Angels tell Anaheim they're opting out of their lease on Angel Stadium

[Gothamite]

“Anaheim Angels” only ever appealed to the city officials and those very few Orange County residents who like to kid themselves that they’re not a satellite city of Los Angeles.  They’re well off to be rid of it.

 

If only they had the courage to actually use “Los Angeles” instead of trying to pander to those residents with “Angels baseball”. 

[SFGiants58]

4 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

“Anaheim Angels” only ever appealed to the city officials and those very few Orange County residents who like to kid themselves that they’re not a satellite city of Los Angeles.

 

Nope. Orange County is its own monster, from a sociopolitical perspective. Look at how many Angels fans on here dislike the "Los Angeles-ification" of the team (e.g., @Still MIGHTY). At this point, going full "Los Angeles Angels" would be comparable to the "New York Dodgers." 

 

Do you have a problem with the Anaheim Ducks, or will we get the dreadful argument that hockey and baseball are "too different" to justify the comparison?

[Gothamite]

I’m saying they’re part of the LA metroplex.  Orange County may well have its own vibe, but so does Malibu.  So does Brentwood. So does Santa Monica.  So does does Van Nuys, gods help them.  

 

For many, many years, residents of the OC tried to pretend they were utterly separate, removed, and distinct from LA.  When I lived there, that was fueled in no small part by their relative demographics.  But even though that cause is largely a thing of the past, it doesn’t make their pretense any more true. 

[SFGiants58]

1 minute ago, Gothamite said:

I’m saying they’re part of the LA metroplex.  Orange County may well have its own vibe, but so does Malibu.  So does Brentwood. So does Santa Monica.  So does does Van Nuys, gods help them.  

 

Eh, I'd say that's it's a more distinct difference. The Orange Curtain is a very real phenomenon.

 

 

1 minute ago, Gothamite said:

For many, many years, residents of the OC tried to pretend they were utterly separate, removed, and distinct from LA.  But that just ain’t so.

 

I would argue that it is. It's more different than Brooklyn is from Manhattan. Besides, what was the name of the team that won it all in 2002?

 

 

Los Angeles outside of Orange Country doesn't want the Angels, so why should they act otherwise? They're Orange County's team, in the same way that the A's are Oakland's team or the Dodgers were Brooklyn's team. 

[GDAWG]

8 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Eh, I'd say that's it's a more distinct difference. The Orange Curtain is a very real phenomenon.

 

 

 

I would argue that it is. It's more different than Brooklyn is from Manhattan. Besides, what was the name of the team that won it all in 2002?

 

 

Los Angeles outside of Orange Country doesn't want the Angels, so why should they act otherwise? They're Orange County's team, in the same way that the A's are Oakland's team or the Dodgers were Brooklyn's team. 

 

For now.

[Gothamite]

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

Eh, I'd say that's it's a more distinct difference. The Orange Curtain is a very real phenomenon.

 

 

You’re providing me more ammunition that Anaheim is a suburb, there.

 

And as OC (mercifully) browns, it’s also becoming less conservative.  I would say it might also be becoming less distinct, since so much of its self-image was tied up in whiteness.

 

Quote

I would argue that it is. It's more different than Brooklyn is from Manhattan.

 

In what way?  That river is a pretty big gulf.  

 

Besides, the more diverse Orange County gets, the more it resembles the extension of Greater Los Angeles that it is.  That narrow identify is crumbling. 

 

Quote

Besides, what was the name of the team that won it all in 2002?

 

 

Los Angeles outside of Orange Country doesn't want the Angels, so why should they act otherwise? They're Orange County's team, in the same way that the A's are Oakland's team or the Dodgers were Brooklyn's team. 

 

Because Anaheim on its own isn’t big enough.  Advertisers and sponsors and broadcasters were willing to pay more for a “Los Angeles” team than an “Anaheim” team.   There are some rare smaller municipalities that have enough cache to sell to outsiders: Brooklyn, Hollywood.  But Anaheim was only selling to Anaheim, and that wasn’t enough.  

[SFGiants58]

2 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

You’re providing me more ammunition that Anaheim is a suburb, there.

 

And as OC (mercifully) browns, it’s also becoming less conservative.  I would say it might also be becoming less distinct, since so much of its self-image was tied up in whiteness.

 

I agree, that’s a good development.

 

2 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

In what way?  That river is a pretty big gulf.  

 

I get the distinction, especially when analyzing parallel development as opposed to one developing after the other due to post-WWII social trends.

 

2 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Because Anaheim on its own isn’t big enough.  Advertisers and sponsors and broadcasters were willing to pay more for a “Los Angeles” team than an “Anaheim” team.   There are some rare smaller municipalities that have enough cache to sell to outsiders: Brooklyn, Hollywood.  But Anaheim was only selling to Anaheim, and that wasn’t enough.  

 

The Ducks have never had this problem. Try saying “Los Angeles Ducks” to a Ducks fan and see how they react. It’s not that different for baseball. Once they made the effort to focus on Anaheim, they gained the potential to alienate a significant portion of their fanbase. @Still MIGHTY knows more about this than I do, but embracing “Los Angeles” would be incredibly alienating.

[Gothamite]

I don’t know much about hockey, I’ll admit it.  Except that I do know hockey is somewhat less dependent upon ticket sales than baseball is; baseball still draws a significant percentage of its revenue from attendance, which may be easier when you’re talking about a couple extra millions of fans over twice as many games. 

 

And yeah, I get that a lot of Anaheimers still don’t like to think of themselves as extended Angelinos.   

 

 

 

[Brian in Boston]

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

I’m saying they’re part of the LA metroplex.  Orange County may well have its own vibe, but so does Malibu.  So does Brentwood. So does Santa Monica.  So does does Van Nuys, gods help them.  

Anaheim is an independent municipality in Orange County that ranges anywhere from 2-1/2 to 27 times as populous as the City of Los Angeles neighborhoods (Brentwood and Van Nuys) and LA County independent cities (Malibu and Santa Monica) that you lump it in with here. Anaheim ranges anywhere from 2-1/2 times to 6 times as large in total land area as the neighborhoods and cities you cite.

Look, Anaheim may not be New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, or Phoenix, but it isn't Malibu, Brentwood, Santa Monica, or Van Nuys, either.

 

Hell, if we're all in on naming Anaheim's MLB team the Los Angeles Angels, why not dub Oakland's MLB team the San Francisco A's? After all, San Francisco's more populous than Oakland, it's the Bay Area municipality with the higher profile, and the Athletics' ballpark is closer to downtown San Francisco than the Angels' is to downtown Los Angeles.      

 

[Gothamite]

36 minutes ago, Brian in Boston said:

Look, Anaheim may not be New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, or Phoenix, but it isn't Malibu, Brentwood, Santa Monica, or Van Nuys, either.

 

Sure it is.   A smaller city orbiting a larger one.

 

When the central city is as large as LA or New York, the satellite cities get larger too.  Doesn’t change the fact that Anaheim is well within the LA metroplex.  If it wasn’t so close to LA, Anaheim would be Bakersfield.

 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Remind me why they're not the California Angels anymore? That was pretty great while it lasted.

[LMU]

Just now, DG_Now said:

Remind me why they're not the California Angels anymore? That was pretty great while it lasted.

I'm assuming this is rhetorical but if not, city officials wanted some PR thrown in with their check to Mickey Mouse, Inc. to tear down the Rams seats and add in extra rocks from the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.

 

52 minutes ago, Brian in Boston said:

Look, Anaheim may not be New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, or Phoenix, but it isn't Malibu, Brentwood, Santa Monica, or Van Nuys, either.

And Anaheim definitely isn't Long Beach.

 

I'll also throw this in... I had an ex about 10 years ago from Costa Mesa.  Her first time in my area (Torrance/Redondo Beach) she made the comment that it looked exactly like Orange County despite being 30 miles and a county line over.  Adds some argument to the argument that it's o

[Gothamite]

Why Anaheim?  Because Anaheim paid them to use “Anaheim”.

 

And I guess now it seems a little silly for one of five teams in the state to try and claim the name. When they first adopted it, they were the only AL team in California.  That meant something in those days.  Now there are two additional teams in the state, the Angels aren’t the only AL club anymore, and even if they were the league distinction itself is meaningless.

[SFGiants58]

1 minute ago, Gothamite said:

Because Anaheim paid them to use “Anaheim”.  

 

The city made the right call, then. If they want to be an LA team, don't play beyond the remnants of the Orange Curtain.

 

Besides, I'd much rather that the team had taken the "Hollywood Stars" name. If you're going to use any local name within Greater Los Angeles, that one is probably the most marketable.

 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

5 minutes ago, LMU said:

I'm assuming this is rhetorical but if not, city officials wanted some PR thrown in with their check to Mickey Mouse, Inc. to tear down the Rams seats and add in extra rocks from the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.

 

It wasn't rhetorical; I legit didn't know.

 

Seems like switching from California has provided imperfect options afterward.

[Brian in Boston]

26 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Sure it is.   A smaller city orbiting a larger one.

When the central city is as large as LA or New York, the satellite cities get larger too.

Brentwood and Van Nuys aren't smaller cities orbiting a larger one. They're neighborhoods in a large city.

 

[Gothamite]

Alhambra and Beverly Hills, then. 

[Brian in Boston]

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

Alhambra and Beverly Hills, then. 

Which one takes the place of Brentwood and which takes the place of Van Nuys? Or don't you take into account nuances like population, land area, demographics and the such when you elect to hold forth about the City of Los Angeles and its sphere of influence over other communities in Southern California?

I mean...

"Orange County may well have its own vibe, but so does Malibu.  So does Brentwood. So does Santa Monica.  So does does Van Nuys, gods help them."

"And as OC (mercifully) browns..."

"If it wasn’t so close to LA, Anaheim would be Bakersfield."

Do you have any idea how smug, condescending, and dismissive these tossed-off assessments sound? Honestly... "browns"? 

"When I lived there... "

Oh, now I get it. You put in your time in Southern California and now believe yourself to be some sort of cultural anthropologist with a special insight into what makes the entirety of the region tick... as only someone ensconced in New York can. 

It might be time to retire "Gothamite" and adopt the handle "Alvy Singer".     

      
 

[SFGiants58]

58 minutes ago, Brian in Boston said:

Which one takes the place of Brentwood and which takes the place of Van Nuys? Or don't you take into account nuances like population, land area, demographics and the such when you elect to hold forth about the City of Los Angeles and its sphere of influence over other communities in Southern California?

 

(snip)

Do you have any idea how smug, condescending, and dismissive these tossed-off assessments sound? 

Oh, now I get it. You put in your time in Southern California and now believe yourself to be some sort of cultural anthropologist with a special insight into what makes the entirety of the region tick... as only someone ensconced in New York can. 
 

 

A lot the whole Anaheim/Los Angeles debate focuses on people from outside the region misinterpreting the nature of these demographics and geographic separations. It's why I keep making the Brooklyn comparison, if only to get a rise out of a few of them. It's a good way to relate how ridiculous their generalizations sound. 

 

58 minutes ago, Brian in Boston said:

It might be time to retire "Gothamite" and adopt the handle "Alvy Singer".     
 

 

Hey, that's too cruel! 

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

The mentions of the cultural distinctiveness of Orange County miss the point. The important factor here is simple geography. For a city the magnitude of a Los Angeles, a smaller city only 30 miles away is always going to be part of the larger city's metro area, notwithstanding any cultural differences, and regardless of whether that smaller city is located in another county or in another state. (In the cases of Detroit and Vancouver, smaller cities belonging to the larger city's metro area can even be located in another country.)

 

Yet it is true that the Angels essentially disavow Los Angeles in their branding. They are thus squandering the benefits of identifying with one of the world's greatest cities.

 

What makes the current situation feel so weird is the multiple changes of name. If the team had been called the Los Angeles Angels since its inception, or if it had retained its longstanding identity of California Angels, the t-shirts that read "Angels Baseball" would not be so awkward.

 

The only thing that is for sure about the team's varying names is that "Anaheim" should never have been among those names. The reason touches upon why baseball is indeed different from hockey: hockey is a niche sport in the United States, while baseball is a huge national institution.

 

In a classic running gag from Jack Benny's radio show, Mel Blanc portrays a train station announcer who makes the announcement "train leaving on track 5 for Anaheim, Azusa, and Cuc...amonga".

 

 

Those are the types places with which Anaheim can be classed; while Los Angeles ranks with other world-class cosmopolitan centres such as New York, London, and Paris.

 

To put it most starkly: Major League Baseball is too big for Anaheim. And so is the NFL. But the NHL is not. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Ferdinand Cesarano
Spelling correction. Thanks to Brian in Boston.