New NFL Team Logos - Expansion, Relocation, and Minor League

[Artisan219]

I like it. When I did the Nightmare, I wasn't sure where to end the head as I didn't want to do the spine. I see that here it reads much better as a horse. I'm not sure about the ears. Don't horses ears sort of flow back as they run? The flames (spirit waves?) have a flow that makes one think he's rushing forward so perhaps the ears could flow backwards as well.

I very much hope you don't mind me quoting this here, I just figured since you were commenting on the image itself that it was pertinent to this thread.

Really, I couldn't say too much about the placement of the ears, since honestly they were something of an afterthought. The reference image I used only had one visible ear (in the image, it'd be the left one) but it looked too much like a weird horn without me using the other ear, so I guesstimated as best I could, which was a little hampered by the fact that I had already drawn the vectors for the highlights in the mane, so I took the path of least resistence. In my own head, I had intended to try to combine a windswept mane with blowing fire. The motion effect became somewhat of an accident, but I do know what you mean. As for how much of the head, I really needed more neck just to have more mane. I probably could have used actual vertebrae, but didn't out of a convergence of laziness and lack of decent reference, which led to the grey highlights to fill in the dead space (yay for puns). I ultimately used a muscle line to truncate the image, which also adds to the illusion of motion, since it looks like the horse is turning or thrashing its head at an angle.

The name Nightmares is NEVER a good idea. I mean, hey kids wanna come see something you hate?? YEA!!

Well to the best of my knowledge, Kevin Cormier is responsible for the name on this particular concept (I should have put his name on the jersey). I could just as easily do San Antonio Spectres, or San Antonio Spirits. I could nod to the Hispanic market and have the San Antonio Pesadillas, but frankly that just makes me want Taco Bell in the worst way (Mmm...quesadillas...), so I imagine the NFL would shoot that down for the same reason.

I mean, obviously you don't have to like the name, but what good does that do me? If you're going to comment against the name, at least suggest something. I think the ghost horse is a great idea, I just wish I'd thought of it myself.

[Funkatron101]

I like the Nightmare rendering. Your best one yet.

[leggman01]

san antonio aside, are these all your original designs?

here is my c&c for what it's worth...

you've already addressed the wordmark issue...they're horrible, even for place-holders...you would have been better off using an obviously generic font for each, because as they are, the wordmark seems to part of the design

the birmingham one is incredibly sharp and uses shading, lighting and color very deftly - it also has a nice, thick outline - very professional looking, and easily the most polished of the group

i'm not a huge fan of the oklahoma colors, but beyond that the very thin black outline bothers me...this should be much more pronounced - the entire logo has a bit of a frantic feel, which is probably fitting for a cyclone, but just stresses me out

the front of the primals is beautifully rendered, but the "scruff" on it's neck uses really pointy and straight lines that are very much inconsistent with the rest of the logo...and i'm not huge on the color combo...again there is thin, black outline...no need for it - fix those things and this is the best of the bunch

the SLC leopards has a lot of promise, as well, but it looks very much like a "live trace" image - the teeth, in particular, need some work - the logo itself could also use an injection of color...perhaps as an outline?...and while i'm on that subject, another thin, black outline that isn't necessary

the toronto logo is very solid, as well...there isn't quite enough contrast between the blue and black for me, but i've got a horrible monitor at work - maybe it's not as bad as it looks on my screen - this is another logo that suffers from really straight, pointy lines at the back which don't flow with the other more curved lines in the rest of the logo...oh, almost forgot...another thin, black outline

the washington logo is also really nice, but i'm trying to figure out why the blue is there...great outline, though

the changes you made to firefly's logo do make it seem more like a horse, but i think you've got an outline that is not necessary (or should be thickened)...at least it isn't really thin and black

[Artisan219]

I appreciate your input. Couple things that might make you feel better. First, that thin black line you hate so much isn't really part of the design. I just added a single-pixel outline to separate the logo from the background so the white line would pop more. Really this was because for some reason I wanted a gradient background. You'll notice for the Nightmares logo, the background was much darker, so I didn't need to use that.

For the gorilla, the sharp lines at the scruff were something of an afterthought. The logo itself is actually intended to be printed on a black helmet, so only the green purple, and white would show, which only suggests the gorilla's outline. But later I realized that forced me to keep the gorilla on a black background, which really limited the merchandising options, so I figured I did have to delineate an actual outline. I really should go back and fix it, but just haven't gotten around to it.

The Trike has a similar issue, but this one is actually by design. The black spiky mass in the back is actually the shadow of the frill falling on the Trike's neck, which is the line I used to truncate the logo. I'm still a bit unsure of the best color combination for Toronto. Nearly every Toronto team uses blue, which was a non-issue here as this is technically a Bills concept as well, but I could try a red version to contrast better.

Yes, I know I need to tweak SLC. I used the pencil tool in Illustrator to give me a rough design and got sidetracked, forgot about it, and exported out the jpg. I had originally intended on another concept for Salt Lake, but this was something of a request.

As for the wordmark/placeholders, meh. They're only there to name the team, I just tried to use fonts that would be somewhat appropriate to the designs. You don't have to like them, I'm not going to be keeping them for long. And you're more than welcome to try a hand at wordmarks yourself, depending on how much they bother you.

[leggman01]

I just added a single-pixel outline to separate the logo from the background so the white line would pop more.

i guess that's the point...if it needs a 1 pixel outline to make it pop, perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with the design - the truly great logos don't need them because the designer has figured out how to make the design work

For the gorilla, the sharp lines at the scruff were something of an afterthought.

i've read that something was an "afterthought" a few times in this thread now...i guess what i'm saying is that you shouldn't design a logo which incorporates an "afterthought" unless that afterthought improves said design - in this case (as with the triceretops, in my opinion) the straight pointed lines detract from the design

As for the wordmark/placeholders, meh. They're only there to name the team, I just tried to use fonts that would be somewhat appropriate to the designs. You don't have to like them, I'm not going to be keeping them for long. And you're more than welcome to try a hand at wordmarks yourself, depending on how much they bother you.

...yeah, no thanks (to designing wordmarks for you...i'm not great with text, either) - i just wanted you to realize that any graphic you put in an image is going to seem like it is an intentional part of the design - if you don't care, i don't either, but they detract from the overall impression of your logos and seem very unprofessional, especially when contrasted with the complexity of some of the logos

you've got some logos with real promise here, but you need to spend time fleshing them out if you want them to be great...if you're happy with them just being good...well...you're there

[DustDevil61]

I would suggest that you use "Utah" Leopards...it seems to come across smoother than Salt Lake City Leopards. But that's just my opinion.

With a few tweaks to SLC/Utah, I think that you could have an excellent logo and identity.

[Artisan219]

I just added a single-pixel outline to separate the logo from the background so the white line would pop more.

i guess that's the point...if it needs a 1 pixel outline to make it pop, perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with the design - the truly great logos don't need them because the designer has figured out how to make the design work

For the gorilla, the sharp lines at the scruff were something of an afterthought.

i've read that something was an "afterthought" a few times in this thread now...i guess what i'm saying is that you shouldn't design a logo which incorporates an "afterthought" unless that afterthought improves said design - in this case (as with the triceretops, in my opinion) the straight pointed lines detract from the design

As for the wordmark/placeholders, meh. They're only there to name the team, I just tried to use fonts that would be somewhat appropriate to the designs. You don't have to like them, I'm not going to be keeping them for long. And you're more than welcome to try a hand at wordmarks yourself, depending on how much they bother you.

...yeah, no thanks (to designing wordmarks for you...i'm not great with text, either) - i just wanted you to realize that any graphic you put in an image is going to seem like it is an intentional part of the design - if you don't care, i don't either, but they detract from the overall impression of your logos and seem very unprofessional, especially when contrasted with the complexity of some of the logos

you've got some logos with real promise here, but you need to spend time fleshing them out if you want them to be great...if you're happy with them just being good...well...you're there

Holy hell, man, these are still something of a work in progress. If I was "happy with them just being good..." why would I bother posting them here? I appreciate constructive comments as much as the next guy, but if I thought they were top-level professional grade, I wouldn't have to listen to criticisms of my unpaid hard work.

In response to your comments, I revised the backgrounds and just titled the city-markets. I'm still in the process of fixing Salt Lake, so I'm going to post that one later. The simplified background should let the colors do their thing, the quasi-wordmarks are gone, and the teams themselves are untitled.

[The Fixer]

the updates to the tricer (is that what you called it?) are great. Really looks like a logo. Really each of your designs should have a thick outline like that one and birmingham. the NFL could always remove the outline for certain things but on most merchandise you are going to want one. All the other NFL logos either work on all backgrounds or have variations that do. Another comment-don't take it the wrong way- but people are giving you CC. You shouldn't argue every point. You asked for it. It's going to help your logos get better. Don't be so hard on them

[LogoFan]

the updates to the tricer (is that what you called it?) are great. Really looks like a logo. Really each of your designs should have a thick outline like that one and birmingham. the NFL could always remove the outline for certain things but on most merchandise you are going to want one. All the other NFL logos either work on all backgrounds or have variations that do. Another comment-don't take it the wrong way- but people are giving you CC. You shouldn't argue every point. You asked for it. It's going to help your logos get better. Don't be so hard on them

I've toyed with using Triceratops for a team name. How about Tri-Tops?

[wILL-INI]

But "night mare" is such a great pun. Even this painting from 1781 used it

Resized to 69% (was 1600 x 1295) - Click image to enlarge

Ehhh, in this painting, the horse kinda represents a males genitalia, and the red drapes a woman's reproductive organ...

[Artisan219]

No, I do get that. I've had designs torn down, redone, and tweaked, and I really do not mind what people say about my designs. But I don't think it's out of line for me to ask for a little bit of common courtesy. He was right about a lot of what I needed to address, like the 1-pixel outline being an issue, I just think he phrased it in a really disrespectful way.

[Artisan219]

the updates to the tricer (is that what you called it?) are great. Really looks like a logo. Really each of your designs should have a thick outline like that one and birmingham. the NFL could always remove the outline for certain things but on most merchandise you are going to want one. All the other NFL logos either work on all backgrounds or have variations that do. Another comment-don't take it the wrong way- but people are giving you CC. You shouldn't argue every point. You asked for it. It's going to help your logos get better. Don't be so hard on them

I've toyed with using Triceratops for a team name. How about Tri-Tops?

I was going to name the team the Toronto Triceratops. I just figured much like how we refer to the Patriots as Pats, that the team would commonly abbreviate as the Trikes or Tricers.

[leggman01]

No, I do get that. I've had designs torn down, redone, and tweaked, and I really do not mind what people say about my designs. But I don't think it's out of line for me to ask for a little bit of common courtesy. He was right about a lot of what I needed to address, like the 1-pixel outline being an issue, I just think he phrased it in a really disrespectful way.

sorry you took it as disrespectful - no disrespect was intended - but it seems that you've received the crits in this thread in a less than gracious way...perhaps we both read something into this that wasn't there

nice updates

[Tygers09]

I love the logos of both the Leopards and Nightmares, the use of the Snow Leopard logo really would go with the topography with the State of Utah. I'm really not digging the logos and colors of Birmingham; I love the team colors of Portland but not the nickname. The triceratops logo for Toronto is cool but I really questioning the nickname. The team colors of the Nightmares is a plus but again, I'm questioning the nickname. But the Outlaws suggestion is a good use of colors with the nickname, nice combination there. I love the use of purple/gray combination of the Cyclones, excellent choice for a nickname since Oklahoma is part of the area known as Tornado Alley.

[jaha32]

No, I do get that. I've had designs torn down, redone, and tweaked, and I really do not mind what people say about my designs. But I don't think it's out of line for me to ask for a little bit of common courtesy. He was right about a lot of what I needed to address, like the 1-pixel outline being an issue, I just think he phrased it in a really disrespectful way.

Disrespect doesnt usually have a smiley face and he put a smiley face in there just to show you that although he was giving some criticism, he meant nothing by it so no need to take offense, although I do understand it's hard to have people pick apart your hard work. I still get a little nervous sometimes before I check into the feedback of others on my work, but it comes with the territory.

[Artisan219]

sorry you took it as disrespectful - no disrespect was intended - but it seems that you've received the crits in this thread in a less than gracious way...perhaps we both read something into this that wasn't there

nice updates

Yeah, I think we stepped off on the wrong foot there. I did understand what you meant about some of the issues, I just thought you were being a little harsh in your delivery. The way you associated the 1px outline to "there is something fundamentally wrong with the design" I took as being a little, I don't know, antagonistic. But you were right, by just using a one-color background without the gradient effect, I really didn't need it.

As for the "afterthought" issue, I took it as you being critical that I hadn't managed to completely anticipate every little challenge and obstacle, but in retrospect I admit that I should have caught some of those problems, especially the background issue with my gorilla logo. The reason I'm hesitant to fix those though, is because essentially, it's a lot more work than just fixing the logos, it's replacing all the other work I did with those logos that upsets me, but you were not aware of that, so it's unfair of me to take that out on you.

For me to fix Portland, Toronto, and Salt Lake, it would mean going back and fixing a set of image files and re-rendering each of these. And replacing word marks would mean re-rendering even more of them, though less work involved in image replacement.

It'd probably only take me a few hours from the time I finish the revisions to the time I fix the textures, and maybe only another two hours to re-render the three sequences, but it is just so damn tedious. I really do love working on this project, but I've just put so much into it that I'm kinda in the mindset that I just want to be done with it (I have NBA and NHL expansions to do to next... joy) so I'm just annoyed. Sorry to put that on you, I just didn't want to have to do more work, but you had to go ahead and be objectively constructive, and now I have more stuff to do. Grr..

[leggman01]

aritsan - all is right with you and i...just so you know, i don't crit anything that i think is complete crap - for the most part, i only spend time analyzing work which i think is unique and has some upside - i'm a fair designer (at best), but i think i've got an eye for little details and tweaks that can improve a logo - you can, at any time, completely ignore my feedback and you won't hurt my feelings one bit but if you post something and you're asking for feedback, be prepared to get it

i will tell you that most of my really good designs have been greatly improved by the folks on this forum...it's a tremendous resource and i try to pay that back when i think my input can be helpful

and that hoodie template is really slick!

[Buster]

Sigh... you missed a step. I said it was a rebranding of the Redskins and not a new team.

I hate it. They will never be "re-branded".

[Artisan219]

Sigh... you missed a step. I said it was a rebranding of the Redskins and not a new team.

I hate it. They will never be "re-branded".

Nor do I necessarily believe they will. But a friend of mine is both full-blooded Cherokee and a Maryland native and it was a valid request. In this age of political correctness, I can see how having the Redskins, especially in the nation's capital city, could be seen as behind the times, as after all the team goes back to before WWII. I chose the Tomahawks so that I could "change the team without changing the team" which was really nothing more in the grand scheme than a new logo (and a new uniform). They could use the tomahawk logo and still be the Redskins for all I care, I just think that the Native American head may have run its course. It also, I think, put a little more distance between the 'Skins and the Chiefs.

I understand you not liking the fact that I rebranded your team, but from my perspective that sentiment is, well, useless. It gives me nothing usable in terms of my logo, and really just tells me that you felt the need to announce to everyon how much of a die-hard fan you are that you can hate my concept out of hand. At least criticize the wrapping on the handle or the lack of color, or how I changed the mustard to a less-disgusting gold.