Game 2 controversy

[jkrdevil]

Some controversy in Game 2 tonight. Apparently some substance was seen on Kenny Rogers hand in the first inning. Rogers said it was dirt but sportscenter showed the same spot on Rogers in the LCS and DS. It could very well possibly be pine tar in order to give him a better grip. The Cardinals according to MLB never formally asked to have Rogers inspected during the inning although they did talk to the ump after the inning and the Ump told him to wash it off again according to MLB. However Rogers said the ump never told him to wash it off.

Personally, I think it was pine tar and the umps messed up by not throwing him out so MLB is now covering it up by saying it was dirt. I find it very unlikely though that he would have dirt in that same spot his two previous starts. It also would explain why he has suddenly become a great clutch postseason when in the past he has had control problems in big situations.

[See Red]

He's got some balls to try this in the post season if it is pine tar.

However, I don't know if that explains why he's been so great... he was great even after he washed it off.

[OnWis97]

It did not look like dirt to me. Then again, I think it is St. Louis' job to make the complaint and they did not.

Did anyone see Steve Palermo address the media? It looked like backpeddling and damage control to me.

[LMU]

It seems like it must not have been something illegal if the Cardinals didn't bother to have Rogers' hand inspected. As Joe Buck stated, the team had staff in the clubhouse watching the broadcast, and if there was suspicion, La Russa would have been notified and would have addressed the issue more formally with the umpire.

Besides, not only was whatever it is apparently removed after the first inning, but for this whole reborn postseason pitching career to be valid, he would have had to get away with using pine tar in three postseason games, and it would have been noticed a heck of a lot sooner with all the cameras in place.

What comes to mind in my case was when Frank Robinson had Brendan Donnelly's glove inspected last season, resulting in an automatic ejection and suspension. If the substance was truly illegal, there would have been much swifter action taken. There's no way that Major League Baseball would let such blatent cheating happen on a global stage after all the controversies experienced by the sport. Besides, they showed the home plate umpire discuss the issue with one of the high ranking MLB officers between innings, and no action was taken.

Seems like FOX was yet again trying to make a story up to gain more ratings for a midwest-only World Series.

[ROCHitman]

RIght-O!

He pitched even better after the substance was removed.

This shoudln't even be an issue.

The umpire crew handled it perfectly.

[NJTank]

Yeah they did.

Now if they would Pinetar on his hand again then they would of had to act but there was nothing Rogers was great series is tied.

[STL FANATIC]

Kenny Rogers pitched well with some good luck and sharp defense and his performance should not be attributed soley or necessarily much at all to what was on his hand.

That said, the umps and MLB handled this completely wrong. That's a foreign substance not dirt without a doubt. It's pine tar or perhaps some other substance (I've heard it speculated it was something called benzoine or something), but that's not rosin or dirt. He had it on his hands and rubbed it on the ball (he rubbed the ball before every pitch with that spot of his hand).

That's an automatic ejection and suspension. The umps noticed it and should have had him ejected. Even now he can and should be suspended.

The Cardinals got everything possible allowed by the rules done to Julian Tavarez when something was on his cap a couple years ago, and a lot of stuff done to him that wasn't within the rules.

Kenny Rogers is gonna get off scott free.

That's ridiculous.

The guys a blatant cheater.

Can some crap on your hands make you pitch 23 scoreless innings in a row? No, I don't believe so. There's a lot of talent and work there. But that stuff might help a bit, especially in cold weather.

And regarding the fact that it was wiped off, there was definatley still a residue there, and a lot of the possible substances would still be sticky enough at that point to help with the grip.

The Cards plain didn't hit, so I'm not blaming the loss on this, but I'm disguisted by the fact that Rogers is gonna get away with this.

[FiddySicks]

Man, could you imagine if that were to happen? A suddenly hot pitcher getting tossed in game 2 of the World Series for cheating. Now that wouldve been memorable.

[Cyclopsis Joe]

I want to make a comment about STL being a Cardinals fan, but it's been done to death so I'll skip it.

If it was something illegal, he would've been tossed. No if's and's or but's. Since he didn't get thrown out, it wasn't illegal.

[STL FANATIC]

I want to make a comment about STL being a Cardinals fan, but it's been done to death so I'll skip it.

If it was something illegal, he would've been tossed. No if's and's or but's. Since he didn't get thrown out, it wasn't illegal.

It's not a matter of illegal or legal. There's no such distinction.

Do you believe that was mud on his hand? I've never seen mud that looks like that.

Anything else is a foreign substance and calls for him to be tossed.

If it wasn't foreign, it didn't need to be removed.

[Guest]

La Russa was asleep at the wheel on this one and the umps would've blown it anyway. Right after the at-bat in which the pine tar was shown, La Russa should've been up there, and Rogers should've been thrown out of the game for a flagrant infraction like that. Of course, St. Louis should've been hitting before they were down to the last strike, but I was practically yelling at my TV for the umps to toss Rogers. Who cares if it's the playoffs? That's even more of a reason to crack down.

[FiddySicks]

The only thing that sticks out in my mind about Rogers and this situation is that he hasnt exactly been a model citizen. Hes done some pretty shady stuff in the past, whos to say he wasnt trying to pull a fast one on this one?

And im not necessarily saying thats what i believe, im just playing the Devil's Advocate.

[Cyclopsis Joe]

I want to make a comment about STL being a Cardinals fan, but it's been done to death so I'll skip it.

If it was something illegal, he would've been tossed. No if's and's or but's. Since he didn't get thrown out, it wasn't illegal.

It's not a matter of illegal or legal. There's no such distinction.

Do you believe that was mud on his hand? I've never seen mud that looks like that.

Anything else is a foreign substance and calls for him to be tossed.

If it wasn't foreign, it didn't need to be removed.

Sorry, I thought you said "illegal" in place of "against the rules", I was trying to keep with that trend. Anyhow, I only caught part of the 8th, so I didn't see it. I was just saying that if the umps thought it was cool, then it's cool. It's just like the refs in football, they screw up..sorry.

[STL FANATIC]

I too wish La Russa would have argued it, and I'm worried the reason he was more adament has to do with his friendship with Leyland.

But here's the thing...

It's not his job to enforce the rules. He can point something out to the umps, but the umps noticed it anyways. They gave Rogers a second chance, and that's, pretty much ridiculous.

Check this out...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1EoeDA8E874

Sorry, I thought you said "illegal" in place of "against the rules", I was trying to keep with that trend. Anyhow, I only caught part of the 8th, so I didn't see it. I was just saying that if the umps thought it was cool, then it's cool. It's just like the refs in football, they screw up..sorry.

I can handle the "they screw up..sorry" sentiment. That's fine. The point is they screwed up badly when a major violation was occuring. But they DID screw up.

The MLB still has a chance to not screw up and suspend him. They have enough evidence to do so.

But they're spineless and won't.

Again, I don't think Rogers beat the Cards because he had crap on his hand (though I do believe the crap was there the whole game, just not as thick as in the first). I just believe Rogers cheated, and he should be punished.

And sorry to be nitpicky about the illegal think. It's just that they don't define substances as legal or illegal, but rather foreign or not-foreign.

[FiddySicks]

Yeah, after seeing that im convinced he cheated. Im disliking that dude more and more every day.

[Cyclopsis Joe]

And sorry to be nitpicky about the illegal think. It's just that they don't define substances as legal or illegal, but rather foreign or not-foreign.

That's a'ight. I didn't what the terms were.

You're gonna think he cheated, but it's the MLB's call. You say spineless, they say they know what they're doing. That's how it goes.

Now, I may agree with you if someone can put up a picture so I can see this "dirt/sticky tack/glue/wtf ever" and it looks like he cheated. I'm just saying right now that it's the MLB's call.

[FiddySicks]

And sorry to be nitpicky about the illegal think. It's just that they don't define substances as legal or illegal, but rather foreign or not-foreign.

That's a'ight. I didn't what the terms were.

You're gonna think he cheated, but it's the MLB's call. You say spineless, they say they know what they're doing. That's how it goes.

Now, I may agree with you if someone can put up a picture so I can see this "dirt/sticky tack/glue/wtf ever" and it looks like he cheated. I'm just saying right now that it's the MLB's call.

Check out that video. It shows a course of games where his hand is "dirty" in the exact same spot.

[STL FANATIC]

And sorry to be nitpicky about the illegal think. It's just that they don't define substances as legal or illegal, but rather foreign or not-foreign.

That's a'ight. I didn't what the terms were.

You're gonna think he cheated, but it's the MLB's call. You say spineless, they say they know what they're doing. That's how it goes.

Now, I may agree with you if someone can put up a picture so I can see this "dirt/sticky tack/glue/wtf ever" and it looks like he cheated. I'm just saying right now that it's the MLB's call.

After the first, he wiped this off, but a yellow residue remained. Pine tar, benzoine, tree sap, or whatever, chances are that residue was still pretty sticky. You have to scrub that stuff off good, and even then, it's still gonna be sticky.

[Cyclopsis Joe]

Yeah, if that's dirt then I'll give Kenny Rogers a free cassette tape of The Gambler.

(Yes, I completely agree that it is pine tar or some other such)

[STL FANATIC]

For what it's worth, ESPN showed these photos from the ALDS and the ALCS.

That video shows them a little clearer than these photos. Either way, they're not as bad or obvious as the ones from tonight, so I don't know.