University of Denver mascot controversy

[Discrim]

From this perspective, the old Boone figure is one that does not reflect the broad diversity of the DU community and is not an image that many of today's women, persons of color, international students and faculty, and others can easily relate to as defining the pioneering spirit.

A hawk/cobra/frisbee is much more relatable. When I see a hawk/cobra/frisbee, I think "pioneer."

I recall watching UW @ DU games in recent years, and the frisbee hawk was the center ice logo. In spite of that fact, I could never tell exactly what it was supposed to be until a few years ago. I also recall that some big leaguer said that Sean Casey was the slowest person he'd ever seen who had perfect running form. In that vein, I've thought Denver's saucer hawk is arguably the cleanest bad logo I've ever seen.

[roxfan00]

From this perspective, the old Boone figure is one that does not reflect the broad diversity of the DU community and is not an image that many of today's women, persons of color, international students and faculty, and others can easily relate to as defining the pioneering spirit.

A hawk/cobra/frisbee is much more relatable. When I see a hawk/cobra/frisbee, I think "pioneer."

I recall watching UW @ DU games in recent years, and the frisbee hawk was the center ice logo. In spite of that fact, I could never tell exactly what it was supposed to be until a few years ago. I also recall that some big leaguer said that Sean Casey was the slowest person he'd ever seen who had perfect running form. In that vein, I've thought Denver's saucer hawk is arguably the cleanest bad logo I've ever seen.

Good thing they changed the center ice logo to the "Denver" wordmark.

[Guest Puck Swami]

Controversey now being moving from campus into Denver local news...

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?sto...3&catid=188

[EatSleepJeep]

From a logo standpoint, how DO you represent a Pioneer?

You could update the "Boone" but it sounds like there's no way a genocidal white guy that also killed bears as a toddler.

Perhaps just use a coonskin cap? Pretty lame all by itself.

Other images of pioneer-related things:

-Musket? Good luck getting a logo of a gun after VT.

-Covered Wagon? Oklahoma has that image locked up.

-Campfire? no

-Tent? no

-Fort? and no

Really, what is a good logo for a PIONEER?

[Spearhead]

That Boone logo is exceptionally lame, never mind the controversy around it.

This is a more legitimate reason for dropping Boone than the one the chancellor of the college gave.

[roxfan00]

Is Boone the son of Maxie The Miner?

[Guest Puck Swami]

This issue is a more complex that just a logo. It helps to understand the context for the decision. It is

typical of what happens on campuses when Universities try to be 'moral exemplars' and creators of 'mini-utopias' that shield people from the real world instead of pleasing the majority of constituents.

Having watched this situation develop for the last few years, it's clear to me the Chancellor Coombe and his administration have poured a lot money and effort into making DU a more diverse campus since the Princeton Review article came out 4 or 5 years ago that ranked DU among the 'least diverse institutions'. With that kind of recent heavy commitment to diversity initiatives, and some pot-stirring 'faculty of color association' members who believe Boone (or any other Western Pioneer) as a symbol of genocide to the Native Americans pressuring against him, Coombe was caught in between a need to please his faculty/diversity commitment and the 87% of students, alumni and community members surveyed that don't care about Native American concerns and just want a western looking pioneer mascot.

If you look at his decision, I think he tried to please both. He tried to please the diversity minority by saying no to Boone's official return, and yes to the students and alumni by letting them use Boone on their own. He was bound to have controversey either way.

[winghaz]

The North Dakota Capitol Grounds in Bismarck has a statue called the Pioneer Family. Here is the link to the photo:

Pioneer Family

Now, I hate to say it, but I think I see something within that statue that would be an acceptable logo to EVERYONE: A wagon wheel.

Oops. Wait. Wagon wheels are offensive to tree-huggers who object to the wood being used. Darn. I guess we're just going to have to be politically incorrect and go with Boone.

Oh, by the way, were there really women or people of color who objected to Boone?

[illwauk]

Let's not BS ourselves here. If Boone wasn't "offensive," the only people who would even care that he was retired are the CCSLC. And even then, we'd be saying it was about time since he looks like something that was drawn up in a kindergarten art class in the 60's. Colleges change their logos, mascots and nicknames (and even their administrative names) all the time. Yet no one cares about "respecting history" until the logo in question is one that's "offensive." Why? Because the only people having a hissyfit over it are a VOCAL MINORITY (since everyone seems to love buzzwords) of people who want offensive for the sake of being offensive.

This reminds me of the morons who are all about "preserving history" at Marquette, yet conveniently forget that before they were the Warriors, they were the Hilltoppers. And before that, they were the Golden Avalanche. Why not go back to one of those names if it really is about "history?"

[Spearhead]

Let's not BS ourselves here. If Boone wasn't "offensive," the only people who would even care that he was retired are the CCSLC. And even then, we'd be saying it was about time since he looks like something that was drawn up in a kindergarten art class in the 60's. Colleges change their logos, mascots and nicknames (and even their administrative names) all the time. Yet no one cares about "respecting history" until the logo in question is one that's "offensive." Why? Because the only people having a hissyfit over it are a VOCAL MINORITY (since everyone seems to love buzzwords) of people who want offensive for the sake of being offensive.

This reminds me of the morons who are all about "preserving history" at Marquette, yet conveniently forget that before they were the Warriors, they were the Hilltoppers. And before that, they were the Golden Avalanche. Why not go back to one of those names if it really is about "history?"

The short answer to this is, yes, the motives for why people do things matters.

As for calling people you disagree with "morons," well, you might want to work on your low threshold for tolerance.

[illwauk]

You have a better name for people who claim to be about preserving history while conveniently slicing out significant chunks of it?

Mind you, this is from someone who is all for Marquette calling themselves the Warriors again. I just refuse to align myself with people who are backwards enough to rally around a character called "Willie Wampum" as a source of pride.

As far as Boone, I'm not aware of any organized efforts to get rid of him (that aren't based on secondhand info or pure speculation). But that doesn't stop people from accusing the cause to be an elaborate underground scheme by some anonymous liberal boogeymen just so they have an excuse to politicize it themselves. It's ridiculous.

[sappy13]

The "tyranny of the minority". Once again another pin head college administrator does his/her ( notice how I included ""her" so as not to offend women) part in ensuring that all students are indoctrinated into believing that they're victims or, if you're white, you're the victimizer.

There's no question that todays colleges and universities are bastions of intolerance. Anyone remember when Columbia welcomed

the Iranian ambassador to the UN with open arms and was treated with reverance and respect by the student body? Of course, that same student body attacked and shouted down the leader of the Minute Men when he spoke at Columbia.

[Wheelhouse]

Oh, by the way, were there really women or people of color who objected to Boone?

Yes. Even women and people of color can think a mascot sucks. It doesn't always have to do with the gender or color of a mascot, either. They are also allowed to have an opinion on most other things.

[Spearhead]

As far as Boone, I'm not aware of any organized efforts to get rid of him (that aren't based on secondhand info or pure speculation). But that doesn't stop people from accusing the cause to be an elaborate underground scheme by some anonymous liberal boogeymen just so they have an excuse to politicize it themselves. It's ridiculous.

Did you read the chancellor's letter?

[Guest Puck Swami]

The most serious objection to Boone is a small group of Native American faculty, who find western pioneers offensive as "perpetrators of genocide."

The big reason Chancellor Coombe even listened to them is because DU has taken a lot of heat in the past for not being a very diverse school, and with a $40,000 per year price tag, minorities are hard to find. DU has put a lot of money into diversity programs in the few past years, and he likely didn't want to appear soft on his diversity committment.

[winghaz]

Oh, by the way, were there really women or people of color who objected to Boone?

Yes. Even women and people of color can think a mascot sucks. It doesn't always have to do with the gender or color of a mascot, either. They are also allowed to have an opinion on most other things.

I think you missed my question. I didn't ask if women or people of color can think a mascot sucks. Of course they can. My question, considering the outpouring of support Boone got, was WERE there any people, besides rich liberal whiney white folks who think having a mascot such as Boone is offensive, who objected to Boone. If so, how many? And do they represent their gender, color or creed? Let's find out about these things instead of just spurting out that Boone may be objectionable.

If there is a sizeable minority who want Boone gone, then keep him gone. If not, bring him back.

[Wheelhouse]

I think you missed my question. I didn't ask if women or people of color can think a mascot sucks.

Oh, by the way, were there really women or people of color who objected to Boone?

I don't think I missed it, I think you probably could've phrased it a little better. Obviously you're not dumb and I was having a little fun with words, mostly because I think the point you're making is irrelevant.

Pedantic semantics aside, the problem is this: it was determined all the way back in 1998 that Boone was outdated, and the decision was made to move forward with a new mascot. If you want to bring Boone back, you have to reverse that decision and convince the university that a mascot which was created in 1968 and was considered unfasionable thirty years later is now relevant and deserves to be the face of the university once again.

If you're making that argument, you don't get to only say "well, was anyone actually offended by him?" That's not a valid argument. No one in this thread has convinced me there's a reason to bring him back. The only semi-logical point anyone has brought up is "Boone is more representative of a pioneer than a dumb hawk-thing." So what? The fact that the new logo sucks isn't an excuse to bring one back that is outdated. Right? How about introducing a new logo? I actually think the wagon wheel is a great idea.

This whole argument has mainly been "well the liberals have taken all the character out of everything, everything's gotta be PC," and has resulted in all sorts of angry hyperbolic conjecture being thrown into an innocent, dumb movement to bring back an outdated mascot. I'm more interested in seeing how many people here actually think that Boone, if created and introduced in 2008, would be a good representation of their university or alma mater.

[mfoster]

You have a better name for people who claim to be about preserving history while conveniently slicing out significant chunks of it?

Ethnic cleansers? That's the case for ridding NCAA schools of Native American names/mascots.

[Guest Puck Swami]

Oh, by the way, were there really women or people of color who objected to Boone?

Yes. Even women and people of color can think a mascot sucks. It doesn't always have to do with the gender or color of a mascot, either. They are also allowed to have an opinion on most other things.

I think you missed my question. I didn't ask if women or people of color can think a mascot sucks. Of course they can. My question, considering the outpouring of support Boone got, was WERE there any people, besides rich liberal whiney white folks who think having a mascot such as Boone is offensive, who objected to Boone. If so, how many? And do they represent their gender, color or creed? Let's find out about these things instead of just spurting out that Boone may be objectionable.

If there is a sizeable minority who want Boone gone, then keep him gone. If not, bring him back.

A small number (less than 10) faculty of color initiated the opposition, and they probably have a few hundred followers. When the University ran a internet poll, of the 4,500 responses, Boone was voted favorable or better by 87% to 13% against. That figure is probably close to the truth as we"ll get.

[Gothamite]

It would be the first time ever that an Internet poll got "close to the truth."