Yankees' Color Mismatch

[rebelx]

Why does no one ever bring up the fact that the Yankees' logo colors and uniform colors don't match? How come the Bronx Bombers didn't decide to use a logo with at least SOME navy in it, or incorporate royal blue and red into their uniforms at all? Did this just stem from one of those weird, early 20th-century graphic design philosophies? Everybody's so used to it and all, but seriously, it's really damn weird. Is there any other major sports team that has that kind of mismatch?

And no, I don't want to hear about the Cowboys' home uni problems; we've beaten those to death. Besides, I wouldn't consider their mismatch to be on this level.

[ColeJ]

i don't even really think of the yankees primary logo as being the logo with red and royal.

i think of it as the cap logo.

i think a lot of people would agree with me there, if you asked them on the street.

either way, i'd rather they just drop that logo than incorporate any new colors into their unis.

[Discrim]

heh, i figure nobody bitches about it much cus the closest it usually comes to appearing on the field is the dugout jackets.

[BallWonk]

Because the Yankees are sacred. Their uniforms were actually handed down by God in Leviticus, spelled out in the Sermon on the Mount, and carefully delineated in one of the early shuras. It's a little known fact that Joseph Smith was originally run out of Palmyra, New York, for saying that God told him the Yankees should add a little red trim. And the recently uncovered Gospel of Judas claims that Judas did not in fact hang himself and get buried in a potter's field, but actually settled in Judea to found his own church based on the idea that a New York team should wear both blue and black.

Actually, I suspect it's because this is true of so many baseball teams. I suspect it's thanks to New Era deciding to make production easier, but over the last 15 years most teams that wear true navy have seen their caps change to Yankees-matching midnight blue. Not too long ago, there were several different shades of red in use -- the Cardinals and the Dodgers, for example, used different shades on their stitching -- but now New Era makes every team's red cap with the same material. I spoke last year with a New Era rep, and he was quite open about how they handle the whole big leagues with a few big production runs of red and what they call navy (Yankees midnight blue), with shorter, less frequent production runs for teams with more distinctive colors or combinations.

The worst thing is that as a result, several teams don't even have matching uniforms anymore. The prime example is the Minnesota Twins. They have true navy pinstripes, true navy tackle twill on their letters, and true navy alternate shirts. But they now wear Yankees-matching midnight blue ballcaps that visibly clash with the rest of the blue in their uniforms. Why? Why did the Red Sox, for example, switch from true navy to Yankees midnight blue? Why do the Nats, whose colors are supposed to reflect the flag for crying out loud, wear Yankees midnight blue caps instead of the true navy that's actually on the flag? The Milwaukee Brewers have managed to keep using true navy for their ballcaps; what makes it possible for that sorry organization to maintain some standards while the rest of the league switches to uniforms that don't actually match their official colors?

Perhaps Pantone can explain the nearly league-wide switch from true navy to Yankees midnight blue.

[BBTV]

PANTONE addressed this a while back, and posted an excellent recolor of the Yankees primary logo.

[The_Admiral]

I suspect it's thanks to New Era deciding to make production easier, but over the last 15 years most teams that wear true navy have seen their caps change to Yankees-matching midnight blue. Not too long ago, there were several different shades of red in use -- the Cardinals and the Dodgers, for example, used different shades on their stitching -- but now New Era makes every team's red cap with the same material. I spoke last year with a New Era rep, and he was quite open about how they handle the whole big leagues with a few big production runs of red and what they call navy (Yankees midnight blue), with shorter, less frequent production runs for teams with more distinctive colors or combinations.

The worst thing is that as a result, several teams don't even have matching uniforms anymore. The prime example is the Minnesota Twins. They have true navy pinstripes, true navy tackle twill on their letters, and true navy alternate shirts. But they now wear Yankees-matching midnight blue ballcaps that visibly clash with the rest of the blue in their uniforms. Why? Why did the Red Sox, for example, switch from true navy to Yankees midnight blue? Why do the Nats, whose colors are supposed to reflect the flag for crying out loud, wear Yankees midnight blue caps instead of the true navy that's actually on the flag? The Milwaukee Brewers have managed to keep using true navy for their ballcaps; what makes it possible for that sorry organization to maintain some standards while the rest of the league switches to uniforms that don't actually match their official colors?

Okay, you're absolutely right, but what does any of that have to do with the hat-and-bat Yankees logo?

[DGivens87]

Why did the Red Sox, for example, switch from true navy to Yankees midnight blue?

Ack! Blasphemy!

But seriously, I've been a Sox fan since '88, and their cap has always looked about the same shade of navy throughout. When did they default to Yankee midnight blue?

[walkdesign]

I think it is a simple case of technology vs. tradition.

If you remember until only about the early '90's, teams that wore the color "gold" like FSU and ND were really using yellow in a lot of the marketing materials and even there uniforms. I think standards in sports were much more lax and any old athletic director or school store manager just ordered any old thing and a lot of the time they weren't concerned or didn't realize the difference. To be honest, the average person today doesn't see that when Sportscenter presents a story on the Yankees, they use the "NY" from the jerseys on a baby blue background. Most people don't realize there are in fact "2" NY's. The NY from the hat (which is the best one in my opinion) and the NY from the Jersey that is more blocky and less streamlined looking.

Until Nike got involved more in College sports and other branding companies, I think that a lot of teams didn't even have a style guide, they just sort of went with what they that looked right. So when these style guides came into play I think teams like the Yankees and the Cowboys took these idiosyncrasies and coined them "tradition" to get around to having to change them because they did become part of the fabric of the teams identity.

Here is the '06 Yankee style guide. In it you can see that they have embraced the color differences.

[TruColor]

Because the Yankees are sacred. Their uniforms were actually handed down by God in Leviticus, spelled out in the Sermon on the Mount, and carefully delineated in one of the early shuras. It's a little known fact that Joseph Smith was originally run out of Palmyra, New York, for saying that God told him the Yankees should add a little red trim. And the recently uncovered Gospel of Judas claims that Judas did not in fact hang himself and get buried in a potter's field, but actually settled in Judea to found his own church based on the idea that a New York team should wear both blue and black.

Actually, I suspect it's because this is true of so many baseball teams. I suspect it's thanks to New Era deciding to make production easier, but over the last 15 years most teams that wear true navy have seen their caps change to Yankees-matching midnight blue. Not too long ago, there were several different shades of red in use -- the Cardinals and the Dodgers, for example, used different shades on their stitching -- but now New Era makes every team's red cap with the same material. I spoke last year with a New Era rep, and he was quite open about how they handle the whole big leagues with a few big production runs of red and what they call navy (Yankees midnight blue), with shorter, less frequent production runs for teams with more distinctive colors or combinations.

The worst thing is that as a result, several teams don't even have matching uniforms anymore. The prime example is the Minnesota Twins. They have true navy pinstripes, true navy tackle twill on their letters, and true navy alternate shirts. But they now wear Yankees-matching midnight blue ballcaps that visibly clash with the rest of the blue in their uniforms. Why? Why did the Red Sox, for example, switch from true navy to Yankees midnight blue? Why do the Nats, whose colors are supposed to reflect the flag for crying out loud, wear Yankees midnight blue caps instead of the true navy that's actually on the flag? The Milwaukee Brewers have managed to keep using true navy for their ballcaps; what makes it possible for that sorry organization to maintain some standards while the rest of the league switches to uniforms that don't actually match their official colors?

Perhaps Pantone can explain the nearly league-wide switch from true navy to Yankees midnight blue.

OK...this is all hurting my head.

This "Midnight Navy Blue" thing is just a name. The Red Sox and Yankees didn't actually change colors - just the color description. I'm not sure why the change was made to tell you the truth.

As most of you know, there are Solid Colors - used for printing, and Textile Colors - used for fabrics. There are also Thread Colors, Twill Colors, Inks, Process Simulation Colors, etc., but for this, I'm just going to address the Solids and Textiles.

Here's a graphic put together in my database to show this mess:

The "Solid Blue" colors refer to Solid Colors, and the "Textile Blue" colors obviously refer to the fabrics.

In this graphic, the first two "Solid Blues" are actually the same Pantone color. "Solid Blue 1" is called "Midnight Navy Blue", while the other teams (Indians, Twins and Mariners) just call it "Navy Blue".

Now, look at the Textile section, and see that the "Midnight Navy Blue" teams all use "Blue Nights" (these are the actual descriptions given by Pantone, Inc. to it's Textiles). The Indians (along with the Cubs' BP jersey, Padres and Nationals) use "Deep Cobalt" while the Twins and Mariners use "Insignia Blue".

There's not always a one-to-one match between the Solid Colors and the Textiles.

I think the "Midnight Navy Blue" designation may have came out of the idea that these teams all use the "Blue Nights" textile. I don't know.

Does this make sense?

[TruColor]

Until Nike got involved more in College sports and other branding companies, I think that a lot of teams didn't even have a style guide, they just sort of went with what they that looked right. So when these style guides came into play I think teams like the Yankees and the Cowboys took these idiosyncrasies and coined them "tradition" to get around to having to change them because they did become part of the fabric of the teams identity.

The MLB has had a Style Guiide since at least 1980. I know that the NFL has had them since at least 1970...although Pantone colors didn't begin to be equated to ink and fabrics until around 1980 or so (for most leagues).

(I hope the MLB doesn't mind you posting that Yankees' graphic!)

[tmorss9]

Actually, aren't there 4 "NY" logos? I know the Authentic Game jersey has one that looks a little blockier than the BP jersey logo (and replica jerseys, for that matter) does, and the hat is not quite as sharp as the logo on the helmets (the helmet logo being the one in the Yankee graphic above).

[The_Admiral]

Wait, baby blue background for the Yankees on Sportscenter? What?

[Gothamite]

Actually, aren't there 4 "NY" logos? I know the Authentic Game jersey has one that looks a little blockier than the BP jersey logo (and replica jerseys, for that matter) does, and the hat is not quite as sharp as the logo on the helmets (the helmet logo being the one in the Yankee graphic above).

You're right. I know there are four "NY" logos:

• Home Uniform
  
• Cap
  
• Helmet
  
• Print
  

What they have listed as "Cap & Helmet Designations" is the print logo. It doesn't actually appear on any uniforms (although it may have appeared on jackets in the past).

A thicker version of the print logo may be found on the helmets. The cap logo is not as different from the print logo as the print logo is from the uniform logo, but it is different.

[BallWonk]

OK...this is all hurting my head.

This "Midnight Navy Blue" thing is just a name.  The Red Sox and Yankees didn't actually change colors - just the color description.  I'm not sure why the change was made to tell you the truth.

...

All I'm really saying is that:

A) The Minnesota Twins used to wear true navy caps. As recently as the early 1990s.

The Yankees have for a long time now worn a much darker-than-navy cap. On its own, the Yankees cap looks almost black. Only in bright sunlight, or when held immediately next to an actual black cap, can the eye really be sure that it isn't black.

C) The navy blue caps the Twins were wearing as recently as the early 1990s looked decidedly different -- much brighter and bluer -- than a modern Yankees cap, though still a very dark blue that most people would call "navy." (To my eye, the change seems to have been roughly coincidental with the advent of the puffy, raised-foam-shape embroidering.)

D) Today, of you go to the store and hold a Twins cap next to a Yankees cap, they're made of the exact same color of fabric. So are the Nats, the Red Sox, and pretty much every other team that uses something approaching navy blue in their logos.

E) But at least two teams -- the Indians and the Brewers -- still use actual navy blue fabric that is today almost identical to the color of my old Twins caps and distinctly brighter and bluer than the midnight blue used by the Yankees, Twins, Nats, Red Sox, et al.

So there was a change, at least for the Twins, and it has nothing to do with the names of colors changing or anything like that. This is about a decision somebody (multiple somebodies, probably) made to change from one color to another color. The Twins (and, based on older caps I've seen, the Red Sox) used to use color A. Now they use color B. But other teams continue to use color A. What gives? Is it pressure from New Era to make production simpler? Or was Yankees blue the unnoticed black of the 1990s, with team after team switching from their traditional navy to the darker hue in a bout of marketing me-tooism that passed completely under the radar? Or is this yet another sign that aliens are quietly interfering with human history to steer our development toward factory-pig-like uniformity of mental outlook and fat content?

Anyway, my theory as to why nobody complains about the Yankees uniforms not matching the much lighter blue of their logo is that we're all so inured to seeing ballclubs wear uniforms that don't match their logos that we don't think twice about the Yankees even when we notice the difference.

[TruColor]

The Twins changed their shade of Navy Blue (at least officially) in 1996. Pantone Textiles have only been designated in MLB since 1996, so I can't speak for the different manufacturers' fabrics before then. And, it's hard to say sometimes if these manufacturers are actually really using these Pantone Textile colors anyway.

And, who's to say what "true Navy" is?

[The_Admiral]

Maybe the Navy

[nwtrailtrekker]

i think they should just drop the logo witht he baseball and the "Yankees" script. it's not found anywhere so why not?

[ebod39]

Actually, aren't there 4 "NY" logos? I know the Authentic Game jersey has one that looks a little blockier than the BP jersey logo (and replica jerseys, for that matter) does, and the hat is not quite as sharp as the logo on the helmets (the helmet logo being the one in the Yankee graphic above).

You're right. I know there are four "NY" logos:

• Home Uniform
  
• Cap
  
• Helmet
  
• Print
  

What they have listed as "Cap & Helmet Designations" is the print logo. It doesn't actually appear on any uniforms (although it may have appeared on jackets in the past).

A thicker version of the print logo may be found on the helmets. The cap logo is not as different from the print logo as the print logo is from the uniform logo, but it is different.

I was always had the understanding that New Era holds the rights to the NY cap artwork, which makes theirs the truest representation of the logo. Which is why if you look closely at other manufacturers NY's they're slightly different and maybe closer to the jersey version. they are the only ones allowed to do reproduce and sell that distinct version of the interlock NY.

I worked at New Era for a while, that's one thing I remember them talking about, that their NY artwork dates back to the 1930's or something.

[Gothamite]

I was always had the understanding that New Era holds the rights to the NY cap artwork, which makes theirs the truest representation of the logo. Which is why if you look closely at other manufacturers NY's they're slightly different and maybe closer to the jersey version. they are the only ones allowed to do reproduce and sell that distinct version of the interlock NY.

I worked at New Era for a while, that's one thing I remember them talking about, that their NY artwork dates back to the 1930's or something.

I don't know about that.

Why would the Yankees give up the right to their own cap logo, so not even they could use it? It doesn't make sense.

I always chalked it up to laziness, myself. Or George liking the print logo, but being unwilling to change the caps to match.

[ebod39]

I was always had the understanding that New Era holds the rights to the NY cap artwork, which makes theirs the truest representation of the logo. Which is why if you look closely at other manufacturers NY's they're slightly different and maybe closer to the jersey version. they are the only ones allowed to do reproduce and sell that distinct version of the interlock NY.

I worked at New Era for a while, that's one thing I remember them talking about, that their NY artwork dates back to the 1930's or something.

I don't know about that.

Why would the Yankees give up the right to their own cap logo, so not even they could use it? It doesn't make sense.

I always chalked it up to laziness, myself. Or George liking the print logo, but being unwilling to change the caps to match.

What I am saying is that New Era created their cap version of the NY way back when and because of that they have a grandfathred clause that allows only them to use that distinct embroidery file for the on-field 5950. I am only speaking about

the NY found on the 5950, not the interlock NY as an overall logo. Just the distinct version only found on the 5950. the art is slightly different than what you will find

on any other caps.

perhaps "hold the right" was the wrong choice of words.