Marlins threaten to move

[pcgd]

Forget about the home fan base, but the attract of a team in Las Vegas to visiting team's fans would make them break even.

Visiting teams' fans don't buy season tickets, and they don't lease the corporate superboxes that are the bigger sources of ballpark revenue than daily walk-up crowds from out of town. A lot of Vegas's jobs are tied to the gaming and hospitality industries, which means a lot of shift workers and a lot of people who wouldn't be able to take in 81 games a season.

Yes there is more money in the home fan base, and that would be the priority. I just ment there was the added attraction for the team to draw visiting crowds. If "Las Vegas Marlins" showed up on the Cardinals schedule 2 or 3 times a year, I'd definatly be going to one of the series.

I'm sure you put a team in Vegas it'd be very successful. There's stupid money there. Every Casino would own a luxury suite to put high rollers in.

[rmackman]

I think this might just be another empty threat but who knows. Either way I'm ticked off. If they do build a new stadium, it should be in Broward County because there's more money there. That's where a lot of the season ticket holders come from, and then they'd draw from Palm Beach and Dade County as well. The Panthers did that and it helped a little bit. Unfortunately the Marlins are no different than any South Florida team.

DOLPHINS: Everyone here loves football, and they've never had a problem getting fans. It's the only sport that has die hard fans.

HEAT: During various playoff runs in the Alonzo Mourning/Tim Hardaway years they drew pretty well, but as a whole they never had sellouts until Shaquille O'Neal arrived. I used to go when it was Glen Rice and Rony Seikaly. There would be plenty of empty seats.

PANTHERS: They drew well in their first year and in 1996 when they went to the Stanley Cup Finals. Aside from that they hardly drew anything. This year since hockey is back, everyone has been coming, but two years ago the Panthers were doing buy one ticket get one for a friend free deals at every game! Even with that deal they couldn't sell out the then Office Depot Center.

MARLINS: They also drew well in 1993 which was their first season. The following year wasn't that bad either. After that they didn't draw anybody unless a New York team came into town. Then in 1997 they got fans...but only in the last month of the season leading into the playoffs. After the team was gutted, nobody came. Then in 2003 they got fans...again in the last month of the season leading to the playoffs. I'd sit next to people who swore they were die hard fans, yet when I asked them who the Marlins 1993 Opening Day catcher was they didn't know. I'd say Benito Santiago and they'd say "HE PLAYED HERE!?"

As I've said in previous articles, Florida is a transient state. We have people from all over who bring their previous loyalties with them. It will take 20-40 years for a team to build a fan base here (including the Heat and Panthers) because there's no tradition and the kids need to grow up fans of the team. They'll then turn into season ticket holders in time. Most likely they'll be like me and have two cities they root for (Milwaukee/Miami in my case). Then my children will just grow up Miami fans. It's that generation that will develop true blue (or teal) South Florida fans.

Honestly I think the Marlins would have that same fan issue in Las Vegas. They'd have to go somewhere like North Carolina where they'd just support whoever is there without any prior allegiences (sp?). Then again Vegas has a lot of money for advertising and what not. I guess the Marlins would rather have no fans and make a lot of money selling advertising. Anyways, that's all I have to say. Sorry it was so long.

[gashouser27]

As I said before, Florida can't support two ML franchises.

My plan would be for the Marlins franchise be moved to Orlando, keeping Florida's oldest and most successful team in the the state and in the NL East, and more centralized in the state, where the team might be able to draw more from Tampa, Daytona, Orlando, and Miami collectively. Move the Devil Rays franchise to either Las Vegas or Portland. Move Detroit back to the AL East. Move Texas to the AL Central, the Las Vegas/Portland franchise would become the 4th member of the AL West.

I completely agree with this. That is the whole problem. Plus with spring training there is really a lot of baseball in the area.

I think a good plan would be to "merge" the Marlins and Devil Rays (too many fish themes anyway). The Devil Rays have no tradition at all. The Marlins are the Florida Marlins so they could split their home games between Tampa, Orlando and Miami. They would still have a regional fan base to some extent.

Then Selig accomplishes his contraction. The leagues can be realigned a little.

Talent is less diluted.

But it will never happen because Loria is a spoiled owner and Selig isn't about to force anything.

These other cities..Vegas, Indy, Louisville, Portland are still AAA cities at best

[WSU151]

I'm sure you put a team in Vegas it'd be very successful. There's stupid money there. Every Casino would own a luxury suite to put high rollers in.

They'd be successful financially (perhaps), but it would be hard to put real fans in the stadium. There's just way too much else to do and see, even if you gave away free tickets.

[Jigga]

Too bad there aren't more real fans like you down there, bgmack...the team would still have had a shot!

[yh]

I think this might be Portland's team to lose. Seems to me they've worked their way in early and my understanding is that their stadium could be MLB-acceptible by 2008. The Marlins don't draw well to begin with, so a couple of lame duck seasons in South Florida probably wouldn't have that much of a negative impact on the franchise in 06 and 07. Just my $.02.

[tp49]

And with Delgado going to the Mets (according to Newsday) let the floodgates open. Watch out for the moving vans.

[Gamingboy]

Watch out for the moving vans.

...

Moving Vans? That is SO 1984.

[marlinfan]

Article by Ken Rosenthal:

The Marlins are threatening to relocate. Try not to yawn.

Oh, the team's plight is real, as evidenced by its latest fire sale, in progress on your friendly neighborhood transaction wire. But everybody knows what it means when an owner like Jeffrey Loria issues a grave pronouncement such as, "No longer can baseball in South Florida be assured."

Loria wants a new ballpark. Immediately, if not sooner.

Terrific. Let's see Major League Baseball do something completely different, reach into the bulging pockets of its owners and help Loria finance the sucker.

Loria, willing to contribute $212 of his own money, can't do this on his own, and the city and state shouldn't be asked to extend itself any further.

Commissioner Bud Selig, it's your turn.

Relocation isn't a serious option. And no, the Marlins won't be contracted when Major League Baseball gains the right to eliminate two teams after next season without union consent.

Loria will simply strip down the Marlins, operate with a payroll in the $30 million range and reap the benefits of revenue sharing, making money while losing games.

It isn't Loria's preferred way of doing business; he has demonstrated that he wants to win. But the stadium-financing issues in Las Vegas, Portland or any other city the Marlins might wish to relocate would be just as vexing as they are in Miami.

Sorry, Jeffrey, you're staying a while.

MLB can't abandon a city that Loria calls "the gateway to the Americas" at a time when it's starting the World Baseball Classic and entering a new era of internationalization.

Contraction? Makes even less sense.

"Baseball, particularly under Bud Selig, doesn't make cataclysmic moves; it makes glacial moves," says Andrew Zimbalist, a professor of economics at Smith College and the author of several books on sports business.

Contraction certainly would qualify as cataclysmic, but the threat of the owners eliminating 50 jobs and flooding the free-agent market with players will be a negotiating ploy in the next labor talks, nothing more.

MLB is in a much stronger financial position than it was when Selig first uttered the "C" word in 2001. Franchises are rising in value, and the cost of buying out two owners would be exorbitant.

The solution, much as it might horrify Selig and Co., is for MLB to put its newfound economic might to good use and help eliminate the funding gap in the Marlins' proposed $435 million retractable-roof ballpark in Miami. The gap, projected to be a mere $30 million last May, has since grown to more than $100 million, according to Miami-Dade County officials.

Whatever the price, government officials in a hurricane-ravaged state suddenly might become more flexible if MLB offered to make a significant contribution; some have even suggested the Marlins' new facility could serve as a hurricane shelter. The NFL routinely helps finance stadium projects. Heaven forbid that MLB engage in such visionary activity when it might cut into the owners' profits ? and make no mistake, most of them are profiting now.

No, MLB would rather continue making threats.

On April 25, 2001, Selig sent a letter to the Florida legislature warning that the Marlins would be moved or eliminated if they did not get a new ballpark, prompting one state senator to remark that the warning sounded as if it was coming from Johnny Soprano of HBO's "Sopranos."

Last May 12, MLB chief operating officer Bob DuPuy sent a letter to the city of Miami and Miami-Dade County saying that they had until June 9 to revise financing plans for a new ballpark. Like most MLB deadlines, it passed without a whimper.

Now comes Loria's solemn statement, which came one day after the Marlins traded right-hander Josh Beckett, MVP of the 2003 World Series, to the Red Sox.

Nice timing.

The 1-2 punch to the gut is not completely unwarranted; public money helped finance two basketball arenas and one hockey arena in South Florida, and the question of whether MLB can survive in the region ? and across the state in Tampa Bay ? is the subject of legitimate debate.

The Marlins failed to sustain their fan base after winning the World Series in 1997 and 2003. Former owner Wayne Huizenga's fire sale after the '97 title created lasting ill will, and not even Loria's good-faith efforts have boosted attendance significantly.

The simple analysis is that fans in South Florida don't care, but the Marlins' strong TV ratings indicate otherwise. For the 632nd time, baseball fails markets; markets don't fail baseball. Fifteen years ago, Atlanta, Cleveland and Seattle were trouble spots for MLB, but new ballparks helped revive the teams in those cities. The Marlins need more than a new park; they must better cater to Hispanic fans and continue working to erase past scars.

Loria tries. MLB, by paying its share for a change, needs to help him succeed.

The solution isn't in Vegas or Portland or San Antonio or Buffalo.

The solution is in South Florida.

Very well written article overall.

[The_Admiral]

Norfolk is ready for a team.

[Cyclopsis Joe]

Norfolk is ready for a team.

So is Castkanie, Oregon..I don't see them getting one.

[Gamingboy]

Norfolk is ready for a team.

So is Castkanie, Oregon..I don't see them getting one.

My god, every city in AMERICA wants a Major League Baseball team!

[rmackman]

Norfolk is ready for a team.

So is Castkanie, Oregon..I don't see them getting one.

My god, every city in AMERICA wants a Major League Baseball team!

Except Miami.

[VitaminD]

The Marlins are the Florida Marlins so they could split their home games between Tampa, Orlando and Miami. They would still have a regional fan base to some extent.

Please tell me you were kidding with this. Playing home games in multiple cities worked so well for the Expos that it's bound to work for the Marlins, right?

Just because a team was given a state/regional place name doesn't mean they turn into barnstormers all summer. Players wouldn't want to join a team where they wouldn't have 1 place to call home for the season. Too much travel, too much hassle. Even if it's just within Florida - Miami to Orlando would be a godawful commute no matter how much you get paid.

[marlinfan]

Would just like to mention that one of the many reasons attendance is bad is because the Marlins, 1) They cannot sell seat licenses, 2) Under the lease they cannot sell tickets to the top 100 corporations in South Florida.

In other news, reports indicate Wayne has offered the Marlins land and cash if they build the stadium near DS. (This would mean the super site he wants to build would be busy 11 months of the year.)

[GeorgesL]

Anyone think there's a possibility of the Montréal Marlins?  Would keep them in the NL East.  One never knows 

I'd go for that, but I don't know if they should bring the Expos' name out of retirement.

Then again, if the fans demand it, maybe they would. I, for one, would. (As long as it's not owned by Jeffrey Loria, who might be Steinbrenner's evil twin.)

[The_Admiral]

Why is Hampton Roads such a poor choice?