NBA to allow corporate logos on uniforms?

[Sterling84]

How convienient of you to leave out the fact that teams have to pay vendors as well as every single person working at a concession stand/souvenier stand, not to mention various other personel who work at the stadiums, so they are hardly clearing $500,000 a game "easy."

Yeah. I'm sure 15 old guys working the parking lot, and 75 teenagers making minimum wage slinging hot dogs for a 3 hour shift really chew up those profits. I don't have any actual figures on the subject.

If every person in a half filled ballpark (lets say 15,000 in attendance) spent a combination of $40 on their ticket, parking, and food. (and I think we know thats a gross UNDER estimate seeing as some tickets are more than that) that would equal a take of $600,000.00. That figure is with a not filled stadium and rounded down figures. Estimate that a "place to be" ballpark like NY, Boston, STL, or SF that figure may be closer to 40,000 fans each spending $75 and the figure quickly jumps to 3 MILLION! per game. But thats a different scenario and again, I don't have hard numbers......just estimating.

So say it takes a crew of ......what? 350 skilled vendors and employees each working a 5 hour ball game shift at $7/per hour. Thats maybe 12-13K in payroll for ballpark employees per game. Ooooooooooh. That lowers are fake profit margin down to 587K at lowly Miller Park. The standard mark-up on hot dogs, soda, popcorn, and beer are literally the highest of any type of food so I refuse to grant any "overhead" deductions there although they certainly do exist in a minimal fashion.

But this is all speculation and so much talk about nothing. I object to even having to "run" these fake numbers and walk you through this to justify my post.

The only thing I posted was that people FEEL like they are owed because they FEEL like it's their dime the players/owners get rich off of. Thats it. I was only answering the post of another member who asked "Why?". I replied with what I felt was one possible answer. Period.

Sports are a spectator enterprise. Spend all day explaining to me how we DON'T pay for their wealth if you want. But it's not as though they practice smart long-term security investing. Every penny comes from us whether it be through merch, food, tickets, stadium sales tax initiatives, suites, parking or tv package revenue ( which we "pay" for by cable bills or sitting through hours of commercials per year).

[The_Admiral]

"Don't worry, it looks good on European soccer teams!"

No, I think soccer jerseys look awful. Before I even got the slightest clue about the Premier League, I thought their big popular team was called Vodafone.

[Plaid Paint]

The standard mark-up on hot dogs, soda, popcorn, and beer are literally the highest of any type of food so I refuse to grant any "overhead" deductions there although they certainly do exist in a minimal fashion.

So you are now claiming that teams don't have to pay for any of the food they sell during games in the stadium.

Very interesting.

I'm sure the IRS would be quite interested to know that.

[OB33]

.............

"But imagine the possibilites in North America. Had Labatt's still owned the Blue Jays, they would be known as the "Labatt Blue" Jays. Perhaps we could have the Anaheim "Hell's Angels", or the Denver Golden Nuggets"

.............

It would never be with just a small 3'' patch on the shoulder or something, cororate sponsors would take it to the absolute extreme, which is why I'm only half joking about the following ideas....

The McDonald's Denver Chicken McNuggets (so what changes?)

The Orlando SeaWorld Dolphins of Miami (thank you Anahiem)

The Miller Brewers Company Milwaukee, Wisconsin (Don't even have to change the name)

Harley-Davidson presents the Oakland Raiders (the fans already do)

The New York Metropolitan Life Baseball (match made in heaven)

Sam Adams-New England Patriots (historic AND corporate)

Velveeta Snackers Packers (didn't these guys originally go by the ACME Packers?)

Interstate Lottery Milwaukee Mega-Bucks (because the Powerballs is too suggestive)

Six Flags Over Dallas Cowboys (score a touchdown- free tix on the rollercoaster)

Mohegan Sun Casino Basketball (oh wait, we already have that!)

Pittsburgh Steel (easiset transition)

Ford Motors Detroit 2006 Mustangs Cobras (or whatever model they're pushing)

Star Wars Episode VII: The Search For More Money Rated: PG In Theatres May 19th 20th Century Fox Los Angeles Dodgers (don't laugh, I know of a Euro soccer team that was advertising "Hitch" on their jerseys)

The Pfiser Viagra Yankees  (Insert own joke here, besides the only way they could make their NASCAR sposorship better is if they sponsored Dick Trickle )

The Jive Records Britney Spears: Craptastic Utah Jazz (Oops, the Jazz lose it again)

Tim Horton's Tim-bits Maple Sugar Leafs (They're puckin' great!)

The Harvey's Calgary Stampeder Burgers (the losers become the winning taste)

Bad enough the stadium, the sidelines and in some cases even the play field itself has become a billboard, but its going to be a very dark day when the players become a walking talking advertising to the point where it will be impossible to ignore it.  Sports does not need sponsorship of this magnitude to survive- they are richer than most of us can dream.  The fact has already been mentioned here; greed.  This day will come, in some places its already here.

You forgot the BALCO Giants that would be perfect

The opinions expressed here are solely those of the post. OB33 believes that Jim Dowd is innocent until proven guilty

[Sterling84]

So you are now claiming that teams don't have to pay for any of the food they sell during games in the stadium.

Very interesting.

I'm sure the IRS would be quite interested to know that.

Dude. Seriously. Please stop fishing for an argument so we can discuss the topic at hand.

People don't want to see ads on unis cause ads are everywhere else and there is a feeling of ownership and entitlement inherent in their beloved teams. For right or wrong, we want to have a say in things...and frankly, as their customers, we deserve one.

Stadium food is not free. But it's virtually free. I can buy (retail mind you, not even guessing how cheap wholesale cost is) 12 hot dogs and 8 buns for less than the cost of one stadium dog. The mark up is so high (captive audience principle) that I didn't bother putting it into my per game revenue estimate. The markup is probably 200-800% at a bare minimum on all those types of foods. Popcorn and soda are great examples. Movie theatres have to pay very high rental fees on the films they show, and in order to combat that and turn a profit, sell us 10 cents worth of popcorn for $4.75. Same principle. Stadiums do the same things. Soda is ridiculously cheap. All stadium food is.

So, were I to revise my estimate to make you happy.....fine. I was guessing that a team had 13K in payroll to subtract from their 600,000 gross profit from one game. Well, to make you happy, subtract $0.50 per person for cost of food (-$7,500.00) which brings our net profit down to 579,500.00

Shall I do another one accounting for unemployment and FICA for these stadium employees or can we just get past the basic concept that teams make their money off of us? Jesus.

[OHLArenaGuide]

I hate the idea of paying money to advertise someone's product.

Yes, I realize that technically wearing a jersey is a form of advertising, but that's different. Miller Lite should pay me if I'm going to be a billboard for them.

That's why I don't wear shirts that say "POLO" or "HILFIGER" really big accross them. There's no reason for it.

I agree with this; I do the same thing. I would have no problem whatsoever wearing a Nike wardrobe if the company was willing to pay me a reasonable price to do it, but I'm not spending my hard-earned money advertising their product. I cut the labels out of my blue jeans too, and I wear Hush Puppies that are brown leather and totally logo-free. (Thomas Frank's book "The Conquest of Cool" has some good insights about corporate advertising's assault on youth culture, for those interested).

The only jersey I own with a corporate mark on it is my Everton shirt, but it has One2One on it which is a company that has no presence in N.A. (and quite honestly I'm not even sure what they do). If one of the major sports did this, though, I wouldn't stop watching, but I certainly wouldn't buy any souvenirs with the mark on it.

[OMMF]

People don't want to see ads on unis cause ads are everywhere else and there is a feeling of ownership and entitlement inherent in their beloved teams. For right or wrong, we want to have a say in things...and frankly, as their customers, we deserve one.

Really? This doesn't apply to anywhere else you are a consumer. My grocery store chain puts ads on the carts and on the on the floors of the store. Customers complain but do we have to listen to them? Nope. You can "say" whatever you want but no one is obligated to listen whether you are buying a 3 dollar gallon of milk or a $3,000 set of season tickets.

[OMMF]

The only jersey I own with a corporate mark on it is my Everton shirt, but it has One2One on it which is a company that has no presence in N.A. (and quite honestly I'm not even sure what they do).  If one of the major sports did this, though, I wouldn't stop watching, but I certainly wouldn't buy any souvenirs with the mark on it.

They just became part of T-Mobile. They were/are a mobile phone service provider in the UK.

[Sterling84]

Really? This doesn't apply to anywhere else you are a consumer. My grocery store chain puts ads on the carts and on the on the floors of the store. Customers complain but do we have to listen to them? Nope. You can "say" whatever you want but no one is obligated to listen whether you are buying a 3 dollar gallon of milk or a $3,000 set of season tickets.

I dunno. YOu tell me. I guess not.

I don't think people view where they get their groceries with the same passion as which team they follow but I could be wrong. I'm not a "Pick N Save" fan from back in the day or a lifelong "Kohl's" man either. I could give a crap whats on the cart or the bags at a grocery store. I don't think the same applies to the average sports fan. There's a big difference between the two.

And whatever happened to "The customer is always right"?

[DEAD!]

And whatever happened to "The customer is always right"?

and to finish ..... "and even if they are wrong, they are right" ..... I think that "consumer is always right" phrase is not always true if you ask me. It's also the consumer's responsibility to look into what they purchase.

I like OHLArenaGuide's idea of not buying to wear a certain logo and cutting out labels. However, I don't think that companies should pay ordinary Joe to wear products with their logo on it. While it's a nice concept, many people pay to wear the logo as a fashion statement, show off to friends or just simply because they feel comfortable wearing those clothes. Also keep in mind that the ordinary Joe doesn't appear on TV or magazines, in other words no face recognition that would attract other people to him.

[OMMF]

Really? This doesn't apply to anywhere else you are a consumer. My grocery store chain puts ads on the carts and on the on the floors of the store. Customers complain but do we have to listen to them? Nope. You can "say" whatever you want but no one is obligated to listen whether you are buying a 3 dollar gallon of milk or a $3,000 set of season tickets.

I dunno. YOu tell me. I guess not.

I don't think people view where they get their groceries with the same passion as which team they follow but I could be wrong. I'm not a "Pick N Save" fan from back in the day or a lifelong "Kohl's" man either. I could give a crap whats on the cart or the bags at a grocery store. I don't think the same applies to the average sports fan. There's a big difference between the two.

And whatever happened to "The customer is always right"?

I guess that's my overall point. All these people, and yes including myself, invest all this time and energy into something that is no different than any other business venture out there. Tax breaks? Yep other private companies get those. Microsoft and Boeing are two that come to mind here in Seattle. Now a lot of people use Windows but Firefox is taking over. That would seem to suggest that Windows should do something to change. But if they are happy with their product and making enough money, why should they change for the people who are just going to take their money elsewhere? Same with sports teams. No one is forcing you to accept the changes the owner of this business is making. You're choosing to be a consumer of his product.

Ok, New Coke was one instance of the consumers winning a battle but aside from that...

[Sterling84]

I guess that's my overall point. All these people, and yes including myself, invest all this time and energy into something that is no different than any other business venture out there. Tax breaks? Yep other private companies get those. Microsoft and Boeing are two that come to mind here in Seattle. Now a lot of people use Windows but Firefox is taking over. That would seem to suggest that Windows should do something to change. But if they are happy with their product and making enough money, why should they change for the people who are just going to take their money elsewhere? Same with sports teams. No one is forcing you to accept the changes the owner of this business is making. You're choosing to be a consumer of his product.

Ok, New Coke was one instance of the consumers winning a battle but aside from that...

Agreed. And sorry to seem ornery this afternoon. Admittedly, my #1 fan SAVAGECOBRA has gotten under my skin a bit.

Customer outrage has worked in the New Coke instance and several other ones...including sports related decisions. Marquette's new name, the "neverminding" of the Packers switching to blue and gold, and the Spider-Man base paths.

We do have a voice as consumers, was my point. It's just that high-level professional sports are a virtual monopoly and the consumer has to play hard ball to get change enacted because the teams know they are the only show in town and know what sheep we are to our team loyalties.

I don't pay to go to Brewers or Bucks games anymore, don't watch them on television and don't buy their merchandise. Thats about all the power one guy has so thats what I do. That's me as a customer "complaining" but it would have to be on a far grander scale to stop ads on unis.

Until teams hear from us otherwise, I would expect them to carefully move in that direction.

It's too bad though, because that additional income isn't necessarily going to be used to field better teams or pass the savings on to us in ticket prices. It's pocket-lining material for ownership.

[Blue Falcon]

Does anyone remember hearing several years ago that Ted Turner was trying to start a new corporate-themed football league? This is no joke: Fed Ex was supposed to have a team with the Fed Ex logo on the helmet and purple/orange uniforms. I don't think it got beyond the planning stages, because a market research survey was done and it was discovered that fans weren't going to cheer for corporations!

[DEAD!]

Does anyone remember hearing several years ago that Ted Turner was trying to start a new corporate-themed football league? This is no joke: Fed Ex was supposed to have a team with the Fed Ex logo on the helmet and purple/orange uniforms. I don't think it got beyond the planning stages, because a market research survey was done and it was discovered that fans weren't going to cheer for corporations!

Except for their employees, of course. Could you imagine if Coca-Cola played Pepsi? One half of the stadium would serve Coke and the other half would serve Pepsi. How about Bud vs. Miller? Playboy vs. Hustler?

[pcgd]

I think FedEx was rumored to be a part of the grizzlies name when they were going to change their identity.

I think initially when they moved, there were going to be known as the Memphis Express and be sponsored by Federal Express. Their colors would be orange and blue.

I don't know how much truth there is to that, but I'm gonna go root for the Bank One Chicago Bears right now.

[OMMF]

Let us not forget the red and white clad Kentucky Colonels that never materialized in the NBA. Playing their home games at "The Bucket" in Louisville.

[Blue Falcon]

Hey, we could be on to something here. How about the Heinz Steelers being forced to add red (for ketchup) to their color scheme? Or the Pro Player Dolphins being forced to wear merchandise made by that bankrupt company? Invesco Broncos has a nice ring to it, while RCA Colts clearly does not!

[lost_limey]

Hey, we could be on to something here. How about the Heinz Steelers being forced to add red (for ketchup) to their color scheme? Or the Pro Player Dolphins being forced to wear merchandise made by that bankrupt company? Invesco Broncos has a nice ring to it, while RCA Colts clearly does not!

The FedEx Redskins, MCI Capitals, MCI Wizards, Armed Forces Nationals & TD Waterhouse Magic love this idea!

[Blue Falcon]

I must be bored: here's the NFL:

Gillette Patriots

Pro Player Dolphins

Giants Jets (?)

Rich Bills (ha!)

Heinz Steelers

Paul Brown Bengals (ha!)

Browns Browns (?)

PSINet Ravens

Reliant Texans

Adelphia Titans

Alltel Jaguars

RCA Colts

Invesco Broncos

Arrowhead Chiefs (?)

Qualcomm Chargers

Oakland Raiders (one that still makes sense)

FedEx Redskins

Texas Cowboys (?)

Giants Giants (?)

Lincoln Financial Eagles

Ford Lions

Metro Vikings

Soldier Bears

Lambeau Packers

Raymond James Buccaneers

Ericsson Panthers

Georgia Falcons

Super Saints

Trans World Rams

3COM 49ers

Sun Devil Cardinals

Qwest Seahawks

I know some don't make sense since they are not corporate names, so I just put part of the stadium name for their title.

[Bleujayone]

Keep in mind that in Arena football, not only are there corporate patches on the walls, the field and the uniforms, but also at least two teams in league history were named after companies. The Miami Hooters (later called became the Florida Bobcats) were named after the resturant chain which owned them, and the New Jersey Red Dogs (now the Las Vegas Gladiators) named after the brewery. Both teams had the company colors and a variation or the corporate moniker. Teams named after companies is already a reality.