Pens for Sale

[jkrdevil]

The Pittsburgh Penguins have been put up for sale.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2298291

[Shumway]

*scrounges for loose change* I'll take em. I think 93 cents is enough for the Penguins.

[Sharky99MB]

Now if someone in Winnipeg would buy the Pens and move them here... we would be all set if it happens!!! OH yeah and make the Manitoba Moose our farm team for the Winnipeg Penguins (or any other names!!) hehe... I know, I'm dreaming on that anyways...hehe... cant help it..

[Ez Street]

KC or Houston, here they come.

[Bleujayone]

Now if someone in Winnipeg would buy the Pens and move them here... we would be all set if it happens!!! OH yeah and make the Manitoba Moose our farm team for the Winnipeg Penguins (or any other names!!) hehe... I know, I'm dreaming on that anyways...hehe... cant help it..

If thats the case, why not change the Manitoba Moose into the Winnipeg Jets, make that the main NHL team with the Pittsburgh Pens as the AHL farm team, and pay the SWB Pens to switch to the SWB Moose? That way no city looses their team.

[yh]

Damn, I came to this thread looking to score some Mont Blancs.

Hopefully the team stays in Pittsburgh and a new owner comes in with a workable plan to improve the team's lot from a facility and personnel standpoint. Seems as if this is a franchise that has had to muddle through with a caretaker ownership and management dynamic for just a bit too long. I'm hoping the same won't happen to my Blues but it's sure looking that way. If the prospects dim for a group willing to keep the team in town then I'm certainly behind any effort to move them to KC. Perhaps this will send the Jackets east and give the Blues another regional rival. From a quality of play standpoint this would seem to be a fairly even swap right now.

[Neon_Matrix]

Our good pal Ecklund over at hockeybuzz.com seems to think the Pens will move to Toronto (aka Hamilton) or Portland. I'd personally HATE to see them come to Toronto, but I dobut they are moving at all.

[PittsburghSucks]

KC or Houston, here they come.

Not so fast. Cleveland is a canidate. Cavaliers & Quicken Loans Arena owner Dan Gilbert has mad cash and want to own an NHL team too. This could very well happen.

[HatCityEnforcer]

KC or Houston, here they come.

Not so fast. Cleveland is a canidate. Cavaliers & Quicken Loans Arena owner Dan Gilbert has mad cash and want to own an NHL team too. This could very well happen.

Cleveland? Are you fluffing NUTS?...it's come up before, but when you lose out to a place like Raleigh (Cleveland was on the short list for the Whalers back in '97...and that was with the Gund/Q open), it's kinda not looking good for landing a team.

You guys couldn't even keep an AHL or an IHL team afloat...what makes you think the NHL would be a roaring success?

[Ez Street]

KC or Houston, here they come.

Not so fast. Cleveland is a canidate. Cavaliers & Quicken Loans Arena owner Dan Gilbert has mad cash and want to own an NHL team too. This could very well happen.

Cleveland? Are you fluffing NUTS?...it's come up before, but when you lose out to a place like Raleigh (Cleveland was on the short list for the Whalers back in '97...and that was with the Gund/Q open), it's kinda not looking good for landing a team.

You guys couldn't even keep an AHL or an IHL team afloat...what makes you think the NHL would be a roaring success?

Minor = Major is a bad comparison. You could say the smae about KC if that was the case.

KC will be going after this team hard again. The Mayor tried to get them to move here in the early 90's.

[rams80]

Our good pal Ecklund over at hockeybuzz.com seems to think the Pens will move to Toronto (aka Hamilton) or Portland. I'd personally HATE to see them come to Toronto, but I dobut they are moving at all.

I think Eklund has been doing drugs again...

Hamilton is out because either Toronto or Buffalo or both will make buying the territorial rights cost prohibitive

Portland seems to be more focused on landing the Marlins than any hockey team (although it would be nice to have them in the league).

KC has a brand new arena, no competition over the winter, and is IMO "safe" enough to get a team in terms of likely fanbase. (It's not so far south so as to offend the anti-sunbelt faction in the NHL fanbase and I seem to recall that the Blades were fairly successful during their run.)

Houston's attraction is its size and the potential to further the growth of the game across the country. (Because, you know, that is the whole point behind expansion in the first place )

Columbus serves (at least in Bettman's eyes) as Ohio's hockey team. Also I think that the major league scene in Cleveland may be saturated at this point.

Here is what IMO is the NHL's relocation/expansion priority list.

1A-Houston

1B-Kansas City

2-Winnipeg

3-Portland

4-Oklahoma City

5A-Quebec City

5B-Milwaukee

6-Las Vegas

7-Hartford

8-Salt Lake City

9-Cleveland/Cincinnati

10-Hamilton

11-Maritimes

(note, for the NHL to get beyond OKC in the Priority list, massive changes are going to have to happen in the other markets or the NHL is going to greatly expand.)

EDIT-how the did I forget Milwaukee

[yh]

KC or Houston, here they come.

Not so fast. Cleveland is a canidate. Cavaliers & Quicken Loans Arena owner Dan Gilbert has mad cash and want to own an NHL team too. This could very well happen.

Cleveland? Are you fluffing NUTS?

You guys can't even keep an AHL team afloat...what makes you think the NHL would be a roaring success? It'd be like the NHL Barons all over again.

Well, in all fairness, minor league hockey has failed in markets where the NHL has subsequently succeeded, so that's not a strong argument.

I think the factor that weighs heavily against Cleveland's NHL prospects is the fact that Columbus seems to be establishing itself as a nice NHL town and to place a second team in Ohio could stand to jeopardize the success of both franchises.

[HatCityEnforcer]

KC or Houston, here they come.

Not so fast. Cleveland is a canidate. Cavaliers & Quicken Loans Arena owner Dan Gilbert has mad cash and want to own an NHL team too. This could very well happen.

Cleveland? Are you fluffing NUTS?

You guys can't even keep an AHL team afloat...what makes you think the NHL would be a roaring success? It'd be like the NHL Barons all over again.

Well, in all fairness, minor league hockey has failed in markets where the NHL has subsequently succeeded, so that's not a strong argument.

I think the factor that weighs heavily against Cleveland's NHL prospects is the fact that Columbus seems to be establishing itself as a nice NHL town and to place a second team in Ohio could stand to jeopardize the success of both franchises.

Cleveland's case was an exact reversal....

The NHL Barons were an unmitigated disaster. I mean, they were the last team in the NHL to be folded (technically, they merged with the equally-struggling Minnesota North Stars back in 1978...if they didn't do that, the NHL would have lost 2 teams).

The IHL Lumberjacks (at least until the owner screwed things up so badly that the team went under) were a pretty good success out at Richland Coliseum and the Gund...

When they went under, it pretty much left a very sour taste in everyone's mouth out there in Cleveland....which is what shocked me when the AHL decided to move the Kentucky T-Blades to Cleveland (granted the Gunds at the time still owned the Sharks and the arena in Cleveland).

How they survived 5 years with abysmal attendance (we're talking 1/4 capacity (and this place seats about 18K for hockey easy)..a probable break-even point for an AHL team playing in a building that size would have to be around 6-7K a night...they've never even sniffed that) is beyond me.

IMO, the Cleveland market for hockey has been deader than Elvis since the late 70s....

[yh]

KC or Houston, here they come.

Not so fast. Cleveland is a canidate. Cavaliers & Quicken Loans Arena owner Dan Gilbert has mad cash and want to own an NHL team too. This could very well happen.

Cleveland? Are you fluffing NUTS?

You guys can't even keep an AHL team afloat...what makes you think the NHL would be a roaring success? It'd be like the NHL Barons all over again.

Well, in all fairness, minor league hockey has failed in markets where the NHL has subsequently succeeded, so that's not a strong argument.

I think the factor that weighs heavily against Cleveland's NHL prospects is the fact that Columbus seems to be establishing itself as a nice NHL town and to place a second team in Ohio could stand to jeopardize the success of both franchises.

Cleveland's case was an exact reversal....

The NHL Barons were an unmitigated disaster. I mean, they were the last team in the NHL to be folded (technically, they merged with the equally-struggling Minnesota North Stars back in 1978...if they didn't do that, the NHL would have lost 2 teams).

The IHL Lumberjacks (at least until the owner screwed things up so badly that the team went under) were a pretty good success out at Richland Coliseum and the Gund...

When they went under, it pretty much left a very sour taste in everyone's mouth out there in Cleveland....which is what shocked me when the AHL decided to move the Kentucky T-Blades to Cleveland (granted the Gunds at the time still owned the Sharks and the arena in Cleveland).

How they survived 5 years with abysmal attendance (we're talking 1/4 capacity (and this place seats about 18K for hockey easy)..a probable break-even point for an AHL team playing in a building that size would have to be around 6-7K a night...they've never even sniffed that) is beyond me.

IMO, the Cleveland market for hockey has been deader than Elvis since the late 70s....

I don't want to get into a protracted debate about Cleveland's NHL prospects because I think we're in agreement that they are close to nil, however I do want to state that it's not really fair to use the NHL Barons as a supporting factor for our shared conclusion.

The Barons, f/k/a the California Golden Seals were a franchise in a shambles when they were ported off to Cleveland. To make matters worse, the team had to play in the Richfield Coliseum which was 45 minutes out of Cleveland proper. Let's not forget that during the years the Barons played in the NHL (1976-78) the country was experiencing an oil shortage which made gasoline a scarce commodity. Folks weren't exactly clamoring to get in their cars to go anywhere, especially to see a bad, transplanted hockey team 45 miles away. So the deck was stacked against the Barons from Day 1. I have no doubt that with a convenient, modern downtown arena and the right marketing tools, a Cleveland NHL team could fare much better than the NHL Barons or any minor league team. I just don't think the league would want to take the chance, especially since (1) there's always a possibility of failure and (2) it could hurt Columbus's standing as well.

[Mac the Knife]

Are you fluffing NUTS?...it's come up before, but when you lose out to a place like Raleigh

Look at what I'm about to say very closely.

YOU.

"to a place like Raleigh?" Go yourself.

[PittsburghSucks]

Cleveland?  Are you fluffing NUTS?...it's come up before, but when you lose out to a place like Raleigh (Cleveland was on the short list for the Whalers back in '97...and that was with the Gund/Q open), it's kinda not looking good for landing a team.

You guys couldn't even keep an AHL or an IHL team afloat...what makes you think the NHL would be a roaring success?

Let me tell you why the Whalers didn't relocate to Cleveland in 1997. Back then the Gund brothers were owners of the Cavaliers, Gund Arena (now known as the Q), and the San Jose Sharks. At the time the Cavs were one of the worst run teams (if not the worst) in the NBA. As the Gunds had controle of the arena and weren't about to move their Sharks to Cleveland, they didn't want an NHL team they didn't own playing in their arena. They knew that an NHL team in Cleveland competeing for customers would kill their Cavs. If not for the Gund brothers the Whalers would be playing today at the Q as the NHL Cleveland Barons.

Why it would work today.

Dan Gilbert owns the Cavalier & the arena now. His Cavs with super star LeBron James are one of the best run & money making team in all of sports. Dan loves the NHL and would very much like to own an NHL team to play in his arena. As owner of both the Cleveland NBA & NHL teams it's a win win situation for him. If he can get an NHL team for the Q he will.

Major league hockey will work in Cleveland. Minor league hockey can't draw in a major city playing in an 18,000 seat arena.

[agentrygraphics]

The Pens to Cleveland? What a monster insult / nightmare scenario for any Pittsburgher...one of their teams moving to "the mistake on the lake".

[VitaminD]

Dan Gilbert owns the Cavalier & the arena now. His Cavs with super star LeBron James are one of the best run & money making team in all of sports. Dan loves the NHL and would very much like to own an NHL team to play in his arena. As owner of both the Cleveland NBA & NHL teams it's a win win situation for him. If he can get an NHL team for the Q he will.

The Cavs make money because of Lebron James. What happens when he leaves for greener pastures? Will they still be a well-run, moneymaking team? Get back to us in a year or 2. My point is, it's easy to look like a sports genius when you buy a team that has the current version of The Next One already under contract. It's keeping him, keeping him happy and building a winning team that'll take some skill.

[PittsburghSucks]

Dan Gilbert owns the Cavalier & the arena now. His Cavs with super star LeBron James are one of the best run & money making team in all of sports. Dan loves the NHL and would very much like to own an NHL team to play in his arena. As owner of both the Cleveland NBA & NHL teams it's a win win situation for him. If he can get an NHL team for the Q he will.

The Cavs make money because of Lebron James. What happens when he leaves for greener pastures? Will they still be a well-run, moneymaking team? Get back to us in a year or 2. My point is, it's easy to look like a sports genius when you buy a team that has the current version of The Next One already under contract. It's keeping him, keeping him happy and building a winning team that'll take some skill.

Sorry, but LeBrons not going anywhere. He LOVES playing in his home town and would LOVE nothing more then to bring a championship to Cleveland.

[rams80]

Let me tell you why the Whalers didn't relocate to Cleveland in 1997. Back then the Gund brothers were owners of the Cavaliers, Gund Arena (now known as the Q), and the San Jose Sharks. At the time the Cavs were one of the worst run teams (if not the worst) in the NBA. As the Gunds had controle of the arena and weren't about to move their Sharks to Cleveland, they didn't want an NHL team they didn't own playing in their arena. They knew that an NHL team in Cleveland competeing for customers would kill their Cavs. If not for the Gund brothers the Whalers would be playing today at the Q as the NHL Cleveland Barons.

Why it would work today.

Dan Gilbert owns the Cavalier & the arena now. His Cavs with super star LeBron James are one of the best run & money making team in all of sports. Dan loves the NHL and would very much like to own an NHL team to play in his arena. As owner of both the Cleveland NBA & NHL teams it's a win win situation for him. If he can get an NHL team for the Q he will.

Major league hockey will work in Cleveland. Minor league hockey can't draw in a major city playing in an 18,000 seat arena.

Correction-Gilbert doesn't want the NHL per se. He wants the 40 arena dates that a hockey team would provide, so I think he'd be just as happy with an AHL team, an ECHL team, shoot a SPHL team.

Cleveland Cavaliers were struggling without "The Next One". There is still a good chance that they will struggle again once he leaves for a bigger market. How do you think a NHL team would fare going toe-to-toe with a basketball team in a market that has apparently fickle fans and a limited amount of sports dollars. Again, I don't think Cleveland can support 4 major league teams.