Cubs to retire number 31

[MDC]

Just found this, and I dont think anybody has mentioned it yet.

The Cubs are retiring number 31 for both Ferguson Jenkins and Greg Maddux. I know Fergie Jenkins for sure deserves it, and of course Maddux does to (although not necessarily during his stints with the cubs) and I think this is a pretty cool idea. Also, pretty coincidental that both players were so great. Just wanted to hear what others thought.

Heres the link to the article: http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2009/03/cubs_31.php

[Billy B]

Fergie Jenkins definately deserves it, but i wish they didn't put Maddux's name on it also. Maddux was great and definately deserves to have his number retired, but with the Braves. But the Cubs were kind of in a hard spot if they retired just Fergie's number, so I see why they included Maddux.

[The_Admiral]

If you have an inkling that one of your great players is Cooperstown-bound, you should probably hold the number out of circulation till retiring it, if you're one of those teams that says it has standards for retiring numbers. Then again, maybe the whole cocaine thing sort of cast some doubt on Fergie's Hall bid, so I would understand that.

I have no problem with anyone wearing Sosa's #21. They should hold off on 34 for a while, just in case.

To make this a greater Retired Numbers thread, isn't it unreal that the Tigers didn't retire 3 for Alan Trammell?

[JayJaxon]

I think it is a nice gesture to include Maddux, although there is no doubt that his number will be retired in Atlanta, along with Smoltz, Glavine, and Chipper. The Cubs should have known Fergie was bound for the hall, but they righted the ship with this deal. If anyone else deserved to wear that number as a Cub, I suppose it would be Maddux.

[patsox]

I could see the Red Sox having this kind of fiasco with Evans and Ramirez sharing 24. I hope to god this never happens though. If either one should get the number its Manny, no matter what he did to the team IMO.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Neither player is quite up to the established standards of previously retired Cubs numbers. Banks, Williams, Santo and Sandberg either played all or all but very little of their careers with the Cubs. All but Santo is in the Hall of Fame, but I think it was right for the Cubs to change their policy and decide who to celebrate on their team before the writers did for the whole league.

That said, I always thought Fergie deserved it for what he did as a Cub. That run of 20 wins is amazing. Not sure Maddux does, since he won a Cy Young and then left for the Braves and his greatest success -- although grabbing the 300W and 3000K milestones in his second stint at least helps. He'll go to the Hall as a Brave and rightly so. It seems the Cubs have tried everything to try to fix a front-office mistake that cost them 10+ years of Maddux, but this won't do it either. If anything, it will be a daily reminder.

Also, they probably should have never given Maddux 31 in the first place. They need to do a better job of keeping numbers out of rotation. You don't have to retire it immediately, just hold it back for a while.

This symbolizes the Cubs' first foray into celebrating a great player that made their mark elsewhere (it falls somewhere between Nolan Ryan-Rangers and Wade Boggs-Rays). I suppose that was inevitable in today's MLB world. (Does this give Andre Dawson a shot if he makes the Hall? Who knows?)

It's a tough call and I'm curious to see if they hang two flags or just one. Somehow it seems more appropriate to put them both on one, since each played roughly half their career with the Cubs. But they'll probably go with two. It'll keep it even on the flag poles.

[floydnimrod]

Neither player is quite up to the established standards of previously retired Cubs numbers. Banks, Williams, Santo and Sandberg either played all or all but very little of their careers with the Cubs. All but Santo is in the Hall of Fame, but I think it was right for the Cubs to change their policy and decide who to celebrate on their team before the writers did for the whole league.

That said, I always thought Fergie deserved it for what he did as a Cub. That run of 20 wins is amazing. Not sure Maddux does, since he won a Cy Young and then left for the Braves and his greatest success -- although grabbing the 300W and 3000K milestones in his second stint at least helps. He'll go to the Hall as a Brave and rightly so. It seems the Cubs have tried everything to try to fix a front-office mistake that cost them 10+ years of Maddux, but this won't do it either. If anything, it will be a daily reminder.

Also, they probably should have never given Maddux 31 in the first place. They need to do a better job of keeping numbers out of rotation. You don't have to retire it immediately, just hold it back for a while.

This symbolizes the Cubs' first foray into celebrating a great player that made their mark elsewhere (it falls somewhere between Nolan Ryan-Rangers and Wade Boggs-Rays). I suppose that was inevitable in today's MLB world. (Does this give Andre Dawson a shot if he makes the Hall? Who knows?)

It's a tough call and I'm curious to see if they hang two flags or just one. Somehow it seems more appropriate to put them both on one, since each played roughly half their career with the Cubs. But they'll probably go with two. It'll keep it even on the flag poles.

The Reds do that with numbers 11, 13, and 14 (Barry Larkin, Cesar Geronimo, and Pete Rose).

I've never really thought that Maddux was all that great as a Cub. But I guess they don't want to disrespect his career as a whole.

[Brass]

I could see the Red Sox having this kind of fiasco with Evans and Ramirez sharing 24. I hope to god this never happens though. If either one should get the number its Evans, no matter what he did to the team IMO.

Fixed for accuracy.

[oddball]

I could see the Red Sox having this kind of fiasco with Evans and Ramirez sharing 24. I hope to god this never happens though. If either one should get the number its Evans, no matter what he did to the team IMO.

Fixed for accuracy.

I don't forsee the Red Sox retiring 24 for Manny, then again, I don't think and I loved Evans, that they'll retire it for him. To me I don't see either one of them getting their numbers retired. As far as Fergie or Maddux not as worthy of getting their numbers retired. They both played 10 years with the Cubs and Fergie only had 3 seasons of less than twenty wins and one of them was a 14 win season. Maddux spent 10 years with the Cubs and had a little under half his 355 wins with the Cubs, so what the heck do they have to do to get their numbers retired? Look up their numbers and stop glorifying Ron Santo. Santo was good, and his numbers back him that he was good, but Fergie and Maddux are as much deserving of getting their numbers retired as Santo is.

[The_Admiral]

Um, what does "glorifying Ron Santo" have to do with Ferguson Jenkins?

[infrared41]

To make this a greater Retired Numbers thread, isn't it unreal that the Tigers didn't retire 3 for Alan Trammell?

I agree. If you're retiring Willie Horton's number then you better retire Tram's. I'm not knocking Willie but let's face it, Trammell was one of the best shortstops of his era.

Tram's career was every bit as good if not better than Willie's.

On topic, #31 with the Cubs will always be Fergie Jenkins to me. When I think of Maddux I think of the Braves. Period.

[The_Admiral]

I'd easily put Trammell and Whitaker in the pantheon of Detroit Tigers franchise players, and since he spent all twenty seasons of his career with the Tigers, it should be a no-brainer. Whitaker too. Trammell has to be in the top 10 or 15 shortstops of all time, right? I wonder how badly his managing stint has hurt his Coopertown bid.

[CubsFanBudMan]

As far as Fergie or Maddux not as worthy of getting their numbers retired. They both played 10 years with the Cubs and Fergie only had 3 seasons of less than twenty wins and one of them was a 14 win season. Maddux spent 10 years with the Cubs and had a little under half his 355 wins with the Cubs, so what the heck do they have to do to get their numbers retired? Look up their numbers and stop glorifying Ron Santo. Santo was good, and his numbers back him that he was good, but Fergie and Maddux are as much deserving of getting their numbers retired as Santo is.

What do they have to do? Well, they used to have to be career Cubs, not play 10 years. This signifies a change in the Cubs' standards. I'm not necessarily saying they are lowering them, but it used to be -- as evidenced by the four players honored at this time -- that you were a player that was pretty much exclusively known as a Cub. Ernie Banks is the only one of the four who was actually only a Cub, but no one associates Santo with the White Sox, Williams with the A's or Sandberg with the Phillies. It's a very exclusive club and would remain so in this era if they kept the standards where they were at, especially if Santo was the only Hall of Fame exception. Guys just don't play for one team anymore.

I'd argue that most people associate Jenkins with the Cubs even though he spent a good chunk of his career with the Rangers and Red Sox. But despite the Cubs' best efforts, Maddux will be remembered as a Brave. And it's their own fault.

These are the first two pitchers to ever have their numbers retired by the Cubs. Greg Maddux is 13th all-time in Cubs wins, two behind Rich Reuschel, and fifth in Ks, again right behind Reuschel. Fergie is fifth in wins and tops the K list. I liked Reuschel, but he's not number-retiring worthy.

So, is Maddux an all-time Cubs great? Probably not. He's an all-time great who played for the Cubs. If they want to honor that now, I'm fine with it. Their choice. It's just that up until now they hadn't.

[The_Admiral]

Rick Reuschel is a good argument for not retiring numbers. I'm sold.

[Cujo]

When I think of Northiside legends, Maddux and Jenkinds don't exaclty spring to mind. Granted, I wasn't around when Fergie played so I'll give him a pass on this one, but I can tell you for fact that players such as Andre Dawson, Mark Grace and Sammy Sosa are just as deserving to have their numbers retired by the Cubs, if not more deserving, than Greg Maddux.

Let's see now... If I recall, the guy bailed on the Cubs just as he entered his prime back in 1992, then came back a dozen years later for a useless 1.5 seasons at the tail end of his career. Not exactly what I consider to be worthy of having one's jersey retired.