smzimbabwe Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Last night I caught the last couple of minutes of the Montreal-Hamilton game. The last play of the game had Hamilton complete a short pass, the receiver ran upfield, then kicked the ball forward. Another Hamilton player got it and made it all the way to the Montreal 10 (with a couple of laterals thrown in) before going out of bounds. The officials had thrown a flag on the play and then conferred as to whether or not the Hamilton player receiving the kicked ball was onside or not (he was ruled to be onside)...My question is basically - what the hell happened? I didn't know you could kick the ball to advance it rugby-style and I don't understand this onside kick-receiver rule. Any help here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollux Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Any player may kick the ball forward. Only players that are behind the "kicker" at the time the ball leaves the foot can recover the football.Therefore, the referee threw a flag, because he wasn't sure if the player who recovered it was eligible. Four times IHL Nielson Cup Champions - Montréal Shamrocks (2008-2009 // 2009-2010 // 2012-2013 // 2014-2015) Five times TNFF Confederation Cup Champions - Yellowknife Eagles (2009 CC VI // 2010 CC VII // 2015 CC XII // 2017 CC XIV // 2018 CC XV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleujayone Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Is there some old obscure rule burried in the NFL rulebook that allows for such a thing to take place there too?I ask only because we just saw our first drop kick in about 65 years in the NFL so I'm wondering if such a tactic would be allowed in the NFL, it just isn't practiced. While for the most par most everyone knows the basic rules in the NFL, since the rulebook is really thick and always being altered I often wonder if they're are forgotten rules among the pages.Is there someone around here with access to the complete set of NFL rules to confirm or deny this? We all have our little faults. Mine's in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred T. Jane Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Is there someone around here with access to the complete set of NFL rules to confirm or deny this? I can't find the offical NFL rules online, but here's this year's NCAA rulebook: http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2006/200...tball_rules.pdf[edit] The '06 Rulebook is being rewritten, so here's the link to the '05 Rulebook: http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2005/200...tball_rules.pdf [Croatia National Team Manager Slavan] Bilic then went on to explain how Croatia's success can partially be put down to his progressive man-management techniques. "Sometimes I lie in the bed with my players. I go to the room of Vedran Corluka and Luka Modric when I see they have a problem and I lie in bed with them and we talk for 10 minutes." Maybe Capello could try getting through to his players this way too? Although how far he'd get with Joe Cole jumping up and down on the mattress and Rooney demanding to be read his favourite page from The Very Hungry Caterpillar is open to question. --The Guardian's Fiver, 08 September 2008 Attention: In order to obtain maximum enjoyment from your stay at the CCSLC, the reader is advised that the above post may contain large amounts of sarcasm, dry humour, or statements which should not be taken in any true sort of seriousness. As a result, the above poster absolves himself of any and all blame in the event that a forum user responds to the aforementioned post without taking the previous notice into account. Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy your stay at the CCSLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korkie Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I know in the NFL you can't intentionally or otherwise fumble the ball forward to a teammate to gain yardage. If a teammate of the fumbling player recovers ball past the point of the fumble the ball is spotted where the fumble occured. The above situation seems much the same thing. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."Dr. Kelso: My son is a big baseball fan. Not so much playing it, but more the designing and sewing of uniforms.Tyler: That's neat.Dr. Kelso: No, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred T. Jane Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 I know in the NFL you can't intentionally or otherwise fumble the ball forward to a teammate to gain yardage. If a teammate of the fumbling player recovers ball past the point of the fumble the ball is spotted where the fumble occured. The above situation seems much the same thing. I was reading in the NCAA Rulebook, and according to Rule 6-1 regarding Free Kicks you can get the ball after ten yards, just like an onside kick and advance it for a touchdown. As for scoring anything else, that's a no-go according to Rule 8-2 and 8-3, which states that a try or field goal must come on a scrimmage kick (field goal kick) only.Geez, hockey rules are so much easier to remember...especially when you were a ref. [Croatia National Team Manager Slavan] Bilic then went on to explain how Croatia's success can partially be put down to his progressive man-management techniques. "Sometimes I lie in the bed with my players. I go to the room of Vedran Corluka and Luka Modric when I see they have a problem and I lie in bed with them and we talk for 10 minutes." Maybe Capello could try getting through to his players this way too? Although how far he'd get with Joe Cole jumping up and down on the mattress and Rooney demanding to be read his favourite page from The Very Hungry Caterpillar is open to question. --The Guardian's Fiver, 08 September 2008 Attention: In order to obtain maximum enjoyment from your stay at the CCSLC, the reader is advised that the above post may contain large amounts of sarcasm, dry humour, or statements which should not be taken in any true sort of seriousness. As a result, the above poster absolves himself of any and all blame in the event that a forum user responds to the aforementioned post without taking the previous notice into account. Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy your stay at the CCSLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampman Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 I know in the NFL you can't intentionally or otherwise fumble the ball forward to a teammate to gain yardage. If a teammate of the fumbling player recovers ball past the point of the fumble the ball is spotted where the fumble occured. The above situation seems much the same thing. But it's not a fumble--it's a kick... Comic Sans walks into a bar, and the bartender says, "Sorry, we don't serve your type here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smzimbabwe Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Thanks for the answer. I've been watching football for 30 years now and never seen anything like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleujayone Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 I know in the NFL you can't intentionally or otherwise fumble the ball forward to a teammate to gain yardage. If a teammate of the fumbling player recovers ball past the point of the fumble the ball is spotted where the fumble occured. The above situation seems much the same thing. But it's not a fumble--it's a kick... So does that mean this kind of play CAN legally be executed in the NFL?So for college, if there was a quick kick, the offense could advance it for a touchdown after ther ball went 10 yards, but not if the kick was a FG attempt. It sounds like it is legal in the NCAA but as we all know the rules between collge and pro ball do have some differences. I'm still not clear on this because I thought a punt of any kind could only be recovered only after it was touched by an opposing player and even then you can only recover it, not advance it as it is only considered a fumble. I'm also not clear because if a player kicks the ball forward after advancing the ball on a forward pass, wouldn't that be considered a type of forward latteral?Too many rules...obscure or otherwise. We all have our little faults. Mine's in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 The CFL has a rule for what is considered an "Open Field Kick". That is what the player did. In 2004, Calgary successfully did it to score what should have been ruled the game winning TD, but the officiating crew errored, BC won it and their protest was denied. In US high schools (NFHS), the NCAA (used in TX and a few other states), and NFL, it is illegal to kick the ball once the ball has crossed the original line of scrimmage. 5 yard penalty from previous spot, loss of down. One of the other posters had the correct NCAA rule for kicking, rule 6. Section 2, article 10 give you a little more.The NFL is terrible in publishing a rulebook, but I guess they don't want us to know everything. I'd pay $20 for one. You can get NCCA books on line or in your local bokstore. NBA used to publish them as late as 1996 as I bought one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleujayone Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 The CFL has a rule for what is considered an "Open Field Kick". That is what the player did. In 2004, Calgary successfully did it to score what should have been ruled the game winning TD, but the officiating crew errored, BC won it and their protest was denied. In US high schools (NFHS), the NCAA (used in TX and a few other states), and NFL, it is illegal to kick the ball once the ball has crossed the original line of scrimmage. 5 yard penalty from previous spot, loss of down. One of the other posters had the correct NCAA rule for kicking, rule 6. Section 2, article 10 give you a little more.The NFL is terrible in publishing a rulebook, but I guess they don't want us to know everything. I'd pay $20 for one. You can get NCCA books on line or in your local bokstore. NBA used to publish them as late as 1996 as I bought one. But can you advance the ball before crossing the line of scrimmage by kicking it, or is it always considered a punt regardless of the down and situation and therefore always treated as such?And sort of off-topic, didn't football just outlaw the "fumblerooski" type of trick play were you advance the ball forward by either faking the snap from center or placing the ball on the ground for a offensive lineman to pick up and advance? Ionly ask because that too seems to be an obscure play/rule that still gets action every now and again. We all have our little faults. Mine's in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discrim Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 yeah, it was just outlawed in high school. the NCAA's had it banned since 92, and the NFL since the 60s. A strong mind gets high off success, a weak mind gets high off bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 But can you advance the ball before crossing the line of scrimmage by kicking it, or is it always considered a punt regardless of the down and situation and therefore always treated as such? It would not defined as a "punt', rather a "scrimmage kick". A punt technially is when the ball is dropped before the foot touches the ball. But formation, meaning the is not direct hand to hand delivery for the ball from the center, a punt is a scrimmage kick.You cannot advance a scrimmage kick that has gone past the neutral zone, unless it has first touched the opponent. If the kicking touches first, the ball becomes dead. NCAA Rule 6, Section 3, Article 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampman Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 The CFL has a rule for what is considered an "Open Field Kick". That is what the player did. In 2004, Calgary successfully did it to score what should have been ruled the game winning TD, but the officiating crew errored, BC won it and their protest was denied. That sucked--they try a trick play--it works and it gets denied illegitmately...They even told the officials beforehand they were going to try something like that so they'd be prepared to rule on it.Oh well, I got over it--the 04 season was a write off for the Stamps anyway. Comic Sans walks into a bar, and the bartender says, "Sorry, we don't serve your type here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi74 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 The CFL has a rule for what is considered an "Open Field Kick". That is what the player did. In 2004, Calgary successfully did it to score what should have been ruled the game winning TD, but the officiating crew errored, BC won it and their protest was denied. In US high schools (NFHS), the NCAA (used in TX and a few other states), and NFL, it is illegal to kick the ball once the ball has crossed the original line of scrimmage. 5 yard penalty from previous spot, loss of down. One of the other posters had the correct NCAA rule for kicking, rule 6. Section 2, article 10 give you a little more.The NFL is terrible in publishing a rulebook, but I guess they don't want us to know everything. I'd pay $20 for one. You can get NCCA books on line or in your local bokstore. NBA used to publish them as late as 1996 as I bought one. The NFL sells a rulebook I bought the 2002 edition before the 2002 season at a Border's Books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 The CFL has a rule for what is considered an "Open Field Kick". That is what the player did. In 2004, Calgary successfully did it to score what should have been ruled the game winning TD, but the officiating crew errored, BC won it and their protest was denied. In US high schools (NFHS), the NCAA (used in TX and a few other states), and NFL, it is illegal to kick the ball once the ball has crossed the original line of scrimmage. 5 yard penalty from previous spot, loss of down. One of the other posters had the correct NCAA rule for kicking, rule 6. Section 2, article 10 give you a little more.The NFL is terrible in publishing a rulebook, but I guess they don't want us to know everything. I'd pay $20 for one. You can get NCCA books on line or in your local bokstore. NBA used to publish them as late as 1996 as I bought one. The NFL sells a rulebook I bought the 2002 edition before the 2002 season at a Border's Books. Granted, but even the 2005 version was abridged. NFL.com just goes over the basics. Salary Cap information would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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