Had it not been for his insistence that the team stay there, imposed even after his death via his will, we'd have already seen the moving fans in Orchard Park.

One of the "luxuries" of having less than half the number of people in your city as you used to is that you have room to do stuff. The two cheaper downtown sites aren't replacing anything remotely important.

That's a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back, though. The buildings that are there probably are capable of finding new life.

But I have no idea whether Buffalo is interested in that sort of outcome.

Being Buffalo is also a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back.

POTD.

[Cosmic]

One of the "luxuries" of having less than half the number of people in your city as you used to is that you have room to do stuff. The two cheaper downtown sites aren't replacing anything remotely important.

That's a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back, though. The buildings that are there probably are capable of finding new life.

But I have no idea whether Buffalo is interested in that sort of outcome.

Being Buffalo is also a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back.

POTD.

Coming from a city currently best known for race riots? Nah.

[STL FANATIC]

One of the "luxuries" of having less than half the number of people in your city as you used to is that you have room to do stuff. The two cheaper downtown sites aren't replacing anything remotely important.

That's a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back, though. The buildings that are there probably are capable of finding new life.

But I have no idea whether Buffalo is interested in that sort of outcome.

Being Buffalo is also a great way to ensure you never get any of those people back.

POTD.

Coming from a city currently best known for race riots? Nah.

Neither of those 2 are from St. Louis.

[The_Admiral]

What do they riot about in Raleigh? that McMansions aren't being built quickly enough?

[Mac the Knife]

What do they riot about in Raleigh? that McMansions aren't being built quickly enough?

We do have the occasional protest about our Starbucks latte's being insufficiently foamy.

[The_Admiral]

I ASKED FOR GREEK YOGURT, DAMMIT. #greeklivesmatter

[Cosmic]

I took a gamble that rams80 was from St. Louis. It was worth a shot. People outside of St. Louis like the Rams?

[The_Admiral]

He's from Peoria, which leans at least 60-40 St. Louis in its sports allegiances.

There seems to be a pretty big contingent of out-of-town Rams fans between Los Angeles torch-carriers and scattered people who liked the GSOT, but they're more of a sleeping giant and don't seem terribly interested in road-tripping. They certainly don't have the rest of Missouri and Illinois the way the Cardinals do.

[Cosmic]

Oh well then, Peoria... can't compete with that. Yeah, Buffalo is awful. Every day I consider just leaving the car running in the garage.

[STL FANATIC]

Yeah, aside from the Rams general terribleness to cement a fan base through actual winning, one of their biggest flaws has been their marketing.

Only since Kroenke took over (oddly enough) have they begun to actually market themselves outside of the immediate St. Louis region. At least in St. Louis they had a LITTLE bit of winning to sell at one point. That was when they needed to be marketing themselves beyond the reaches of STL, but they didn't really do it.

They were always up against the 8-ball in that regard mind you. You've got people in the area who are Chiefs or Bears fans going back generations. You've got some Packers fans thrown in their too because Packers. And even some that stuck with the Cardinals, although I suppose those are more of the ones within the immediate area.

So anyways, they pretty much needed to make an effort to reach those people AND have something to sell to those people. And they didn't really do either one, at least not at the same time.

Some, like Rams80, found their way to being a Rams fan anyways (I'm sure the choice haunts him). And yeah, there's the carryover of the LA Rams fans. But no, there aren't a ton of southern Illinois Rams fans or rural Missouri Rams fans. It's not that there aren't any, but they don't have the reach of the Cardinals at all or probably even the Blues to some degree.

[2001mark]

NFL cares about St. Louis, I don't think ppl should overlook how important the city would be as a bargaining chip against failing franchises.

Just as Los Angeles (& Toronto, London, Mexico City, etc) have been for years & years now- valid vacancies help keep franchises in check I think.

Shape up or move to X

Just like the NHL & Kansas City/Seattle/Quebec City/Las Vegas.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, aside from the Rams general terribleness to cement a fan base through actual winning, one of their biggest flaws has been their marketing.

Only since Kroenke took over (oddly enough) have they begun to actually market themselves outside of the immediate St. Louis region. At least in St. Louis they had a LITTLE bit of winning to sell at one point. That was when they needed to be marketing themselves beyond the reaches of STL, but they didn't really do it.

They were always up against the 8-ball in that regard mind you. You've got people in the area who are Chiefs or Bears fans going back generations. You've got some Packers fans thrown in their too because Packers. And even some that stuck with the Cardinals, although I suppose those are more of the ones within the immediate area.

So anyways, they pretty much needed to make an effort to reach those people AND have something to sell to those people. And they didn't really do either one, at least not at the same time.

Some, like Rams80, found their way to being a Rams fan anyways (I'm sure the choice haunts him). And yeah, there's the carryover of the LA Rams fans. But no, there aren't a ton of southern Illinois Rams fans or rural Missouri Rams fans. It's not that there aren't any, but they don't have the reach of the Cardinals at all or probably even the Blues to some degree.

I don't think anyone's really saying it's a failed market. Except maybe you, when you make excuses or look to assign blame.

[STL FANATIC]

I was just discussing the Rams lack of regional appeal, as it came up. Wasn't directly related to any conversation about the success/failure of St. Louis as an NFL market.

Think you put more into that post than there was. (Though, I certainly understand why.)