Honoring past leagues with replicas....

[jhans203]

Obviously this past year the NFL's original AFL Franchises have been commemorating the AFL's 50th Anniversary. Much like the NFL's 75th, NHL's 75th and NBA's 50th a good number of teams celebrated with throwback jerseys. As a sports and logo nut, I love it. Whether it's league or franchise anniversaries, throwbacks seem to be a great way to celebrate in sports.

Within the next 3-5 years certain milestones (40th and 50th Anniversaries) are going to be occuring that will commemorating specifically the founding of the ABA and WHA. Both leagues that had profound influence on the NBA, NHL and professional sports in general.

I think it would be neat not only if teams like the Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, San Antonio Spurs and New Jersey Nets wore throwbacks, but same with Memphis, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Minnesota, Utah, Charlotte, Miami, Golden State, Washington, etc. Because all those markets hosted ABA teams before getting NBA franchises. This would go with the NHL's WHA Franchises as well as Calgary, Phoenix, Colorado, Ottawa and Minnesota.

I would also love to see teams like the Utah Jazz honor the 40th Anniversary of the Utah Stars 1971 ABA Championship team with Stars throwback, etc.

What do all of you think? Is it overkill? Or do you love seeing throwbacks on anniversaries? What throwbacks or anniversaries would you like to see?

[BallWonk]

What do all of you think? Is it overkill? Or do you love seeing throwbacks on anniversaries? What throwbacks or anniversaries would you like to see?

Overkill? Never! In fact I prefer the tribute-to-someone-else throwback to the more common uniform-we-used-to-wear throwback. So for example, I'm much happier with the idea of Grays (or Senators) throwbacks for the Nats than with Senators throwbacks for the Twins. (I'd rather see Millers or Saints throwbacks for the Twins.)

My dream is that MLB is preparing, right now, for a throwbackapalooza to the Federal League in the 2014 and 2015 seasons.

Also, instead of those crappy stars-and-stripes hats, or the flag desecration of putting flags on uniforms, I wish MLB would mark Memorial Day and/or Independence Day and/or 9/11 with throwbacks to, say, uniforms of military teams from WWII and the like.

But the most important issue is what to call a "throwback" when your throbacking to a completely different team?

[The_Admiral]

I think it would be neat not only if teams like the Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, San Antonio Spurs and New Jersey Nets wore throwbacks, but same with Memphis, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Minnesota, Utah, Charlotte, Miami, Golden State, Washington, etc. Because all those markets hosted ABA teams before getting NBA franchises.

Yeah, and they failed, often miserably. The Memphis Tams are best left relegated to history's dustbin as "that time Charlie Finley did a half-assed job running a basketball team." The Grizzlies are crappy enough without dressing up as an even crappier team. Who remembers the Tams? Who wants to?

I would also love to see teams like the Utah Jazz honor the 40th Anniversary of the Utah Stars 1971 ABA Championship team with Stars throwback, etc.

It's a meaningless championship. Celebrating a second-league championship your organization didn't win is stupid.

What do all of you think? Is it overkill? Or do you love seeing throwbacks on anniversaries? What throwbacks or anniversaries would you like to see?

I think the Bulls should celebrate the six world championships by winning a seventh one and dressing like an NBA team.

[JH42XCC]

Maybe the Carolina Panthers honoring the Charlotte Hornets of the World Football League?

[illwauk]

I would also love to see teams like the Utah Jazz honor the 40th Anniversary of the Utah Stars 1971 ABA Championship team with Stars throwback, etc.

It's a meaningless championship. Celebrating a second-league championship your organization didn't win is stupid.

If the ABA was a second-rate league, the NBA never would've agreed to the merger.

I don't have a problem with teams throwing back to same-market organizations in leagues that were eventually absorbed into their current league. In the case of the Stars, it could be argued that Utah wouldn't have been seen as a viable place for the Jazz to move to without the Stars' success.

I also like when teams throw back to the minor league teams that played there before them. Personally, I'd love to see the Brewers throw back to the American Association club they were named after (especially when they've thrown back to damn near every other Milwaukee club that preceeded them).

[The_Admiral]

It could also be argued that the owners of the New Orleans Jazz were from Salt Lake City and were going to try it anyway. I'm not saying the original ABA was some fly-by-night operation, just that it was a level below the NBA. Wasn't it? The AFL was inferior to the NFL in the grand scheme of things, as was the WHA to the NHL.

I'm sorry. I think we've reached critical mass with NBA alternates and throwbacks. I'm alternateandthrowbacked out. There's not really a whole lot more I want to see. I want to see teams dressed as who they are right now, and if another outfit is superior to what they're supposed to wear, then figure out a way to wear that instead. Having the Hornets dress up as the New Orleans Bucs is stupid. What does that do but dilute an already tenuous brand?

[darkshadow1031]

I think it would be neat not only if teams like the Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, San Antonio Spurs and New Jersey Nets wore throwbacks, but same with Memphis, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Minnesota, Utah, Charlotte, Miami, Golden State, Washington, etc. Because all those markets hosted ABA teams before getting NBA franchises. This would go with the NHL's WHA Franchises as well as Calgary, Phoenix, Colorado, Ottawa and Minnesota.

You got me thinking about how much I would love to see teams throwing it back to the Carolina Cougars, Dallas Chaparrals, Memphis Pros, Minnesota Muskies, New Orleans Buccaneers, Oakland Oaks, Virginia Squires...

I can only dream!

[IceCap]

I'm with the admiral here.

The AFL tribute works because only the AFL teams were involved. I'd even say that the Dolphins and Bengals should have been added, seeing as this seems more of a celebration of the AFL as a whole rather then the AFL's founding (I think only the Broncos, Titans, and Jets are wearing their 1960 sets).

The NBA's ABA tribute though? Yeah, no. It doesn't work. Teams that don't actually have a connection to the league being honoured shouldn't wear throwbacks. Yes, the Tennessee Titans can wear Houston Oilers throwbacks. No, the Miami Heat cannot not wear Miami Floridians throwbacks.

And the same for the NHL. If they want to honour the legacy of the WHA (if they even are planning it, I haven't heard anything), only the teams with WHA roots should wear the throwbacks. If the 'Canes, Avs, and 'Yotes wearing Whalers, Nords, and Jets uniforms is to "painful" then perhaps they should just skip the WHA tribute all together. If they want to push it though, only those three teams, plus the Oilers, should wear WHA throwbacks.

Besides, the Ottawa Senators are to busy trying to claim the lineage of one dead team. Lets not overwhelm their efforts by trying to fake a connection to another.

So basically, I think teams that do have roots in these leagues should honour them, but trying to force it onto other teams is indeed overkill.

[BallWonk]

The AFL was inferior to the NFL in the grand scheme of things ...

Um, "No"? I don't know how the term "grand scheme of things" can really apply to a league that only lasted 10 years, but the AFL won 2 of 4 championship games against the NFL. After the merger, the former AFL won 8 of the next 10 Super Bowls.

If the AFL and NFL had been selling, say, cars rather than football games, the business press would speak of the "merger" as an AFL "takeover" of the NFL, as when a smaller but more profitable company claims to merge with but actually takes over a larger, heavily leveraged rival. This becomes clear when you start tracing the connections among the coaches with AFL roots who went on to lead the NFC to its 1980s-era dominance. In terms of corporate culture and the dominant styles of play, from the merger until at least the mid-1990s, what we call the NFL was essentially the pre-merger AFL in NFL clothing. Look at the revolutions Pete Rozelle instituted -- just about his entire playbook was taken straight from the AFL.

Delay the AFL/NFL merger by even a few years, and the merger probably never happens. Instead, the AFL expands and starts to kill off NFL franchises much like MLB and the PCL, or it expands by poaching the few financially successful NFL franchises and the rump NFL collapses entirely. Either way, the NFL doesn't survive the 1970s. Bottom line is, in just about any way that matters, from the business operation of individual teams and the league as a whole, to the quality of coaching and play, by 1968 the AFL was the superior league, and this remained true for at least a decade after the merger. In the grand scheme of things, looking across the full range of history since the AFL's founding, the NFL was inferior to the AFL.

But agreed about the out-of-control NBA throwbacks. Then again, we're talking about the NBA, so it's not like anything they do for special events can possibly make the league's uniforms any uglier in the aggregate.

[darkhaha]

The AFL was inferior to the NFL in the grand scheme of things ...

Um, "No"? I don't know how the term "grand scheme of things" can really apply to a league that only lasted 10 years, but the AFL won 2 of 4 championship games against the NFL. After the merger, the former AFL won 8 of the next 10 Super Bowls.

If the AFL and NFL had been selling, say, cars rather than football games, the business press would speak of the "merger" as an AFL "takeover" of the NFL, as when a smaller but more profitable company claims to merge with but actually takes over a larger, heavily leveraged rival. This becomes clear when you start tracing the connections among the coaches with AFL roots who went on to lead the NFC to its 1980s-era dominance. In terms of corporate culture and the dominant styles of play, from the merger until at least the mid-1990s, what we call the NFL was essentially the pre-merger AFL in NFL clothing. Look at the revolutions Pete Rozelle instituted -- just about his entire playbook was taken straight from the AFL.

Delay the AFL/NFL merger by even a few years, and the merger probably never happens. Instead, the AFL expands and starts to kill off NFL franchises much like MLB and the PCL, or it expands by poaching the few financially successful NFL franchises and the rump NFL collapses entirely. Either way, the NFL doesn't survive the 1970s. Bottom line is, in just about any way that matters, from the business operation of individual teams and the league as a whole, to the quality of coaching and play, by 1968 the AFL was the superior league, and this remained true for at least a decade after the merger. In the grand scheme of things, looking across the full range of history since the AFL's founding, the NFL was inferior to the AFL.

But agreed about the out-of-control NBA throwbacks. Then again, we're talking about the NBA, so it's not like anything they do for special events can possibly make the league's uniforms any uglier in the aggregate.

As an old AFL fan, I really want to agree with your analysis. However, there's one huge hole: You say "After the merger, the former AFL won 8 of the next 10 Super Bowls." Actually, after the merger the AFC won 8 of 10 Super Bowls. This is an important distinction, because the AFC actually contained 3 former NFL teams (the Colts, Steelers and Browns), two of which (Colts and Steelers) were responsible for 5 of those 8 Super Bowl victories... I agree that the leagues had achieved some sort of parity by the time of the merger, but I think it's quite a stretch to posit that the AFL would have put the NFL out of business.

[IceCap]

The "who would have put who out of business" talk never appealed to me because there was no way in hell the merger wasn't going to happen. The AFL proved it wasn't going to roll over and die, and that the NFL could either fight it or merge with it. Duking it out would have cost way to much money to even seriously consider. Once the AFL established itself as a real alternative there was no realistic option other then to merge.

The AFL, in that sense, achieved the most any competing league could achieve. They got a merger on the best possible terms. All the teams in, intact. Their own conference (mostly) to preserve the identity of the former league.

I'm not sure I would say the AFL was better then the NFL, but I think it's safe to say that they were on equal terms. Unlike other league mergers, like the NFL's absorption of the AAFC, the AFL managed to essentially merge with the older, more established league on their own terms.

[oddball]

Anyway, back to the original question. I thought about this with the NHL, and if they were to "honor" the WHA, you forgot Columbus honoring the Cincinnati Stingers or the Cleveland Crusaders. If Calgary was to honor a team they could go with either the Atlanta Flames which they were or they could go with the Calgary Cowboys. Yeah there are a lot actually. My favorite would be to have the Rangers go with celebrating the New York Golden Blades for the fashion queen Sean Avery.

[IceCap]

First, the Atlanta Flames were not a WHA team. The Flames are NHL through and through.

Secondly, why? The WHA was, by all accounts, a failed league. There's no "legacy" to celebrate with Cincinnati Stingers or New York Golden Blades throwbacks. Furthermore, I would object to any team wearing those uniforms as throwbacks as they no longer exist. The Golden Blades, for example, were a completley separate entity from the Rangers. So the Rangers have no business "throwing back" to them. They never were them.

[TalktoChuck]

If the NHL were to honor the WHA with throwbacks, the teams that particiapate would have to be the 'Canes (Whalers), the Avs (Nordiques), the Coyotes (Jets), and the Oilers (themselves). And that's it. Just those four and no one else. Unless you have direct ties to that league there is no reason to honor it. I personally would love to see the NHL do this and would for sure go to an Avs game in which they wore the Quebec throwbacks (as I love those uniforms). But sadly, I don't see this happening at all. The same rule as far as who would be honoring the anniversary would apply to the NBA/ABA as well. So that only the Spurs, Nuggets, Pacers, and Nets would wear throwbacks. Now I think that these teams will probably give a night to celebrate the ABA with thwobacks but as far as a whole league celebration I don't think the NBA will do it.

[Saintsfan]

Do you know what I have been thinking a bit about this, what with the AFL replicas and all that, and here is my conclusion. Teams should stop wearing throwbacks. At all. Ever. Its time to end this madness. Maybe, just maybe, the odd breaking out of throwbacks for a special anniversary, but if that happens make it for the whole year, not have this mix and match attitude to your teams identity.

I love seeing the Patriots in Red, and would love to see it full time, but its madness that in 6 weeks the Broncos have worn 5 different uniforms, the Patriots 4. If they had to wear throwbacks all year, teams might be a bit more careful about which throwbacks to wear.

The NBA is the worst of the lot. Teams seem to have about 20 different uniforms for a year nowadays. Its just ridiculous. STOP IT and STOP IT NOW.

[Matito]

For what it's worth, the Rays (and before, the Devil Rays) have done "throwbacks" to former professional teams in the Bay area, such as the Tampa Tarpons and the St. Pete Pelicans.

I cannot for the life of me find a Pelicans 5950 anywhere around here, and I would love to have one. Those colors are beautiful.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

For what it's worth, the Rays (and before, the Devil Rays) have done "throwbacks" to former professional teams in the Bay area, such as the Tampa Tarpons and the St. Pete Pelicans.

I cannot for the life of me find a Pelicans 5950 anywhere around here, and I would love to have one. Those colors are beautiful.

I call this the greatest throwback of all time. I loved the Senior League, and the this uni in particular. (The other great uni in that league was that of the West Palm Tropics.) Bravo to the Rays on this one.

No, the Miami Heat cannot not wear Miami Floridians throwbacks.

They have already done that.

Depending on the city's history, it can be very appropriate to honour a team in a past league. Even if this Miami Heat thing doesn't tickle your fancy, there's no doubt that if, let's say, the New York Red Bulls decided to sport some Cosmos throwbacks, then that would be super hot.

Also, let's remember that all Negro League throwbacks fit this category.

[IceCap]

No, the Miami Heat cannot not wear Miami Floridians throwbacks.

They have already done that.

And the Pistons for a time thought it would be a good idea to wear teal, black, and maroon. Doesn't make it right though.

Depending on the city's history, it can be very appropriate to honour a team in a past league.

I disagree. Unless the team has lineage to the older team, throwbacks should not be worn. In other words, a team's throwback options should be limited to the uniforms they themselves have worn through the years.

Even if this Miami Heat thing doesn't tickle your fancy, there's no doubt that if, let's say, the New York Red Bulls decided to sport some Cosmos throwbacks, then that would be super hot.

Still wouldn't be right, IMO. Red Bull New York (or the NY Red Bulls, whatever they call themselves) are not, nor ever were, the Cosmos. Therefore they shouldn't wear Cosmos throwbacks. They can, if they so desire, sport some nifty MestroStars threads though

Also, let's remember that all Negro League throwbacks fit this category.

Yes, I'm consistent enough in my PoV that I think Negro League throwbacks should be avoided as well. There's my standard argument that the Negro League teams were separate entities that have no lineage with MLB clubs, and thus they shouldn't be wearing Negro League throwbacks.

There's also the argument that the Negro League isn't something that should be honoured. That league's entire existence was predicated on social and racial injustice/bigotry. Celebrate the great players that came out of the league, sure. To actually celebrate the league itself though? I disagree with that. It's memory is a remnant of a shameful period of pro baseball history.

[goalieboy82]

Also, let's remember that all Negro League throwbacks fit this category.

i think teams should wear negro league throwbacks. i dont know how many people remember the negro league but it should be remembered.

[Dedalvs]

What do all of you think? Is it overkill? Or do you love seeing throwbacks on anniversaries? What throwbacks or anniversaries would you like to see?

Here's my (only) problem with the throwbacks: They're not special if they become overused. With the NFL this year (I know it's a unique year, but still), you can't watch football on Sunday without seeing at least two throwback jerseys. And with the NBA, it seems like some teams wear their throwback jerseys more than their regular jerseys. If they really don't like their own jerseys that much, they might as well just change them (or change them back, like the Sixers). Throwbacks should be a once in awhile thing, not a once a week thing.