Tygers09

A Football League Of Their Own

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The U.S. has 26 metropolitan cities that have either loss a professional football franchise or has been mention for expansion into the NFL. The demise of the WFL of the 60s & the 70s, the USFL, the XFL, the UFL, and most recently the AAF, have enough teams to make another football league.

 

The cities listed have over a 600k and well over a million in their MSA (Metropolitan Statisical Area):

Albuquerque, NM

Baton Rouge, LA

Birmingham, AL

Boise, ID

Columbus, OH

El Paso, TX

Grand Rapids, MI

Hampton Roads, VA (Norfolk, VA Beach, Newport News)

Hartford, CT

Honolulu, HI

Louisville, KY

Memphis, TN

Milwaukee, WI

Oklahoma City, OK

Omaha, NE

Orlando, FL

Portland, OR

Raleigh-Durham, NC

Sacramento, CA

Salt Lake City, UT

San Antonio, TX

San Diego, CA

St.Louis, MO

Tuscon, AZ

Winston- Salem, NC

 

One has to ask why these cities keep getting overlooked? It is because they don't have a stadium? They have the population, are they close proximity to a city that already has an NFL franchise?  Is there a owner of a company in these cities that has an interests in owning a football team? All these questions have to be or already been asked, yet they cities are still left out of having their time to shine or are capable of having acquiring a football franchise. And now the new XFL again, has cities that already have a NFL franchise! It's a damn shame that these cities don't, maybe the second go around of the XFL can change all this!

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Tygers09 said:

The U.S. has 26 metropolitan cities that have either loss a professional football franchise or has been mention for expansion into the NFL. The demise of the WFL of the 60s & the 70s, the USFL, the XFL, the UFL, and most recently the AAF, have enough teams to make another football league.

 

The cities listed have over a 600k and well over a million in their MSA (Metropolitan Statisical Area):

Albuquerque, NM

Baton Rouge, LA

Birmingham, AL

Boise, ID

Columbus, OH

El Paso, TX

Grand Rapids, MI

Hampton Roads, VA (Norfolk, VA Beach, Newport News)

Hartford, CT

Honolulu, HI

Louisville, KY

Memphis, TN

Milwaukee, WI

Oklahoma City, OK

Omaha, NE

Orlando, FL

Portland, OR

Raleigh-Durham, NC

Sacramento, CA

Salt Lake City, UT

San Antonio, TX

San Diego, CA

St.Louis, MO

Tuscon, AZ

Winston- Salem, NC

 

One has to ask why these cities keep getting overlooked? It is because they don't have a stadium? They have the population, are they close proximity to a city that already has an NFL franchise?  Is there a owner of a company in these cities that has an interests in owning a football team? All these questions have to be or already been asked, yet they cities are still left out of having their time to shine or are capable of having acquiring a football franchise. And now the new XFL again, has cities that already have a NFL franchise! It's a damn shame that these cities don't, maybe the second go around of the XFL can change all this!

 

 

 

Memphis, Birmingham, Orlando and San Antonio are usually the default cities non NFL leagues go to as the AAF went to those 4 cities.  Sacramento is in the same category.  Milwaukee has no football stadium.  Portland has one, but it's in suburban Hillsboro because Providence Park, home of the MLS Timbers is not a football stadium anymore.  Louisville has one, but I doubt that the University of Louisville will allow a pro team to play there.  Salt Lake City was in the AAF.  Honolulu has a terrible stadium and is too far away from the mainland.  The Omaha Nighthawks of the UFL did have games at TD Ameritrade Park, but that is largely a baseball stadium.

 

St. Louis is in the XFL.  San Diego was in the AAF and will probably be in the XFL if it expands.  Tucson may not get the support as one would think.  Not sure if the University of New Mexico will allow a pro football team in their stadium.  Same for Boise State, NC State or Wake Forest.  Not sure about Hartford.  Oklahoma City has no suitable venue and I doubt OU would allow them to play in Norman. 

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That's another question, most of these cities have colleges that have stadiums, and would those colleges allow their stadiums to be used?

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12 minutes ago, Tygers09 said:

That's another question, most of these cities have colleges that have stadiums, and would those colleges allow their stadiums to be used?

 

Doubtful.

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2 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

Milwaukee has no football stadium.  Portland has one, but it's in suburban Hillsboro because Providence Park, home of the MLS Timbers is not a football stadium anymore.


Miller Park has hosted soccer before.  I was also considered for a team in the UFL before it folded. 

I will say, I think the fact that the USFL managed to bypass Milwaukee is not talked about enough.  Phily and Pittsburgh both managed to share their facility with the local baseball team, and Phily was arguably the most successful team the league ever had. 

Granted, the "business community" in Southeast Wisconsin has a (well deserved, IMO) reputation as cheap, stodgy, and unambitious.  Even by corporate standards.  I'm sure that has a lot to do with why not only the USFL, but also the NASL and WHA managed to avoid the area.

 

2 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

Portland has one, but it's in suburban Hillsboro because Providence Park, home of the MLS Timbers is not a football stadium anymore.


I think you may have it mixed up.  Hillsboro has a baseball park that was built when PGE Park (as it was known at the time) was retrofitted for soccer and could no longer host baseball.  But as far as I know, the Portland State football team still plays there.

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39 minutes ago, NicDB said:


I think you may have it mixed up.  Hillsboro has a baseball park that was built when PGE Park (as it was known at the time) was retrofitted for soccer and could no longer host baseball.  But as far as I know, the Portland State football team still plays there.

 

Portland State played their entire 2019 football season in Hillsboro:

 

https://goviks.com/sports/football/schedule

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5 minutes ago, NicDB said:

^Wow... what a fustercluck of a situation.

 

The Timbers have also moved their USL Championship Timbers II team to Hillsboro as well. 

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Orlando has the Citrus Bowl, and the NFL’s shown they’re okay with that because of the Pro Bowl and some preseason games being played here. Really, the only reason we don’t have a team is that the other 3 big cities in the state got them first.

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Ever city you mentioned has atleast 1 of 3 issues. City is near another NFL team, city is near another big college football team that has proven it can’t succeed from other leagues, or city does not have the infrastructure for a team.

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How far away from an NFL city do you have to be? So Honolulu and Anchorage, who, geography are out in the middle of nowhere, are the only exceptions in order to have a football team? How much infrastucture does a city have to have? Oh that's right, you have to have a megamillion population, a very lucrative, high end sports stadium ( not to mention, stick the public with the bill), overcharge the (explitive) out of the people who go to the games for concessions.  Geez, capitalism /corporationism at its best! 

 

I was looking at cities that generally dont have any of the the four major sports teams, and plus figured a spring football season, it would ridicously stupid to have one in the fall; where it wouldn't interfere with the college or pro football season, ; hello does USFL come to mind? Thats also why the US expansion into the CFL wasnt successful, if you look at the metropolitan of most of those cities, they are over 1 million+.

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On 12/8/2019 at 2:20 PM, Tygers09 said:

That's another question, most of these cities have colleges that have stadiums, and would those colleges allow their stadiums to be used?

If they get paid in full upfront., in CA$H.

 

The AAF owes Arizona State, UCF, and the University of Utah thousands, if not millions. 

 

3 hours ago, Tygers09 said:

How far away from an NFL city do you have to be? So Honolulu and Anchorage, who, geography are out in the middle of nowhere, are the only exceptions in order to have a football team? How much infrastucture does a city have to have? Oh that's right, you have to have a megamillion population, a very lucrative, high end sports stadium ( not to mention, stick the public with the bill), overcharge the (explitive) out of the people who go to the games for concessions.  Geez, capitalism /corporationism at its best! 

 

I was looking at cities that generally dont have any of the the four major sports teams, and plus figured a spring football season, it would ridicously stupid to have one in the fall; where it wouldn't interfere with the college or pro football season, ; hello does USFL come to mind? Thats also why the US expansion into the CFL wasnt successful, if you look at the metropolitan of most of those cities, they are over 1 million+.

AAF did not draw fans, regardless of what a few Stans here say.  XFL2020 is still questionable to draw people to watch games.  Basically each alt-football attempt since the AFL/NFL merger has seen cost of operation go up dramatically and attendance go down equally. 

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On 12/13/2019 at 11:35 PM, dfwabel said:

AAF did not draw fans, regardless of what a few Stans here say. 

 

No one has claimed that the AAF had good attendance. It certainly did not come close to filling stadiums, even though its televised presentation was exemplary and its ratings were above expectations.

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44 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

No one has claimed that the AAF had good attendance. It certainly did not come close to filling stadiums, even though its televised presentation was exemplary and its ratings were above expectations.

Well, you didn't want to answer the OP's question about universities willing to rent their facilities to leagues like the AAF anymore.

 

Vince has the cash to pay basically upfront.  Investors X/Y/Z and 1/2/3 typically do not.  Nice to see you are still a Stan for them.

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26 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

Well, you didn't want to answer the OP's question about universities willing to rent their facilities to leagues like the AAF anymore.

 

By the time I read the question, you had already answered it by saying that a league would have to pay a university cash upfront, in light of the bills left unpaid by the AAF.

 

 

27 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

Nice to see you are still a Stan for them.

 

I have an appropriately hearty admiration for what the AAF did right, namely, an impressive overall level of play, interesting individual storylines, and outstanding television productions. I as a viewer was entertained.

 

Yet every honest observer fully acknowledges what that league did wrong: launching without sufficient capitalisation; misleading players and coaches with promises of three-year deals; leaving creditors unpaid. These are matters of fact which are disputed by no one, regardless of how much they enjoyed watching the AAF's games.

 

This forum is best when contributors stick to arguing a question on its merits, and avoid discrediting themselves by means of silly and dishonest mischaracterisation of other contributors.

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You post as an Alt-football Stan, I get it but realize the economic realities is being such a Stan and that folks don't spend money on spare football.

 

@Sec19Row53 can tell you all of his dealings.

Edited by dfwabel

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On 12/8/2019 at 10:40 AM, Tygers09 said:

The cities listed have over a 600k and well over a million in their MSA (Metropolitan Statisical Area)


Municipalities on your list with populations over 600,000
San Antonio, TX - 1,532,233
San Diego, CA - 1,425,976
Columbus, OH - 892,533
El Paso, TX - 682,669
Portland, OR - 653,115
Memphis, TN - 650,618
Oklahoma City, OK - 649,021
Louisville, KY - 620,118

Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs) on your list with populations over 1 million
San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA - 3,343,364
St. Louis, MO-IL MSA - 2,805,465
Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL MSA - 2,572,692
San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX MSA - 2,518,036
Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA MSA - 2,478,810
Sacramento-Roseville-Folsom, CA MSA - 2,345,210
Columbus, OH MSA - 2,106,541
Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA - 1,725,733
Milwaukee-Waukesha, WI MSA - 1,576,113
Oklahoma City, OK MSA - 1,396,445
Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA - 1,362,540
Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA - 1,350,620
Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN MSA - 1,297,310
Salt Lake City, UT MSA - 1,222,540
Hartford-East Hartford-Middletown, CT MSA - 1,206,300
Birmingham-Hoover, AL MSA - 1,151,801
Grand Rapids-Kentwood, MI MSA - 1,069,405
Tucson, AZ MSA - 1,039,073

Markets on your list with neither municipal populations over 600,000, nor MSA populations over 1 million
Albuquerque, NM - 560,218 / Albuquerque, NM MSA - 915,927
Baton Rouge, LA - 221,559 / Baton Rouge, LA MSA - 831,310
Boise, ID - 228,790 / Boise City, ID MSA - 730,426
Honolulu, HI - 347,397 / Urban Honolulu, HI MSA - 980,080
Omaha, NE - 468,262 / Omaha-Council Bluffs, NE-IA MSA - 942,198
Winston-Salem, NC - 246,328 / Winston-Salem, NC MSA - 671,456 

(All population statistics drawn from the U.S. Census Bureau's 2018 population estimates.)






  

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Just because the cities mentioned don't have football teams doesn't make them inferior markets to the cities that do have NFL teams due to the other major league sports.  In fact quite a few of them have teams in MLB, NBA, NHL and/or MLS.  Columbus, Raleigh and St. Louis are in the NHL.  Portland, Orlando, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee, Oklahoma City, Memphis and San Antonio are NBA markets.   Milwaukee, San Diego and St. Louis are MLB.  Columbus, St. Louis, Portland, Orlando, Sacramento and Salt Lake City (as well as Austin, Texas) are already in MLS or have been announced to be in MLS. 

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On 12/16/2019 at 12:38 AM, dfwabel said:

You post as an Alt-football Stan, I get it but realize the economic realities is being such a Stan and that folks don't spend money on spare football.

 

@Sec19Row53 can tell you all of his dealings.

4 tickets at $142/game * 8 games for the regular season at Lambeau.  I'm on the hook for 1 round of playoff tickets at the same price if they are Round 1, and at (I think) $179 per ticket if we get a bye.

 

This doesn't count parking, game day travel, tailgating, anything else.

 

It's slightly disingenuous in that I only pay for 6 games plus one pre-season game (at a discounted price), but that give a decent feel for the overall money forked out. 

 

If another sports team made its way here, this money is already accounted for and can't get spent elsewhere. It's why I saw 2 Brewer games last year - funds only go so far and I chose to spend money elsewhere.

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28 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

4 tickets at $142/game * 8 games for the regular season at Lambeau.  I'm on the hook for 1 round of playoff tickets at the same price if they are Round 1, and at (I think) $179 per ticket if we get a bye.

 

This doesn't count parking, game day travel, tailgating, anything else.

 

It's slightly disingenuous in that I only pay for 6 games plus one pre-season game (at a discounted price), but that give a decent feel for the overall money forked out. 

 

If another sports team made its way here, this money is already accounted for and can't get spent elsewhere. It's why I saw 2 Brewer games last year - funds only go so far and I chose to spend money elsewhere.

I did mean your Lambeau costs, I was referring to your minor league/semi-pro football experiences regarding the business side since it seems that most alt-football attempts dissolve into semi-pro.

Edited by dfwabel

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