Honoring past leagues with replicas....

[illwauk]

Yes, I'm consistent enough in my PoV that I think Negro League throwbacks should be avoided as well. There's my standard argument that the Negro League teams were separate entities that have no lineage with MLB clubs, and thus they shouldn't be wearing Negro League throwbacks.

There's also the argument that the Negro League isn't something that should be honoured. That league's entire existence was predicated on social and racial injustice/bigotry. Celebrate the great players that came out of the league, sure. To actually celebrate the league itself though? I disagree with that. It's memory is a remnant of a shameful period of pro baseball history.

True as that may be, I think there's a level of pride associated with the fact that despite adequate facilities, equipment, etc; that so many Nergo League teams were able to be competitively equal (and sometimes even better than) the Major League clubs.

But I have to say I'm surprised at all the sudden disdain for throwbacks around here. Of course, herd mentality tends to run rampant around here nowadays (see: "monochrome" and "grey masks")

Still, I think it's cool that we get to see live versions of so many unis that would normally be reduced to grainy (and oftentime black and white) video footage. Yes, some teams do go overboard, but its led to the fact that we now have more choices than ever when it comes to the type of team gear we can buy, and I think that alone is worth the occasional headaches.

[IceCap]

I have no problem with throwbacks. I just ask that teams only throw back to uniforms they used to wear. I don't think that's so unreasonable.

Also, I think Saintsfan's reaction to this NFL season may have been slightly over the top. It's an anniversary year, and things will be back to normal next season.

Now the NBA, they REALLY need to cut back on the throwbacks and special event uniforms.

[Saintsfan]

Also, I think Saintsfan's reaction to this NFL season may have been slightly over the top. It's an anniversary year, and things will be back to normal next season.

In that case, stick them in throwbacks for the whole year. Its the 'confusion' that it all causes that us what I am not keen on. Like I say the Broncos have worn 5 different uniforms in 6 starts this season.

Personally I would be a fan if saying to NFL teams 'lets go back to one home uniform and one road uniform, no mixing and matching, no alternates'.

[maz]

NHL teams honoring former AHL or defunct NHL teams in their city isn't a bad idea.

The pens could rep the Pirates or Hornets (at risk of looking exactly like the redwings), the Flyers could wear the Quakers, etc. etc.

[The_Admiral]

I'm surprised at all the sudden disdain for throwbacks around here. Of course, herd mentality tends to run rampant around here nowadays (see: "monochrome" and "grey masks")

I don't think there's that much disdain for throwbacks here at all. It's like five or six guys (I'm one of them) who are being disproportionately loud.

NHL teams honoring former AHL or defunct NHL teams in their city isn't a bad idea.

The pens could rep the Pirates or Hornets (at risk of looking exactly like the redwings),

No, if the Penguins wear a uniform that makes them look exactly like the Red Wings, then it is a bad idea.

[Saintsfan]

I'm surprised at all the sudden disdain for throwbacks around here. Of course, herd mentality tends to run rampant around here nowadays (see: "monochrome" and "grey masks")

I don't think there's that much disdain for throwbacks here at all. It's like five or six guys (I'm one of them) who are being disproportionately loud.

I quite like seeing throwback jerseys. But there are two things. One, the wearing of different uniforms is getting out of hand. Two, make them and sell them as replicas for sure, but you don't need to be wearing them in game.

Incidentally I have never quite see the fuss about grey facemasks, and I think white 'monochromes' are fine, but don't care for colored monochromes. I think that what happens on some of these divisive issues is that the board tends to split down the middle a bit. To me thats not a problem. I don't think its a herd mentality, I think its spirited people having an opinion.

[IceCap]

Also, I think Saintsfan's reaction to this NFL season may have been slightly over the top. It's an anniversary year, and things will be back to normal next season.

In that case, stick them in throwbacks for the whole year. Its the 'confusion' that it all causes that us what I am not keen on. Like I say the Broncos have worn 5 different uniforms in 6 starts this season.

Personally I would be a fan if saying to NFL teams 'lets go back to one home uniform and one road uniform, no mixing and matching, no alternates'.

I understand what you're saying, and if this was an every season occurrence I would agree with you. For just one season though, to celebrate a big anniversary, I don't see the problem. The NFL is usually very strict about this sort of thing, and once the AFL 50th Anniversary thing is out of the way you'll see the league go back to mandating only one alternate or throwback a team at most.

Though I do agree with you that I would like to see the pants/jersey swapping toned down.

NHL teams honoring former AHL or defunct NHL teams in their city isn't a bad idea.

The pens could rep the Pirates or Hornets (at risk of looking exactly like the redwings), the Flyers could wear the Quakers, etc. etc.

Why though? The Penguins were never the Pirates or Hornets. They have no connection to those teams. Besides, a Pirates throwback would look like a MLB crossover and the Hornets throwback would, as you said, make them look like the Red Wings.

Teams need to focus on promoting their own history and identity, not promoting the history of dead teams.

What's the appeal anyway? The history of the Penguins is worth celebrating. The history of the Pirates NHL team is....not.

[BaltimoreFan]

Why though? The Penguins were never the Pirates or Hornets. They have no connection to those teams.

Except there is a connection between those teams, the fan base. The same fan base rooted for both teams. Yea, I know its not the exact people, but it is the same group. I see no problem with a team honoring the past teams of its city with an occasional throwback. I feel its a slap in the face of past cities and fans when a another city's team wears its past team's uniforms. I'm willing to let it go for the AFL anniversary because it is a special occasion. But I don't think the Titans should wear Oiler throwbacks on any other occasion.

With that said I don't think the Heat should wear Floridians, if the NBA were to do a similar ABA promotion. It should just honor the teams in the merger. But I don't have a problem with them wearing it any other time.

[Waleslax]

I remember the Bulls wearing Chicago Stags uni's when I first moved to Chicago. According to this article, 10 other teams did the same. Anyone know who the other 10 teams were?

http://www.nba.com/bulls/tickets/hardwood_0506.html

The the Stags played 3 seasons in the BAA, but are evidently considered as the Bulls precursor due to the fact that they laid the groundwork for the NBA to come to Chicago.

I have seen the White Sox, Royals, Brewers and Giants all wear Negro League throwbacks. I am pretty sure the Royals do it yearly since the Negro League Hall of Fame is in Kansas City. I once saw the Brewers wear Milwaukee Braves throwbacks. To add to the confusion, I also was at a Cubs throwback game against the Atlanta Braves who were playing as the... Milwaukee Braves. I have never seen the Brewers do a Seattly Pilots thing though.

Oh, and don't forget the Yankees who are constantly throwing out "throwback" jerseys... though it's hard to tell.

To add to the discussion, I have to offer up my favorite crossover throwback jersey:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/milwaukee%20brewers%20throwback%20jersey/cdnuniguy/Wearing%20That%205/adbrewersgoalie.jpg

[Sodboy13]

I have never seen the Brewers do a Seattly Pilots thing though.

They haven't, to my knowledge, though the Mariners have worn Pilots throwbacks. And when they have, it's been a version that's more true to the original that what Mitchell & Ness puts out, and most players have worn it old-school - going high-cuffed with full stirrups. It's a sight to behold.

To add to the discussion, I have to offer up my favorite crossover throwback jersey:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/milwaukee%20brewers%20throwback%20jersey/cdnuniguy/Wearing%20That%205/adbrewersgoalie.jpg

Meh, I still say my idea was better.

[IceCap]

Why though? The Penguins were never the Pirates or Hornets. They have no connection to those teams.

Except there is a connection between those teams, the fan base. The same fan base rooted for both teams. Yea, I know its not the exact people, but it is the same group. I see no problem with a team honoring the past teams of its city with an occasional throwback. I feel its a slap in the face of past cities and fans when a another city's team wears its past team's uniforms. I'm willing to let it go for the AFL anniversary because it is a special occasion. But I don't think the Titans should wear Oiler throwbacks on any other occasion.

With that said I don't think the Heat should wear Floridians, if the NBA were to do a similar ABA promotion. It should just honor the teams in the merger. But I don't have a problem with them wearing it any other time.

I'll agree to disagree then.

[The_Admiral]

To add to the confusion, I also was at a Cubs throwback game against the Atlanta Braves who were playing as the... Milwaukee Braves.

Was that in June '08? They were the Boston Braves. 1948 day.

[swilson160]

Some people are taking this WAY too seriously. Sports are supposed to be fun for the fans, and fans obviously enjoy throwback games; the teams wouldn't have them, and the fans wouldn't buy so many jerseys, if they didn't. So what if a team wears six uniforms in a season? So what if the throwback is to a different team in a different league? Does this change what they're doing on the field/ice/court? No. The only thing I take seriously is the product the teams put out. The rest is trivial.

I like jerseys and I like seeing new/different/old jerseys, even if they are hideous (I'm looking in the direction of Mile High). I say the more throwbacks the better.

[Swampee]

The WHA was, by all accounts, a failed league. There's no "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers......

I disagree.

The Oilers, Hurricanes and Avalanche have all won Stanley Cups with roots in the WHA.

As far as having "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers, I also disagree:

Mark Messier - NHL HoF

Mike Gartner - NHL HoF

Jacques Demers - Stanley Cup Winner

Barry Melrose

Robbie Ftorek

[Swampee]

For what it's worth, the Rays (and before, the Devil Rays) have done "throwbacks" to former professional teams in the Bay area, such as the Tampa Tarpons and the St. Pete Pelicans.

I cannot for the life of me find a Pelicans 5950 anywhere around here, and I would love to have one. Those colors are beautiful.

They look even better when they are worn correctly (not pajama style) and stirrups are worn.

But, as usual, today's players aren't concerned about authenticity.

[IceCap]

The WHA was, by all accounts, a failed league. There's no "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers......

I disagree.

The Oilers, Hurricanes and Avalanche have all won Stanley Cups with roots in the WHA.

Yes, they have WHA roots. All of their major accomplishments worth mentioning, however, happened during their NHL eras, and in the case of the 'Canes and Avs they weren't even in their original WHA cities.

And yes, the league was a failure. Only four teams made the move to the NHL, and while the league was in business they were lucky if they managed to keep a single team in the same location for more then a season. It was a mess. The WHA was no American Football League. Why people always insist it was is beyond me.

As far as having "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers, I also disagree:

Mark Messier - NHL HoF

Mike Gartner - NHL HoF

Jacques Demers - Stanley Cup Winner

Barry Melrose

Robbie Ftorek

Mark Messier- Career accomplishments include stellar NHL all-star seasons on the NHL Edmonton Oilers, New York Rangers, and to a lesser degree the Vancouver Canucks. Six time Stanley Cup Champion.

Mike Gartner- 19 NHL seasons, 1 WHA season. Several stellar NHL all-star seasons. Holds or co-holds a number of NHL and Washington Capitals records.

Jacques Demers- Biggest accomplishment was coaching the Montréal Canadiens, the perennial NHL franchise, to the Stanley Cup in 1993.

Barry Melrose- Best known for coaching the Wayne Gretzky-lead Los Angeles Kings to the same finals against the Canadiens.

Robbie Ftorek- An average playing career in the WHA, NHL, and AHL. Best known for being the only head coach to be fired by two separate teams in the final days of a winning season.

Really, why you would include Ftorek is beyond me. Other then list padding that is.

As for the rest you mentioned, did you sense a pattern? Every noteworthy accomplishment in their careers came during their time in the NHL. At best the WHA is a footnote in every one of their careers.

[Swampee]

The WHA was, by all accounts, a failed league. There's no "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers......

I disagree.

The Oilers, Hurricanes and Avalanche have all won Stanley Cups with roots in the WHA.

Yes, they have WHA roots. All of their major accomplishments worth mentioning, however, happened during their NHL eras, and in the case of the 'Canes and Avs they weren't even in their original WHA cities.

And yes, the league was a failure. Only four teams made the move to the NHL, and while the league was in business they were lucky if they managed to keep a single team in the same location for more then a season. It was a mess. The WHA was no American Football League. Why people always insist it was is beyond me.

As far as having "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers, I also disagree:

Mark Messier - NHL HoF

Mike Gartner - NHL HoF

Jacques Demers - Stanley Cup Winner

Barry Melrose

Robbie Ftorek

Mark Messier- Career accomplishments include stellar NHL all-star seasons on the NHL Edmonton Oilers, New York Rangers, and to a lesser degree the Vancouver Canucks. Six time Stanley Cup Champion.

Mike Gartner- 19 NHL seasons, 1 WHA season. Several stellar NHL all-star seasons. Holds or co-holds a number of NHL and Washington Capitals records.

Jacques Demers- Biggest accomplishment was coaching the Montréal Canadiens, the perennial NHL franchise, to the Stanley Cup in 1993.

Barry Melrose- Best known for coaching the Wayne Gretzky-lead Los Angeles Kings to the same finals against the Canadiens.

Robbie Ftorek- An average playing career in the WHA, NHL, and AHL. Best known for being the only head coach to be fired by two separate teams in the final days of a winning season.

Really, why you would include Ftorek is beyond me. Other then list padding that is.

As for the rest you mentioned, did you sense a pattern? Every noteworthy accomplishment in their careers came during their time in the NHL. At best the WHA is a footnote in every one of their careers.

My entire post was just to point out that the teams and players that I listed had their roots in the WHA, as everybody has to get started somewhere. That is all, no more than that.

As far as Ftorek, he was a WHA MVP.

[Matito]

For what it's worth, the Rays (and before, the Devil Rays) have done "throwbacks" to former professional teams in the Bay area, such as the Tampa Tarpons and the St. Pete Pelicans.

I cannot for the life of me find a Pelicans 5950 anywhere around here, and I would love to have one. Those colors are beautiful.

They look even better when they are worn correctly (not pajama style) and stirrups are worn.

But, as usual, today's players aren't concerned about authenticity.

I know. That's one thing that bugs me about the team. We don't have anybody who wears stirrups. Most teams have at least one or two.

[ProvidenceRI]

I love logos and uniforms from all eras.

The premise of graphic design is to communicate ideas to audience (or something like that =)). So, when a team dons a uniform, it tells me that the people wearing uniform X are on team X.

So, it really annoys me to watch team X wear the uniform of team Y. Really annoys me. Really!

So, I don't mind throwbacks to the same team name and name of a different era, but different team name and clubs are silly.

So, I don't want to see:

-The Houston Astros wearing Houston Colt 45s unis

-Baltimore Orioles wearing Baltimore Black Sox unis

-New Jersey Nets wearing New York Nets unis

I don't mind seeing:

-Milwaukee Brewers in 1987 throwback unis

-Detroit Lions in 1950s throwback unis

Just my two cents.

[IceCap]

The WHA was, by all accounts, a failed league. There's no "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers......

I disagree.

The Oilers, Hurricanes and Avalanche have all won Stanley Cups with roots in the WHA.

Yes, they have WHA roots. All of their major accomplishments worth mentioning, however, happened during their NHL eras, and in the case of the 'Canes and Avs they weren't even in their original WHA cities.

And yes, the league was a failure. Only four teams made the move to the NHL, and while the league was in business they were lucky if they managed to keep a single team in the same location for more then a season. It was a mess. The WHA was no American Football League. Why people always insist it was is beyond me.

As far as having "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers, I also disagree:

Mark Messier - NHL HoF

Mike Gartner - NHL HoF

Jacques Demers - Stanley Cup Winner

Barry Melrose

Robbie Ftorek

Mark Messier- Career accomplishments include stellar NHL all-star seasons on the NHL Edmonton Oilers, New York Rangers, and to a lesser degree the Vancouver Canucks. Six time Stanley Cup Champion.

Mike Gartner- 19 NHL seasons, 1 WHA season. Several stellar NHL all-star seasons. Holds or co-holds a number of NHL and Washington Capitals records.

Jacques Demers- Biggest accomplishment was coaching the Montréal Canadiens, the perennial NHL franchise, to the Stanley Cup in 1993.

Barry Melrose- Best known for coaching the Wayne Gretzky-lead Los Angeles Kings to the same finals against the Canadiens.

Robbie Ftorek- An average playing career in the WHA, NHL, and AHL. Best known for being the only head coach to be fired by two separate teams in the final days of a winning season.

Really, why you would include Ftorek is beyond me. Other then list padding that is.

As for the rest you mentioned, did you sense a pattern? Every noteworthy accomplishment in their careers came during their time in the NHL. At best the WHA is a footnote in every one of their careers.

My entire post was just to point out that the teams and players that I listed had their roots in the WHA, as everybody has to get started somewhere. That is all, no more than that.

As far as Ftorek, he was a WHA MVP.

Is that enough to qualify as a "legacy" though? Not really. The AFL managed to compete with the NFL, had stable franchises, and helped revolutionize pro football with the Super Bowl. Not only that, they managed to negotiate the NFL merger on their own terms, carrying over all existing AFL teams into the NFL.

The WHA was a failed start-up league that was unable to keep most of its teams in one city over a season. Some teams folded or moved before playing a game in their "new" locations. The league was a failure, and when it died what little it did have was absorbed into NHL where those few diamonds in the rough (both teams and players) came into their own as NHL entities.

No sir, I don't any see much, if anything, that qualifies as a legacy.