Question about NFL...

[rockchalk]

7. Do you have to wear a helmet? if you do, do they fine you for taking it off?

see above.Tommy McDonald was the last NFL'er to play without a helmet.He last played in the late 1960's.

Actually, I think McDonald was the last position player to play without a face mask. Helmets have been required since the mid-to-late '40's.

[slapshot]

Actually, that reminds me....I have a question too. I don't remember ever seeing this happen before, but I've seen it twice this year and wonder if the rule changed.

Twice this season, I've seen the kick returner step out of bounds prior to catching the kickoff, although the ball itself was not yet out of bounds. Each time, the kicking team was flagged the same as if the ball had gone out untouched, and the recieving team was awarded possession at the 40.

Now, I understand the point that, since the reciever is out of bounds, the ball is as well. But since the reciever in each instance deliberately caused it to be out of bounds, is it really fair that the penalty still be called on the kicking team?

Nick pretty much answered this one, but I think I can expand on it a bit.

If a kickoff goes out of bounds, the kicking team gets a penalty for Illegal Procedure. The receiving team (at least in the NCAA on down) gets 3 options:

1. Take the ball where it went out of bounds

2. Take the ball 30 yards from the spot of the kickoff...in this case, the receiving team's 35 yard line.

3. Re-kick 5 yards further back, at the kicking team's 30.

If a kickoff returner is situated close to the sideline as he is about to receive a free kick (kick-off or punt after a safety), he would be smart to step out-of-bounds, and then touch the ball...the kickoff is now considered out of bounds, Illegal Procedure.

Now, being a Patriots fan, I am also familiar with this rule...if a player steps out of bounds or touches the out-of-bounds line while touching the ball, the ball is considered out of bounds.

This play happened a few years ago. David Patten had caught a pass and landed with two feet in bounds. He was immediately hit hard, and the ball popped loose. Patten was actually knocked unconscious by the hit. He fell to the turf, with his head touching the sideline. The ball was live, but not in anyone's possession. As it bounced around, it touched Patten. Even though Patten lay motionless in bounds, since his head had touched the sideline, he was considered out-of-bounds. And since the live ball touched him, the ball was considered out-of-bounds. Since the fumble was now dead out-of-bounds, possession returned to the team that last legally was in possession of it...the Patriots.

[WJMorris3]

RobbMan, Gale Sayers doesn't hold the record for most rushing touchdowns in a game. His best performance was four rushing touchdowns.

That said, six is the right number. Ernie Nevers, another former Chicago player, did it in November of 1929. He also kicked four extra points in that game; his total of 40 points is also an NFL record.

[robbman21]

RobbMan, Gale Sayers doesn't hold the record for most rushing touchdowns in a game. His best performance was four rushing touchdowns.

That said, six is the right number. Ernie Nevers, another former Chicago player, did it in November of 1929. He also kicked four extra points in that game; his total of 40 points is also an NFL record.

Ahhh dang it!!I KNEW that!!I really did know that one,I just got caught-up in the fact of Sayers scoring his 6 in one game and associating that with the rushing TD record.Man I blew that one

[rmered]

Ben Graham has had a relationship with the Giants for some years, and would only leave Geelong to play for them if they were interested.

If they don't offer him a contract, then he'll sign for 2 more years at Geelong, then test the waters again.

For the North Americans, Ben Graham is a longer kick of an AFL ball than Darren Bennett.

Bennett could kick about 60 metres with our ball, and about 80 yards with an NFL ball.

Graham would be about another 5-10 metres longer again, and therefore should be able to kick an NFL ball about the length of the field.

Of course, there's more to it such as hang time, but apparently there's a team interested already. And he trialled with the teams Aussie mentioned.

Nathan Chapman, who was the Packers backup punter through preseason also played AFL though he wasn't very good.

[Alphabet Man]

Graham is trying to get a deal were he can play for NY Jets for the NFL season then return to play with Geelong during winter (your summer) then in September/October head back to the States.......

[rmered]

Graham is trying to get a deal were he can play for NY Jets for the NFL season then return to play with Geelong during winter (your summer) then in September/October head back to the States.......

Yeah, and I'm hoping to win lottery three weeks in a row.

That won't happen.

He'll either play for one or the other.

Sounds like it'll be the Jets.

[Alphabet Man]

Graham is trying to get a deal were he can play for NY Jets for the NFL season then return to play with Geelong during winter (your summer) then in September/October head back to the States.......

Yeah, and I'm hoping to win lottery three weeks in a row.

That won't happen.

He'll either play for one or the other.

Sounds like it'll be the Jets.

buy a ticket and it might happen (yeah, the day that you are the only one in the state that enters, is the day you win, the ammount you paid for the tix)

[Nick 1733]

Actually, that reminds me....I have a question too. I don't remember ever seeing this happen before, but I've seen it twice this year and wonder if the rule changed.

Twice this season, I've seen the kick returner step out of bounds prior to catching the kickoff, although the ball itself was not yet out of bounds. Each time, the kicking team was flagged the same as if the ball had gone out untouched, and the recieving team was awarded possession at the 40.

Now, I understand the point that, since the reciever is out of bounds, the ball is as well. But since the reciever in each instance deliberately caused it to be out of bounds, is it really fair that the penalty still be called on the kicking team?

Nick pretty much answered this one, but I think I can expand on it a bit.

If a kickoff goes out of bounds, the kicking team gets a penalty for Illegal Procedure. The receiving team (at least in the NCAA on down) gets 3 options:

1. Take the ball where it went out of bounds

2. Take the ball 30 yards from the spot of the kickoff...in this case, the receiving team's 35 yard line.

3. Re-kick 5 yards further back, at the kicking team's 30.

If a kickoff returner is situated close to the sideline as he is about to receive a free kick (kick-off or punt after a safety), he would be smart to step out-of-bounds, and then touch the ball...the kickoff is now considered out of bounds, Illegal Procedure.

Now, being a Patriots fan, I am also familiar with this rule...if a player steps out of bounds or touches the out-of-bounds line while touching the ball, the ball is considered out of bounds.

This play happened a few years ago. David Patten had caught a pass and landed with two feet in bounds. He was immediately hit hard, and the ball popped loose. Patten was actually knocked unconscious by the hit. He fell to the turf, with his head touching the sideline. The ball was live, but not in anyone's possession. As it bounced around, it touched Patten. Even though Patten lay motionless in bounds, since his head had touched the sideline, he was considered out-of-bounds. And since the live ball touched him, the ball was considered out-of-bounds. Since the fumble was now dead out-of-bounds, possession returned to the team that last legally was in possession of it...the Patriots.

Well here, I'll straighten out the NFL/NCAA rule differential for an Illegal Procedure for a kick out of bounds.

In the NCAA as JP mentioned, they have three options.

In the NFL they have no options. They get the ball at their own forty yard line. Of course I don't see what team would take any other option.

[winters in buffalo]

Actually, that reminds me....I have a question too. I don't remember ever seeing this happen before, but I've seen it twice this year and wonder if the rule changed.

Twice this season, I've seen the kick returner step out of bounds prior to catching the kickoff, although the ball itself was not yet out of bounds. Each time, the kicking team was flagged the same as if the ball had gone out untouched, and the recieving team was awarded possession at the 40.

Now, I understand the point that, since the reciever is out of bounds, the ball is as well. But since the reciever in each instance deliberately caused it to be out of bounds, is it really fair that the penalty still be called on the kicking team?

The reason is so the returner can make the correct decsicion so if the ball is headed out of bounds and the opponents are closing in, they are awarded the illegal procedure penalty for the kickoff going out of bounds.

That's the extent on what I know about that rule.

But why even bother catching it? If the ball's heading out, let it go out on its own and take it at the 40. By 'forcing' it out, I think you should have to take it where you caught it, like a fair catch.

[slapshot]

This punishes the kicking team. You shouldn't be sending a kickoff out of bounds anyway. You know it's a penalty if it goes out of bounds. If the receiving team lets it fall, the wind might keep it in-bounds, the kicking team may recover it, or the receiving team may be forced to gian possession of it deeper in their end of the field.

[Nick 1733]

This punishes the kicking team. You shouldn't be sending a kickoff out of bounds anyway. You know it's a penalty if it goes out of bounds. If the receiving team lets it fall, the wind might keep it in-bounds, the kicking team may recover it, or the receiving team may be forced to gian possession of it deeper in their end of the field.

exactly

[Alphabet Man]

8. Why no celebrations after a touchdown? if i were playing i'd be bringing the crowd into the game after a touchdown with my celebratory moves (chainsaw)

Celebrations are allowed,but only individual and not with teammates and only to a certain extent.Overly celebrating will lead to a penalty and/or fine.

that sucks.... i'll take a fine any day....what type of penalties? i like my chainsaws, slingshots and sniper rifles

[Alphabet Man]

searching through the garage and found an Oakland Raiders ball (a black one), can someone please direct me to a website that explains how to be a good punter/kicker....thanks also, what's the difference between punter and kicker? i know punter is the guy that comes on after 4th down when the team is about to lose possesion and the kicker is the guy that kicks the ball over the crossbar thing after a touchdown

[WJMorris3]

OK, here's the basic difference.

Punters handle punting the ball on fourth down, like you said.

Kickers will deal with all point after touchdowns and field goals, and usually kickoffs as well (though some teams have the punter do this.)

I'd venture a guess and say that most punters could placekick, and that most kickers could punt, if they were required to because of injury.

[paynomind]

If you plan to practice punting or place kicking, I would STRONGLY reccomend investing $20 - $50 american in a regulation size-weight ball. There are hundreds of balls that are lighter and smaller out there for give-aways and toys. When you say your Raiders ball is black, that leads me to believe it is probably way too small, and thereby would not give you adequate practice.

Punting is not just about distance, but also height and placement. When I used to practice, i'd set large garbage cans 30, 40, and 50 yards away, down the sidelines, and do my best to kick the ball as high as possible, and as near the can as possible. I occationally got a ball into the can directly, and more often, had balls bounce into the side of them. This I marked as a success.

The ideal punt goes very high in the air, travels 40+ yards, and when it hits the ground, goes immediately to the side. this would allow your kick to get our of bounds, thereby downing itself. Punts WANT to go out of bounds, kick-offs do not.

[Nick 1733]

OK, here's the basic difference.

Punters handle punting the ball on fourth down, like you said.

Kickers will deal with all point after touchdowns and field goals, and usually kickoffs as well (though some teams have the punter do this.)

I'd venture a guess and say that most punters could placekick, and that most kickers could punt, if they were required to because of injury.

Example A - 2003 Tennessee Titans placekicker Joe Nedney goes down because of injury and is out for the year. Punter Craig Hentrich steps in for Nedney in game one of the season against Oakland and goes 4 for 4 on FG's of 33, 34, 48 and 49 yards along with 1 for 1 on PAT attempts.

[DEAD!]

I only started reading this thread now. I want to point out a few things:

1) A metre is not the same as a yard albeit very close. 1m = 3.28 ft., 1 yd = 3ft.

2) If you read Darren Bennett's bio in the Vikings website, it says he got his first exposure in kicking a gridiron football during an VFL exhibiton game at SkyDome.

3) I believe Bennett is a two-time pro bowler.

Punting distance starts from the line of scrimmage right?

[Nick 1733]

Punting distance starts from the line of scrimmage right?

yes it does. most punters can kick the ball around 55-65 yards in the air.

[Sec19Row53]

Example A - 2003 Tennessee Titans placekicker Joe Nedney goes down because of injury and is out for the year. Punter Craig Hentrich steps in for Nedney in game one of the season against Oakland and goes 4 for 4 on FG's of 33, 34, 48 and 49 yards along with 1 for 1 on PAT attempts.

Of course, Hentrich did handle the place kicking duties at Notre Dame, so he might not be the best example to use in the instance of an "emergency" kicker. He also has handled kick-off duties in the NFL, so more points in favor of him as the back up.

OT - Hey Nick - what's with the Badger love (not that I have a problem with that )?