NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Gothamite]

I just don't think you really need to be making excuses. Especially since, as you noted, things have been on the upswing.

If there's a problem with the market, it's mostly that they failed to hold the politicians' feet to the fire, and let their chance to keep the Rams slip away.

[STL FANATIC]

Someone said "there are Rams fans outside of St. Louis?" I discussed that. Unless you're referring to something days old, I'm not sure what you're talking about with excuses. There was nothing I was concerned with excusing.

[STL FANATIC]

The Chargers still refuse to make threats, but they may be trending towards a breaking point after the San Diego Mayor's latest speech.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan/21/chargers-stadium-nick-canepa/

[Gothamite]

Interesting.

That would leave the Raiders standing alone when the music stops.

[DustDevil61]

The Chargers still refuse to make threats, but they may be trending towards a breaking point after the San Diego Mayor's latest speech.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan/21/chargers-stadium-nick-canepa/

Interesting.

That would leave the Raiders standing alone when the music stops.

Well, there is always San Antonio, and maybe St. Louis in a couple years.

[Gothamite]

Maybe. And only if they come in big with public money.

[DustDevil61]

Maybe. And only if they come in big with public money.

True. And if St. Louis finds itself without said public money, the San Antonio Raiders becomes a very real possibility IMO.

[STL FANATIC]

It'll be interesting to see the path the Chargers take if they do seek to move.

One option would be to join the Rams in Kroenke's inglewood palace. Although it's not clear to me if Spanos would want to share the LA market with Kroenke's Rams, let alone play in Kroenke's building.

So the other option, would be to partner with Farmer's Field. And if that happens, then it in-turn becomes interesting to see what Kroenke does with the Rams.

I suspect that the NFL will give the Chargers the priority on the LA market if both teams apply to move. Now, that doesn't mean they wouldn't approve both teams to move, but the curiosity is whether both teams can co-exist under whatever stadium plan moves forward. Would Kroenke still want to move to LA if he had to play in Farmers Field? Or would he build his Inglewood stadium, and LA would have not only two teams, but two stadiums?

The Chargers could throw a real wrench in the Rams to LA plan. But I don't know if that means stopping the Rams from moving or just changing the way in which they move.

[STL FANATIC]

Maybe. And only if they come in big with public money.

True. And if St. Louis finds itself without said public money, the San Antonio Raiders becomes a very real possibility IMO.

I haven't paid much attention because I've mostly viewed it as a leverage ploy, but is there public money on the table in San Antonio? Because they'd need it also. The Alamodome isn't a long-term option. Unless the Raiders are just so desperate they're okay playing there. And in that case, I would think the Edward Jones Dome would be similarly considered.

I suspect the league would discourage such a move, but as we've discussed, the Raiders could just try to do it anyways. The league might also be okay with it if the situation reaches a head and there is just absolutely no hope whatsoever in Oakland.

[rams80]

Personally I think that moving the Raiders to San Antonio could do a lot for the league regardless of the stadium situation. If the NFL wants to make further inroads into the Mexican market, well, I've noticed that the Raiders seem to have quite a lot of support among the America's Hispanics.

[STL FANATIC]

Is that something you've noticed in hispanic markets outside of California? Wouldn't shock me at all if you're right, though.

[BBTV]

I just can't see San Antonio being a viable solution. I'm starting to believe that while there are not 31 NFL-ready markets (30 if the Chargers join the Rams after next season), there are worse ones than St. Louis, and (if they start actually doing things besides showing off renderings on land that they don't have a plan to acquire) the St. Louis Raiders that I joked about a few pages back actually isn't the worst idea ever.

Not as Good an idea as St. Louis Jaguars, but better than no ST. Louis.

[rams80]

Is that something you've noticed in hispanic markets outside of California? Wouldn't shock me at all if you're right, though.

Yes.

[illwauk]

Is that something you've noticed in hispanic markets outside of California? Wouldn't shock me at all if you're right, though.

Lots of Hispanics are fans of the Raiders or Cowboys, regardless of where they're from or live. Those were the first teams to produce Spanish language broadcasts of their teams' games, and did so long before it became standard.

[Gothamite]

It'll be interesting to see the path the Chargers take if they do seek to move.

One option would be to join the Rams in Kroenke's inglewood palace. Although it's not clear to me if Spanos would want to share the LA market with Kroenke's Rams, let alone play in Kroenke's building.

So the other option, would be to partner with Farmer's Field. And if that happens, then it in-turn becomes interesting to see what Kroenke does with the Rams.

I suspect that the NFL will give the Chargers the priority on the LA market if both teams apply to move. Now, that doesn't mean they wouldn't approve both teams to move, but the curiosity is whether both teams can co-exist under whatever stadium plan moves forward. Would Kroenke still want to move to LA if he had to play in Farmers Field? Or would he build his Inglewood stadium, and LA would have not only two teams, but two stadiums?

The Chargers could throw a real wrench in the Rams to LA plan. But I don't know if that means stopping the Rams from moving or just changing the way in which they move.

The only way the Chargers factor into the Rams' move at all is if they try to block the vote. Well, the owners blocked Georgia's move to St. Louis too, and she just had to pony up a little money to win votes for the second call. Given how much money the Los Angeles Rams will already be putting in the shared kitty, I don't see that as too big a stumbling block for Stan.

And I think Stan has made his plan crystal clear; he's building his own stadium. Full stop. The only real question is whether the second team, which looks like the Chargers, will be his tenant or not.

Then the question seems to me to be whether it's better to sell a percentage to AEG and own less of the team but own a piece of the stadium development, or keep the entire ownership stake but remain a renter in the stadium.

Something Spanos and Davis will have to consider, because they won't be able to have both, as Kroneke will.

[STL FANATIC]

So you think Kroenke's plan to build the stadium in Inglewood will be followed through on even if Farmers Field is confirmed to be built and occupied by another team (presumably the Chargers)?

I won't say that won't happen, but I put those odds at somewhere less than 50/50. Still entirely possible, though.

[Gothamite]

Yes, I do.

Partly because other parts of the Inglewood project is already under constriction. The stadium will be easy enough to fold into the ongoing work, and I suspect it'll be under construction before the relocation press conference is held.

And partly because why wouldn't Stan go ahead with it? Even if Spanos or Davis somehow signs a deal with AEG before Kronke can announce his move (doubtful, given the compressed timeframe all the teams will be working under), I don't see why he'll let that derail his massive development project.

[STL FANATIC]

It's a fair point. I don't know what will happen. But just to suggest some possibilities...

Another team in LA is competition for Stan's Rams. That's obviously not a big deal, as I think everyone assumes there's probably at least a 50% chance that if one team goes a second goes. However, if Stan has the only stadium, the competition also becomes a money-maker because they're paying him rent. If it's a second team in a second stadium, then it's definitely just competing.

The market is surely big enough, so I don't mean they can't survive, but it's just probably not what he's most expecting.

And I don't know this for sure, but my guess is that the Chargers in downtown LA next to the Staples Center is going to be a bigger draw than the Rams in Inglewood. And I use draw to mean more than just game day attendance. I know the Dodgers aren't in downtown, and I know Inglewood and Anaheim aren't the same thing, but it makes me wonder if this would create a Dodgers to Angels scenario.

Additionally, I don't think the loss of the stadium massively derails the development. There's already a plan for that area. My understanding is it's pretty prime land for development anyways. And Stan hasn't made his money developing stadiums, he's made his money developing land like that. He wants the stadium, but I think he'd do pretty well for himself there without it.

There's also the matter of Kroenke's stadium getting the bit of public approval it needs. I suspect that will happen, but it's not a guarantee.

Still, your points are good. They could wind up with two stadiums. I'm skeptical of that, but it's possible.

Also, here's another thing to consider as a possibility. What if St. Louis does get it's funding and everything together in the next 6 months or so (meeting the NFL expectations), and Kroenke still won't play ball with them. Kroenke could be forced to go rogue or to be delayed. If he's not ready to go rogue, and the NFL says there's a deal to be made in St. Louis, you can't move yet, that opens up a window for the Chargers to not just tie him, but beat him to LA.

Then does he go rogue and bolt, enter LA as the second team a year behind the Chargers, or play ball in St. Louis?

It's a strange thing. I can't remember the last time in the major 4 leagues that we've seen an owner so set on leaving without making much effort in their current spot. We've seen potential ownership groups go this route (Predators come to mind), but I can't recall the last one to just bolt as soon as they had a chance (which seems to be what he'll do). I don't know much about the Raiders history, but is this what Al Davis did with the initial move to LA?

[HedleyLamarr]

Stadium location for NFL teams really don't matter when they have one weekend game every two weeks.

And I'm sure the NFL would have their schedule makers do whatever they can to make sure the two Los Angeles teams alternate home dates and prevent both from playing home games on the same day, should there be two NFL venues in town.

[STL FANATIC]

Location doesn't matter as it concerns attendance, but I'd argue it does matter as it concerns who identifies with the team.

Even more than just the idea of general fans that live nearer one or the other is the idea of who the glitzy LA scene identifies with. And that's more likely to be the team downtown, in my opinion.

Identifying with the glitzy, celebrity scene isn't nothing. The Lakers and Clippers play in the same building, but the Lakers (more so than the Clippers, although there's been a recent shift to some degree) have that celebrity scene. It makes them the popular team in the city and a popular team nationwide. As a result, they're valued at $1 billion more than the Clippers ($2.6b to $1.6b).

Doesn't mean any of this will stop Kroenke, but I think these are reasonable things to think about.