2013 NFL Off-Season Thread

[theSLVRBCK]

I am slightly ashamed to say that I have had pretty similar outbursts at times over the years. Namely Jordan Reed's fumble in the FL/UGA game this past season.

[BlueSky]

Can't watch the fan reaction vid where I am at the moment so I don't know if it's in there, but there were some epic reactions from Vikings fans caught on tape when Fav-ruh threw that ill-advised pick to Tracy Porter in the '09 NFCCG.

[Gothamite]

And the reaction of every Packer fan to that play was turning to the guy next to them and saying "Pay up."

[Kramerica Industries]

I am slightly ashamed to say that I have had pretty similar outbursts at times over the years. Namely Jordan Reed's fumble in the FL/UGA game this past season.

Nothing to be ashamed of there. That and Driskel's pick before the half completely blew Florida's chance of winning that game. So many points thrown ashore that day.

[dfwabel]

And more dead money for the Raiders as they place Rolando McClain on waivers. FYI, McFadden is the only Radiers first round pick on the current roster drafted after 2001.

In a surprising twist, the Raiders can not spread out the $7.26 million dead-money salary-cap hit over two seasons. Because they placed McClain on waivers and he is not a vested veteran (four or more accrued seasons), he is not eligible for the June 1 cap designation. McClain still had two years left on the $40 million, five-year rookie contract he signed in 2010. That deal included $23 million in guarantees.

[CS85]

Oh, Raiders. I like what you're doing while simultaneously shaking my head in confusion at how it ever had to come to this.

[Rockstar Matt]

I don't know if you guys have seen this, but this is pretty big news to me, anyways.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=9137573

Four current NFL players are considering coming out gay publically.

I really hope these guys do. It'd be a big step in the right direction for them to gain their deserved civil rights.

[theSLVRBCK]

I was just looking over the current roster for the Jags. Anybody want to give me some odds on the Jags having a top 2 pick again next season .. I'd like to place a wager. Eesh.

Who would have thought 2 years ago that the wide receiver group would be the second strongest unit on the roster, even more-so with the signing of Massaquoi.

[Gothamite]

I don't know if you guys have seen this, but this is pretty big news to me, anyways.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=9137573

Four current NFL players are considering coming out gay publically.

I really hope these guys do. It'd be a big step in the right direction for them to gain their deserved civil rights.

It would be huge.

And smart to do it as a group, meaning no one man would have to carry that burden.

Fingers crossed that it's true.

[BlueSky]

I don't know if you guys have seen this, but this is pretty big news to me, anyways.

http://m.espn.go.com...storyId=9137573

Four current NFL players are considering coming out gay publically.

I really hope these guys do. It'd be a big step in the right direction for them to gain their deserved civil rights.

It would be huge.

And smart to do it as a group, meaning no one man would have to carry that burden.

Fingers crossed that it's true.

I'm all for inclusion but I'm not sure what "deserved civil rights" any NFL players are being denied. The nature of athletics being what it is, whether it's 1 or 4 or 40 they may still have an uphill climb in NFL locker rooms.

[Rockstar Matt]

No, no, I meant that Gay people in general are still fighting to gain their right to marry one another, which is a basic civil right that they're being denied of.

[oldschoolvikings]

And the reaction of every Packer fan to that play was turning to the guy next to them and saying "Pay up."

Which would match all the Saints defensive players who turned to each other during the game to say "Pay up."

[BlueSky]

No, no, I meant that Gay people in general are still fighting to gain their right to marry one another, which is a basic civil right that they're being denied of.

Where exactly is this right defined? Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing the issue of gay marriage, I'm asking in what law or document it says that marriage (gay or otherwise) is a guaranteed right. People say that all the time but where is it coming from? Seems if it was that cut and dried we wouldn't need the Supreme Court to figure it out.

[Gothamite]

It is cut and dried. Google Loving v. Virginia. Read the whole opinion.

In the United States, marriage is a fundamental civil right protected by our Constitution. That's why legislation like Prop 8 is so abhorrent, and why increased visibility for gay people in all walks of life is so very, very important.

[dfwabel]

Oh, Raiders. I like what you're doing while simultaneously shaking my head in confusion at how it ever had to come to this.

Here is a "dead money" comparison from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (prior to the waive of McClain):

Consider the dead money on the Packers' 2013 adjusted salary cap of $131,325,731: A total of 15 players account for $959,236. The majority of the Packers' dead money this year belongs to center Jeff Saturday, who was given a guaranteed $1.65 million roster bonus when he signed a two-year deal in 2012. He was released in January - and later retired - but $825,000 of that bonus will count against the Packers' cap this year.

The Oakland Raiders are the extreme. Through a series of absurd moves before former Packers personnel director Reggie McKenzie became general manager, the Raiders are carrying nearly $40 million of dead money, including $9.34 million alone from quarterback Carson Palmer, who was traded Tuesday to the Arizona Cardinals.

Their adjusted salary cap is $127.2 million, so one-third of their cap will be devoted to players who aren't there. The Raiders' troubles were the result of a poor decision in acquiring Palmer and writing huge contracts to players who couldn't live up to them.

OAK and NO were not able to share in the cap penalties given to DAL and WAS, thus part of the large difference in adjusted cap numbers from OAK to GB.

The following 2012 OAK starters are no longer on the roster: Rolando McClain, Carson Palmer, Richard Seymour, Carson Palmer, Tommy Kelly, Michael Huff, Matt Shaughnessy, Desmond Bryant, Phillip Wheeler, Dave Tollefson, Shane Lechler and Darrius Heyward-Bey.

[Gothamite]

And that is the difference between a well-run franchise and the Raiders.

Hope McKenzie can turn it around for them - I've always loved that guy.

[BlueSky]

It is cut and dried. Google Loving v. Virginia. Read the whole opinion.

In the United States, marriage is a fundamental civil right protected by our Constitution. That's why legislation like Prop 8 is so abhorrent, and why increased visibility for gay people in all walks of life is so very, very important.

Okay, I read it all and you know as well as I do that it's apples and oranges. What you want to ignore is the fact that the opinion was written with the assumption that marriage is defined as being between a man and woman. You can massage it all you want but it won't change that reality.

Again, I'm not debating the issue itself, merely pointing out that the opinion you cited stipulates marriage to be a basic civil right regardless of race, not gender. If it was otherwise I'm sure the Supreme Court wouldn't have to decide the case, right?

And from here let's agree to disagree because the last thing I want is to be a threadjacker.

[Gothamite]

I'll agree to disagree, but first I have to point out that you're moving the goalposts.

Your question was:

I'm asking in what law or document it says that marriage (gay or otherwise) is a guaranteed right.

You asked, I answered.

Marriage is a Constitutional right. The fact that there is a significant (if shrinking) group in our society that want to deny gay people that right is why increased visibility in all walks of life is so very, very important.

Studies have shown that one of the biggest factors in changing attitudes towards gay people is knowing gay people, personally of otherwise. It's always easier to countenance discrimination against a group you don't actually know.

That's why it's important that gay athletes step out of the closet. To bring it specifically back to the subject at hand, and all.

[BlueSky]

I'll agree to disagree, but first I have to point out that you're moving the goalposts.

Your question was:

I'm asking in what law or document it says that marriage (gay or otherwise) is a guaranteed right.

You asked, I answered.

Marriage is a Constitutional right. The fact that there is a significant (if shrinking) group in our society that want to deny gay people that right is why increased visibility in all walks of life is so very, very important.

Studies have shown that one of the biggest factors in changing attitudes towards gay people is knowing gay people, personally of otherwise. It's always easier to countenance discrimination against a group you don't actually know.

That's why it's important that gay athletes step out of the closet. To bring it specifically back to the subject at hand, and all.

You're right, I forgot my parenthetical clarifier.

[Gothamite]

No sweat. I'd be happy to talk to you further about the marriage subject on the Lounge, if you'd like.