New logo for my old high school.

[OldRamsFan]

Great work.

But this is going to be like that damn Ottawa Rough Rider beaver logo.

I swear I see a squirrel crawling under that cap and I can't stop seeing it.

Thanks a lot, now you've got me seeing it!

[Funkatron101]

Fixed the hat, added flare. Will probably tweak it a little. by adding a ribbon to it and using a different font.

[epper]

Fixed the hat, added flare. Will probably tweak it a little. by adding a ribbon to it and using a different font.

This is a nice update. Definitely looks better without the eye detail though.

Nice work.

[jakemon08]

Fixed the hat, added flare. Will probably tweak it a little. by adding a ribbon to it and using a different font.

this looks great. keep the eye for sure.

[GeoTheo]

Nice update, I like what you did with the eye, and the hat is so much better. Looks great.

[GeauxColonels]

Fixed the hat, added flare. Will probably tweak it a little. by adding a ribbon to it and using a different font.

Very well done. I like the addition of the gray strip at the top of the hat. Also like the subtle change to the lapel button.

[jaha32]

I think it looks very nice. The updates are an improvement. I know youve been working a lot on the eye and I think you need the pupil, but if you got rid of the gray sliver in there and just keep the blue circle part, it would look better IMO. Less personable. I also think his mouth could have more of a scowl. not much of one, but by taking the very left end of the blue and angling it downward a little, he might look more intimidating.

These are just some small ideas for tweaks, but regardless, this is better than most high school logos around.

[9erssteve]

It's a good start but it still needs a TON of work doing to it if you want it to be a successful piece.

Compare your design at it's CURRENT size with the two logos that GoNordiques posted in their comment and check the line widths. Despite being LESS than half the size of yours NEITHER of those logos has ANY lines thinner than you've used! If you were to reduce your logo down to the size they are displayed I can tell you right now that there are about half a dozen things at least that will totally disappear because they are just to thin! You need to seriously bulk up your line thicknesses. I dont think the white in the eye is an improvement in anyway, it just makes it look cartoony rather than intimidating, and I think you need to look at the hat again. Are you actually working from reference photo's with that or going on gut instinct? Cos I'm pretty sure that to able to see into the curve of the front peak of the hat like that he'd have to be wearing it at a 3/4 angle facing the viewer while sitting in side on profile which means it would be squint on his head.

It's a good start but there are still a number of things that need to be worked on before this should be considered anywhere close to finished.

9erssteve

[Funkatron101]

It's a good start but it still needs a TON of work doing to it if you want it to be a successful piece.

Compare your design at it's CURRENT size with the two logos that GoNordiques posted in their comment and check the line widths. Despite being LESS than half the size of yours NEITHER of those logos has ANY lines thinner than you've used! If you were to reduce your logo down to the size they are displayed I can tell you right now that there are about half a dozen things at least that will totally disappear because they are just to thin! You need to seriously bulk up your line thicknesses. I dont think the white in the eye is an improvement in anyway, it just makes it look cartoony rather than intimidating, and I think you need to look at the hat again. Are you actually working from reference photo's with that or going on gut instinct? Cos I'm pretty sure that to able to see into the curve of the front peak of the hat like that he'd have to be wearing it at a 3/4 angle facing the viewer while sitting in side on profile which means it would be squint on his head.

It's a good start but there are still a number of things that need to be worked on before this should be considered anywhere close to finished.

9erssteve

I understand your concerns, but I wouldn't necessarily look at those two logos as the benchmark for line thickness. The Vikings logo has been successfully used for 50 years, and the lines on their logo aren't nearly as thick.

The only detail that is really lost IMO, is the lettering inside the broach, which I was aware of and will address it. But I will take your suggestion under advisement.

Half of the people here want the eyeball, half don't. I just don't think I'm going to please everyone here in regards to that.

As far as the hat goes, I have mentioned looking at numerous tricorn hats online. A few problems came up. 1. Very VERY few of the images online show the hat in the same angle as my logo. 2. Of the ones that do, I hate the shape of them. In fact it's been quite difficult to find a consistent shape that is dynamic enough for a logo in this angle.

I think it looks very nice. The updates are an improvement. I know youve been working a lot on the eye and I think you need the pupil, but if you got rid of the gray sliver in there and just keep the blue circle part, it would look better IMO. Less personable. I also think his mouth could have more of a scowl. not much of one, but by taking the very left end of the blue and angling it downward a little, he might look more intimidating.

These are just some small ideas for tweaks, but regardless, this is better than most high school logos around.

I tried your eye suggestion before I decided on using the gray. I thought it made the logo have that cross-eyed look like I had before. So I'm not sure. I'll look into making more of a scowl though.

[9erssteve]

I understand your concerns, but I wouldn't necessarily look at those two logos as the benchmark for line thickness. The Vikings logo has been successfully used for 50 years, and the lines on their logo aren't nearly as thick.

The only detail that is really lost IMO, is the lettering inside the broach, which I was aware of and will address it. But I will take your suggestion under advisement.

Half of the people here want the eyeball, half don't. I just don't think I'm going to please everyone here in regards to that.

As far as the hat goes, I have mentioned looking at numerous tricorn hats online. A few problems came up. 1. Very VERY few of the images online show the hat in the same angle as my logo. 2. Of the ones that do, I hate the shape of them. In fact it's been quite difficult to find a consistent shape that is dynamic enough for a logo in this angle.

At the end of the day all any of us can do is offer our opinion, whether you decide to act on it is up to you, and if you dont it's no skin off my nose really. You're right about the eye you'll never please everyone so make sure you're as happy with it as you can be or better still make sure the client is happy with and you'll reach the best solution.

With regards line thickness again it's your call, but when it comes to the practicalities of screen printing or embroidery there are far more areas that will cause you concern than the letters in the broach. Look at any NFL logo that's been updated in the last 15 years and you'll see a uniform movement to bulk line thickness up and the truth is between NFL and College logos the line thicknesses of those other logos is if not already, certainly becoming closer to the working benchmark for line thickness with each passing year. I think the fact that the Viking full head logo is rarely used on uniforms is probably the only reason he's lasted this long (and he's been tweaked a few times since his creation) and to be honest I doubt he'll be left untouched much longer. They tweaked the horn on the helmet a few years back and I could see them bringing that change to the full head logo and revising the rest accordingly pretty soon, ie when Nike take over uniform production.

The biggest advantage to be brought by thickening the lines, other than the production issues mentioned above would be that it would allow you to play with the thicknesses in certain places to help create weight and movement to the piece right now not only are the lines really thin they are also incredibly uniform which makes for a pretty static piece.

Apologies if this seems all negative it's not my intent to rip the logo or drag you down, I just feel you're really close to having something pretty impressive here but that you need to keep pushing this in order to get there.

9erssteve

[Sport Billy]

Fixed the hat, added flare. Will probably tweak it a little. by adding a ribbon to it and using a different font.

Can you try shortening the line on the shoulder and running a line perpendicular to it.

That shoulder looks like the perfect opportunity to use it as a shoulder as well as a "CP".

I hope that makes sense.

[Funkatron101]

The only off-putting thing you wrote,9erssteve, was:

It's a good start but it still needs a TON of work doing to it if you want it to be a successful piece.

The lines seem to be your biggest issue, and thickening some lines doesn't require a ton of work.

You made no other suggestions about the hat, or offered any references, so at this point it's hard for me to go forward with that.

[lich0037]

9erssteve has some good points. I agree with him about the lines. In my opinion, they should be thicker and more consistent through out the logo. I know it may look fine when it?s reduced, but I am drawn right away to the thick jaw/chin line. Try beefing the lines up. I also think you should drop the ?CP? flower thing of the hat. Too much flare, IMO. I know you don?t want to the logo to look like the Patriots logo, but try adding a star. Or just a bigger ?CP?.

I would also advise on not showing this to the school unless you have been hired to re-design the logo. I know you have good intentions, but I?ve heard similar stories and they don?t turn out very well. I think I know what school mascot you trying to update and I think it?s a great idea, just be careful.

Just my two cents. Great start!

[Funkatron101]

9erssteve has some good points. I agree with him about the lines. In my opinion, they should be thicker and more consistent through out the logo. I know it may look fine when it?s reduced, but I am drawn right away to the thick jaw/chin line. Try beefing the lines up. I also think you should drop the ?CP? flower thing of the hat. Too much flare, IMO. I know you don?t want to the logo to look like the Patriots logo, but try adding a star. Or just a bigger ?CP?.

I would also advise on not showing this to the school unless you have been hired to re-design the logo. I know you have good intentions, but I?ve heard similar stories and they don?t turn out very well. I think I know what school mascot you trying to update and I think it?s a great idea, just be careful.

Just my two cents. Great start!

Thanks for the advice. I'm actually going to have a formal presentation that provides some other services as well. I wasn't planning on showing anything formally unless I was hired. But I have been interested in revamping the logo regardless. I've never done any human-like logos before and I thought it would be a good challenge, but need some feedback.

I'm thickening the lines now. The broach was a bit of a placeholder, a rough idea to see if people liked it, and if I even liked it. I'm kind of "meh" about it.

[Funkatron101]

Also care to share some of those stories? Curiosity has gotten to me.

[lich0037]

I heard of some schools just ignoring proposals, getting offended and flat out not caring when someone submits new team logo ideas. Some think by changing the color of pro or college logo is enough to call it there own. A lot of schools also don?t want to spend the money to update/correct there logo. In some cases it?s a multi-million dollar change. They have to repaint the gym, new banners, new stationary and sometimes new uniforms. I?ve heard of some schools, knowingly ripping off a logo, not taking action until they are forced to.

I actually called out a school here in Minnesota (others did as well). I told them they were using a logo of a professional Minor League Baseball team. They acknowledge the mistake and asked me to create some concepts. I did and later submitted them to the school. They said they liked my ideas, but wanted ?more community involvement?. So they turned into a?<insert dramatic music here>?.a contest! So I had to re-submit my design again for the contest. Big mistake. The ?winning design? was basically my exact design with a different font and colors. I was going to fight it, but since it was a contest, I couldn?t do anything about it.

It?s good your meeting with them first. I wouldn?t show anything until to them until they sign an agreement or contract for design work. Good luck!

[Funkatron101]

I heard of some schools just ignoring proposals, getting offended and flat out not caring when someone submits new team logo ideas. Some think by changing the color of pro or college logo is enough to call it there own. A lot of schools also don?t want to spend the money to update/correct there logo. In some cases it?s a multi-million dollar change. They have to repaint the gym, new banners, new stationary and sometimes new uniforms. I?ve heard of some schools, knowingly ripping off a logo, not taking action until they are forced to.

I actually called out a school here in Minnesota (others did as well). I told them they were using a logo of a professional Minor League Baseball team. They acknowledge the mistake and asked me to create some concepts. I did and later submitted them to the school. They said they liked my ideas, but wanted ?more community involvement?. So they turned into a?<insert dramatic music here>?.a contest! So I had to re-submit my design again for the contest. Big mistake. The ?winning design? was basically my exact design with a different font and colors. I was going to fight it, but since it was a contest, I couldn?t do anything about it.

It?s good your meeting with them first. I wouldn?t show anything until to them until they sign an agreement or contract for design work. Good luck!

This is good to know. It is pretty clear that they are in violation (like many other schools as you mention). So they will have to weigh the potential for a lawsuit vs the initial upfront costs for the change with the new revenue it will generate with merchandise.

I haven't even presented them with the idea yet, so it could go nowhere fast, but I want to have this logo (with two lesser quality logos) ready to present just in case. As I said, I am working on a proposal that incorporates web and print services through the company I work for. If they aren't interested, I will have this logo "in my back pocket" so to speak, for other uses.

If they are interested, but pull the same kind of "contest" crap, then I will bolt.

[Sport Billy]

It is pretty clear that they are in violation

Not necessarily. Many college/pro teams allow high schools to use their logo as long as the school asks before using it and agrees to certain conditions.

[oddball]

The hat is too low on the forehead, it's the one thing that just strikes me as needing to be fixed.

[elsephen]

The eye needs to be changed. They just look empty with no emotion right now. If you have to keep the detail... maybe pull the eyebrow over the top to make him look angry or focused?