Please help get rid of the Sabres new logo!

[js °]

js, I for one love your Sabres logo. Honestly, its the perfect update of the classic mark.

ebod39, you're entitled to your opinion, but face the fact that you seem to be the only one who doesn't like js' update of the Sabres' classic logo. That's fine, you're free to like and dislike whatever you want, but why should js even contemplate tweaking his logo to your suggestions when the general consensus is that it's perfect as is? Why should he tamper with a design everyone seems to like to appease the one guy who doesn't like it?

Also, one has to wonder how much your posts are fuelled by jealousy. No before you start ripping me to shreds, just take a breath. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from your last post I assume that you designed at least some of those leaked Sabres logos. These logos have received lukewarm feedback at best, while js' mark has been almost unanimously praised. Given that you seem to be the only one to attack js' work, I have to wonder if jealousy isn't playing a role.

Thanks man, I appreciate it. I don't know about any jealousy or not, thats something only ebod knows, but regardless, I just wish I could understand the design decisions he's claiming.

I know I'm the only person to ever have a negative reaction to your concepts on any board I've ever seen but step back and forget that everyone always blows sunshine up your a$$ about these concepts and take some criticism. Mine were designed trying to keep the propotions of the original mark in mind. The lines on the underside flow back from the chin to the hind legs, the lines have purpose and meaning, that's designing. I don't see that when I look at your bison rendering, I see a clunky, stout, jagged animal, not the sleek yet powerful charge of a bison.

I forgot to address this before. If you go to The New Blue and Gold Project site, you can click on a section called Previous Concepts. These were my original ideas from back in 2003. They were scattered and rough, but I wanted to get them out of my head, and get some excitement back into the blood of Buffalo about wanting Blue & Gold back. From that point I got ALOT of emails. With ALOT of feedback. Some of it was overly positive and supportive, some of it was blindly negative. I listened to alot of people's comments and critiques ... good and bad and ending up refining the mark into a much more focused and refined mark and brand identity. Its maybe 80% there, but its come along. And not because I love sunshine blown up my a$$. But because I took criticism ... and used it.

I was also meaning to ask you about your "lines on the underside flow back from the chin to the hind legs, the lines have purpose and meaning". Because I understand the three dimensional version of the original Sabres logo to read ... the legs as you see them from left to right are 1)front right 2)front left 3)rear right 4)rear left. I repeated this pattern in my concepts which allowed for the buffalo to seem to be leaping slightly towards us, rather than directly left, caught in perfect profile.

The legs on your bison seem to be a very different configuration ...

As well as the hard to understand zag line which "indicates the distinction between the mane and the body". I have the same line, used as a subtle shadow so it didn't seem consistent with the outline color making it appear as though there is a cut into the buffalo. I also rendered a shag found on bison flowing backwards signifying motion of the leaping buffalo. Your mane distinction line however seems to form one giant TUFT making it appear only all the more cotton like.

I don't mean to critique each thing to death here, but it seems that you have gone out of your way to try and explain everything in your designs as superior to mine because of your illustrative purpose and design sensibility that mine lacked, and I'm simply trying to understand how you think this.

[CubsFanBudMan]

When I look at that concept I think of this guy:

... and that goat/guy has always creeped me out a bit. (Not to get us back on the subject of goatheads and Buffalo.) But, man, do some burgers sound good.

js' designs may not be perfect to him or others, but they do seem to have the support of the fans. And he deserves a tip of the cap for that. Of course, the fans seem to be supporting the slug also by most accounts, so he might never get the chance to work with the team and develop this concept further. Here's hoping that isn't the case.

And ebod, I don't think any of the slug-haters would mind at all if the vintage-inspired logos you designed had been unveiled instead of the slug.

I find this designer war interesting, but you guys both have skills. Keep doing your thing your way.

[olivier in france]

And ebod, I don't think any of the slug-haters would mind at all if the vintage-inspired logos you designed had been unveiled instead of the slug.

I find this designer war interesting, but you guys both have skills. Keep doing your thing your way.

In fact all Sabres i know (ans i know quite a few!!), even the ones like me who were just waiting for the comeback of the classic blue and gold old design, liked the Celsius designs. While the slug has been rejected by 90% of the fans from day one (and even a lot before as they have not been even able to keep the slug logo secret till it was official...)

[STL FANATIC]

The reason JS' designs near perfection is that he never intended to design a brand new identity for the team. There's no reason to try and fit in new meanings, hidden or not.

What he wanted and needed to do was update a classic and loved mark. And he did. Wonderfully. That old logo has all the meaning it needs in it. And he took that and made it look wonderful in today's world. He's never claimed it's completely done, but in its current stage, I believe it could be. The Sabres would have a wonderful logo if they adopted that one.

I love your work ebod, but none of your Sabres designs do very much for me.

In the ones that are updates to the classic logo, you change it but don't really update it, and as such it remains very dated looking.

In your completely redesigned logo, I LOVE the thought process behind it. I fully agree with the idea that not every meaning should be obvious...they should be discoverable, but they don't need to be obvious to any and every viewer. And I know your not finished with the concept. But I just can't see myself appreciating that logo even when finished. As much as I like the symbolism behind it, the flowing locks don't do it for me. The profile head doesn't do it for me. Most of all the fact that there are no sabres in the logo doesn't do it for me.

Any one of the above designs would be better than the slug, but at this point, only with something similar to JS' do I think I'd have found myself going "they really nailed it."

I hope you take no offense ebod. You're an excellent designer and I know you can handle criticism. But I hate to be so upfront about not liking someones work, especially someone of so much talent.

[daschuck77]

I think we could agree that both concepts attempt to capture the symbolism and actual tradition of the team.

The slug is an aesthetic nightmare to me...

It's described as a "stylized leaping bison" Well first, it's yellow which takes away from the sacred buffalo theme, and number two if it's leaping how it does it with no legs, and how come its trajectory makes it look like it's a split second from nose-diving into the ground. It looks so disproportionate between its head, no legs, and abrupt angle in the lines of its ?leap?. And in order to fit in with the white jerseys and not give off so much whitespace, it almost would have to be blue, just like how the "B" is on their shoulders...

I'm no designer but that is what I see when I look at it.

The thing is absolute horse for lack of better descriptive terms.

I would think it best if analyze the shortcomings of the slug instead of the designs of others who believe it too should be gone as well.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

I don't care what anyone says, that should have been what buffalo released. I think it is a travesty to think the slug is the best they could come up with. If they released what you designed, i would be first in line to buy that jersey. Their current jersey design isn't great but that logo would make it look so much better. Call it blowing sunshine but thats exactly what i wanted as the new buffalo logo since it perfectly modernizes the old logo. Which is what most fans expected when they demanded a return to blue and gold not some yellow streak on a jersey.

[sigma716]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

[daschuck77]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

That was yesterday and yesterday is gone...Look for a nose dive in sales, ESPECIALLY since this year there is no vintage third to pile on the total.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

That was yesterday and yesterday is gone...Look for a nose dive in sales, ESPECIALLY since this year there is no vintage third to pile on the total.

and a team that is going to be in the basement for a while.

[Puck]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

That was yesterday and yesterday is gone...Look for a nose dive in sales, ESPECIALLY since this year there is no vintage third to pile on the total.

That means squat given that this happens to EVERY team that puts out a new jersey because the market is gone. Anyone who wanted a new jersey with the new look has bought one. It's very rare that people are buying jerseys every season for the sake of having the "2007 model."

It's just time to let go. You cause was better suited for a year ago. The cause failed then and any attempt to do it now is merely wasting your time.

Accept the slug.

Move on with life.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

That was yesterday and yesterday is gone...Look for a nose dive in sales, ESPECIALLY since this year there is no vintage third to pile on the total.

That means squat given that this happens to EVERY team that puts out a new jersey because the market is gone. Anyone who wanted a new jersey with the new look has bought one. It's very rare that people are buying jerseys every season for the sake of having the "2007 model."

It's just time to let go. You cause was better suited for a year ago. The cause failed then and any attempt to do it now is merely wasting your time.

Accept the slug.

Move on with life.

tell that to the isles fans who in less than 2 years was able to harpoon fisherman to the graveyard. so it can be done after the fact.

[js °]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

That was yesterday and yesterday is gone...Look for a nose dive in sales, ESPECIALLY since this year there is no vintage third to pile on the total.

That means squat given that this happens to EVERY team that puts out a new jersey because the market is gone. Anyone who wanted a new jersey with the new look has bought one. It's very rare that people are buying jerseys every season for the sake of having the "2007 model."

It's just time to let go. You cause was better suited for a year ago. The cause failed then and any attempt to do it now is merely wasting your time.

Accept the slug.

Move on with life.

I'd like to honor you, good sir Puck. If my calculations are correct, this is a monumental moment. You sir, are the ONE HUNDRED THOUSANDTH PERSON to use the SHUTUP AND ACCEPT IT argument in reference to the slug. You're award is that you, and YOU ALONE are for now and ever exempt from being pestered by those requesting some sort of explanation ... using something at least resembling reason or logic (if anyone does ask, just tell them you won a contest, they'll know what you mean).

I really don't see one ounce of sense in this argument.

Lets next, tell those protesting the war, "HEY, you protested this thing before it started ... well know we're in it, so shut up and accept it. You had your chance." Please explain to us why anyone should sit on their hands when they are simply trying to improve something they are a part of.

If you disagree, please tell us why and we can discuss our different views ... If you don't wish to participate in this discussion ... then don't. Its that simple. Don't click on the thread, don't visit the websites, just leave it alone. This is like people who write letters to TV shows to let them know how offensive they are and they want them off the air (as if there is one channel and someone forces you to watch it).

Grow up guys ... if you want to debate the points of whats best for the team, the fans, and the city ... lets do that. But don't just poke you're head in to say shut up and walk away ... thats a waste of everyones time.

(oh ... and thanks for the kind words on my work STL Fanatic and Coast2Coast ... its always great to hear how well you're work is received ... thanks again)

[charger77]

Dude your work is awesome. Do you have any desings that are being used by any pro/semi-pro/college teams? Any new concepts or projects coming our way?

Dan

[Puck]

I'd like to honor you, good sir Puck.

I don't know where to begin.

I'd like to thank the small people: midgets, dwarfs, Verne Troyer.

I'd like to thank Jesus....

[daschuck77]

Here is a very rough outline of how much better a blue logo would be on the white jersey...This is old, thanks for the memories Marty!

John is working on something much more professional and illustrative of his logo on the current Sabres jersey.

[sigma716]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

That was yesterday and yesterday is gone...Look for a nose dive in sales, ESPECIALLY since this year there is no vintage third to pile on the total.

That means squat given that this happens to EVERY team that puts out a new jersey because the market is gone. Anyone who wanted a new jersey with the new look has bought one. It's very rare that people are buying jerseys every season for the sake of having the "2007 model."

It's just time to let go. You cause was better suited for a year ago. The cause failed then and any attempt to do it now is merely wasting your time.

Accept the slug.

Move on with life.

tell that to the isles fans who in less than 2 years was able to harpoon fisherman to the graveyard. so it can be done after the fact.

big difference here is they didnt sell jack of the fisherman logo, that had a big part to do with it. the sabres are the NUMBER ONE selling jersey/hat/shirt, what have you on nhl.com.

[daschuck77]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

That was yesterday and yesterday is gone...Look for a nose dive in sales, ESPECIALLY since this year there is no vintage third to pile on the total.

That means squat given that this happens to EVERY team that puts out a new jersey because the market is gone. Anyone who wanted a new jersey with the new look has bought one. It's very rare that people are buying jerseys every season for the sake of having the "2007 model."

It's just time to let go. You cause was better suited for a year ago. The cause failed then and any attempt to do it now is merely wasting your time.

Accept the slug.

Move on with life.

tell that to the isles fans who in less than 2 years was able to harpoon fisherman to the graveyard. so it can be done after the fact.

big difference here is they didnt sell jack of the fisherman logo, that had a big part to do with it. the sabres are the NUMBER ONE selling jersey/hat/shirt, what have you on nhl.com.

And Jack was the #4 selling jersey in the NHL of a BAD team in 1996.

[olivier in france]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

well 10% of the Sabres fans is still about 10 times the average number of fans of the Sun Belt franchises!

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

I love how everyone keeps throwing out the "90% of fans were and still are against the slug" yet you couldnt buy a jersey with the logo for months when it came out. sales=support folks.

That was yesterday and yesterday is gone...Look for a nose dive in sales, ESPECIALLY since this year there is no vintage third to pile on the total.

That means squat given that this happens to EVERY team that puts out a new jersey because the market is gone. Anyone who wanted a new jersey with the new look has bought one. It's very rare that people are buying jerseys every season for the sake of having the "2007 model."

It's just time to let go. You cause was better suited for a year ago. The cause failed then and any attempt to do it now is merely wasting your time.

Accept the slug.

Move on with life.

tell that to the isles fans who in less than 2 years was able to harpoon fisherman to the graveyard. so it can be done after the fact.

big difference here is they didnt sell jack of the fisherman logo, that had a big part to do with it. the sabres are the NUMBER ONE selling jersey/hat/shirt, what have you on nhl.com.

And Jack was the #4 selling jersey in the NHL of a BAD team in 1996.

had they been a good team, it would have been tops in the league in sales.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

Here is a very rough outline of how much better a blue logo would be on the white jersey...This is old, thanks for the memories Marty!

John is working on something much more professional and illustrative of his logo on the current Sabres jersey.

just a simple logo change makes that jersey look so much better. i'd even probably consider buying that jersey, had that logo been put on it.