Cheif illiniwek may be retired

[STL FANATIC]

This would be horrible if they retire him. I don't even care about the other so called disrespectful names, Cheif Illiniwek in no way disrespects Native Americans.

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http://www.dailyillini.com/nov03/nov11/new...s_story01.shtml

Board of Trustees to vote on Chief retirement

Anne Gleason

Staff writer

The University Board of Trustees may vote on a resolution proposing to retire University symbol Chief Illiniwek at the board meeting on Thursday.

The resolution asks that Chief Illiniwek be retired at a time and manner to be determined based on what students, faculty members, staff and alumni at the Urbana campus want.

If passed, the Chief will be removed as a symbol, but the Board will continue to support the Fighting Illini name.

Several board members said Trustee Frances Carroll was a supporter of the resolution.

Carroll's phone line was busy last night and she was not available for comment.

Trustee Marjorie Sodemann said she had spoken to both Carroll and Student Trustee Nate Allen about the resolution, and said both were "wanting it to happen." However, Sodemann didn't think it was the right time to be voting on the Chief.

"I would prefer it to not have been on the agenda ... It came very suddenly," she said. "I oppose it, and I will vote to retain the Chief."

Allen said he believed it's in the best interest of the University to retire the Chief and plans to vote for the resolution on Thursday.

Trustee Robert Sperling said he had not yet made a decision on the issue.

The Board last discussed the fate of the Chief in 2002 when former trustee Roger Plummer presented his report, which said there can be no compromise on the Chief issue -- it should either stay as the University symbol or be removed.

Stephen Kaufman, a University professor who represented faculty members against the Chief during the Chief Illiniwek dialogues, said he will be attending the meeting Thursday and has asked for an opportunity to speak. He said the action would be positive if "the board is going to act on that resolution."

Chief supporters also plan to attend the meeting. Both Dan Bolin of Students for Chief Illiniwek and Roger Huddleston of the Honor the Chief Society said they would attend the meeting to support the Chief.

Bolin said Students for Chief Illiniwek declared this week Chief Week and plan to hold a rally on the Quad this Thursday. The group had planned Chief Week before they found out about the resolution, he said.

Huddleston said he was looking forward to hearing the decision of the board.

"I would certainly hope that integrity wins that day," he said. "I think the University and the people that support the University are going to be the big winners."

Demian Kogan, president of the Progressive Action/Resource Cooperative, which opposes the Chief, said PRC was encouraged to see a board member acting to eliminate the Chief. However, he said PRC would also like the University to eliminate the name Fighting Illini.

"This is a huge positive first step in the right direction," Kogan said.

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[JQK]

Demian Kogan, president of the Progressive Action/Resource Cooperative, which opposes the Chief, said PRC was encouraged to see a board member acting to eliminate the Chief. However, he said PRC would also like the University to eliminate the name Fighting Illini.

"This is a huge positive first step in the right direction," Kogan said.

Ass.

Hole.

[BRice16]

I know last year when their women's basketball team came here for the NCAA Tourney their sports info. dept. insisted that we use the "I" logo instead of the Indian head. They said under no circumstances should the indian be used. I guess this has been a long time coming.

B

[Avenger]

Man, the Chief head logo is so cool, and not at all deragatory. What a shame.

[Discrim]

i got an idea for whoever's making this decision: get the actual tribe's opinion before doing anything else.  We all know the Seminole tribe supports Florida State's use of their name, and i once read somewhere the Illini tribe feels the same way about Illinois' name.  hell, how do they think the state of Illinois got its name? :angry:

[CDunn]

Chief Wahoo:derogatory

Chief Illiniwek:  not derogatory

Simple.

[STL FANATIC]

I know last year when their women's basketball team came here for the NCAA Tourney their sports info. dept. insisted that we use the "I" logo instead of the Indian head. They said under no circumstances should the indian be used. I guess this has been a long time coming.

B

Yeah, they've been slowing the use of the logo for a while, but I'm not sure that was so much because the people in charge wanted it done, or if they didn't wanna bother with the PC people. I really hope this doesn't go throught. Please oh please don't let it go through.

[rtrich11]

I would like to see if the Illini tribe had a particular symbol that represents who they are. Of course if fans and players wore that exact symbol it would lose its significance. Perhaps the tribe and school could work out a symbol that incorporates Illinois and the Illini marks. I dunno. Thinking out loud.

[moose97]

This reminds me of what happened at North Dakota.  The Fighting Sioux has been a controversial name for quite some time, but the majority of Sioux tribes have supported the University's use of the name.  Some liberal PC folks think they know what's best for the Sioux people, and try to force the University to remove the name and logo (FWIW, the Chicago Blackhawks logo was used for a long period of time).  Eventualy, although the controversy hasn't died, they had a well respected Sioux artist design the new logo, and there seems to be less noise about it.

If I'm Illinois, I'd do the same thing.  Make sure the tribes are behind you, and ask a Illini artist to design the new logo (or have an Illini focus group come to a consensus).

Moose

[impulsive106]

Last Sunday, I attended a meeting in my residence hall's multicultural council and this is what we discussed exactly. We watched a news story on Charlene Teters, a former U of I-Champaign grad student, that protested Chief Illiniwek and the other "exploitations" of Native Americans in sports branding in 1989.

Some might remember this, but for those who don't, she stated that as a Native American, that she felt offended while at a basketball game halftime show. During that show at U of I, there was a young student that paraded around the court in semi-traditional garb, which seemed to totally trivialize the customs of Native American tribes; it even made her children embarrassed and brought tears to her eyes. Her investigation into Chief Illiniwek brought out the facts that the Chief is fictional and has NO tribal backing. She questioned the "mascot" himself during an unsupposed press conference about his role, he replied that it was like a religious ritual, and she replied that religion has no place in entertainment, especially in that type of forum (would Jews, Catholics, or any other religion accept that?).

While watching, I saw how people clinged to tradition and the pride of it, and also the role of money with the alumni of U of I as a factor of them not changing their athletic identity. I saw how ignorant and non-willing people were to actually hear Teters' and other protesters out on their issues. It really opened my eyes as far as how Native Americans were (i.e. St. John's, Eastern Michigan, etc.) and still are (i.e. Cleveland Indians, Redskins, Chief Illiniwek, etc.) exploited in sports branding today.

That documentary helped me to look past the logo, or really look into it and what it represents. One story that touched me, was when Native American students were scared to walk down a road at U of Iowa during an Illinois game, because there were dummies of dead Native Americans hung on trees. It helped to realize that although they are a relatively minute percentage of the population, they are still people, and these logos perpetuate their inferiority even more in this country.

My final question: Would you like it if an institution who knew nothing but the superficialities of your culture and/or race made a logo of it, and trivialized it by taking their own spin of it and the stereotypes that accompanies it? How would that feel to you?

[Avenger]

First off, everyone seems to relate political correctness to liberals, which isn't neccessarily true. I know just as many ardent conservatives who are as PC as liberals. I'm not trying to turn this into a political debate, but I find it hard to blame liberals for this ongoing debate.

Secondly, getting a little more back on topic, I think San Diego State should be a model for schools who are in this predicament. The Aztec decendents took offense to the bright red runnin' cartoon logo, so SDSU consulted them, along with alumni, marketing firms, their student body, and community leaders in a stream-lined, efficient way. At the end of the day, it was still the university's final decision, which eliminated contradiction that can plague the design process, but they addressed most concerns and came up with a refreshed identity that, IMO, is far superior. Everything was smoothed over, and it turned out to be a pretty win-win-win situation.

[NJTank]

Political Corectness is going to ruin this country. Its destroying the first amendment and making everyone oversensative.

It also is hurting National Security as Airports are not allowed to profile certain groups where all terrorist come from so they only randomly check all passengers including 75 year old granmothers.

If we dont stop the PC police now all of our freedoms will be gone and we will never get them back.

[STL FANATIC]

Last Sunday, I attended a meeting in my residence hall's multicultural council and this is what we discussed exactly. We watched a news story on Charlene Teters, a former U of I-Champaign grad student, that protested Chief Illiniwek and the other "exploitations" of Native Americans in sports branding in 1989.

Some might remember this, but for those who don't, she stated that as a Native American, that she felt offended while at a basketball game halftime show. During that show at U of I, there was a young student that paraded around the court in semi-traditional garb, which seemed to totally trivialize the customs of Native American tribes; it even made her children embarrassed and brought tears to her eyes. Her investigation into Chief Illiniwek brought out the facts that the Chief is fictional and has NO tribal backing. She questioned the "mascot" himself during an unsupposed press conference about his role, he replied that it was like a religious ritual, and she replied that religion has no place in entertainment, especially in that type of forum (would Jews, Catholics, or any other religion accept that?).

While watching, I saw how people clinged to tradition and the pride of it, and also the role of money with the alumni of U of I as a factor of them not changing their athletic identity. I saw how ignorant and non-willing people were to actually hear Teters' and other protesters out on their issues. It really opened my eyes as far as how Native Americans were (i.e. St. John's, Eastern Michigan, etc.) and still are (i.e. Cleveland Indians, Redskins, Chief Illiniwek, etc.) exploited in sports branding today.

That documentary helped me to look past the logo, or really look into it and what it represents. One story that touched me, was when Native American students were scared to walk down a road at U of Iowa during an Illinois game, because there were dummies of dead Native Americans hung on trees. It helped to realize that although they are a relatively minute percentage of the population, they are still people, and these logos perpetuate their inferiority even more in this country.

My final question: Would you like it if an institution who knew nothing but the superficialities of your culture and/or race made a logo of it, and trivialized it by taking their own spin of it and the stereotypes that accompanies it? How would that feel to you?

I too saw that. What an attention craved person she is, no? There are still a large majority who don't care or who are behind it, but in this day, for some reason the minority (not as in Native Americans are a minority, as in a small group of them) is believed.

I did an in depth report on this as well as other papers on this.

Cheif Illiniwek is not a mascot. He was created long before any one dressed up in crazy suits and ran around the field performing gimmicks, long before the term "mascot" was coined. He simply represents the school and their name.

He is quite authentic. I won't lie. He is not completely Illini authentic, but the costume was sewn for the school by a Sioux indian, and the dance he performs at halftimes of football and basketball games (the only time he is seen) is authentic Sioux fancy dancing. When he comes out, the crowd stands, there are chants of CHIEF!, but it dies down and the Marching Illini play their famous 3 in 1 while he dances, then he leads the crowd in the Illinois Loyalty, and then he dances some more and leaves to a few more chants. He is respected, he is honored. That's what he portrays for the University, and that's how the University portrays him.

The day he is retired will be a very sad day. If he falls, don't be surprised if it's a chain reaction. Maybe, though, maybe, the chain that started with the 'Skins getting their trademarks back will continue instead. He will continue as the symbol of the University, and other teams and universities will keep theirs. And maybe there will be a day when new teams can start naming themselves after a group of people native to their area who portrayed loyalty, fierceness, and bravery, things that the team themselves want to portray.

[Avenger]

It also is hurting National Security as Airports are not allowed to profile certain groups where all terrorist come from so they only randomly check all passengers including 75 year old granmothers.

Please answer where all terrorists come from.

Granted, 75 year old grandmothers probably aren't it, but we do have more domestic terrorists than ones from any other part of the globe. I'd agree that random checks aren't really doing anything either, but singling out people based on gender, race, and age will produce just as insignifigant results. And even if they were to produce slighty better results, at what cost would it be at?

The fact of the matter is that there is no effective way for airport security to profile potential terrorists on the spot. In fact, the only way we are ever going to be able to effectively stop our relatively small (compared to many other countries) terrorist problem is to clean up our foreign affairs. No wonder the rest of the world hates us- look at Iraq. We told the UN to srew off while we fought a war for our own economic interests. Tell me that the conflict there isn't breeding more anti-Americanism. I love my country and all of the good we've done in the world, don't get me wrong, but there's no question in my mind that our international policy has been based on greed, arrogance, and selfeshness.

Anyways.... off my soap box and back onto sports logos. How 'bout the Yankee's logo? Stood the test of time, no? ::

[impulsive106]

STL FANATIC, since you have done research on this issue and have seen the documentary, do you agree with any of the messages of those protests? Do you know why some of those Native Americans you mentioned are indifferent or ignorant of the issue? I know that when members of a minority are being oppressed in some fashion, some members tend to shy away from opposing those forces, is that a factor? If Chief Illiniwek is not Illini authentic, then is he really authentic?

[random]

dude, i dont know what planet you're from but last time i checked it wasnt domestic terrorists who killed 3,000 of your fellow americans on 9/11. we have a handful of the wackos here, but not NEARLY the number that come from other countries.

i love how liberals go out and blame america. its OUR foriegn policy that created the mess, etc etc. and yet, we cant call them unpatriotic, like its a swear word. well i got news for ya, blaming your nation for the 9/11 attacks doesnt sound patriotic to me. and dont gimme the crap that the very act of challenging it makes you patriotic. you seem to know all about domestic terrorism, was Tim McViegh a patriot? he was challenging our government, in fact he challenged it by blowin up a building. under the liberals defination that makes him the biggest patriot alive.

and plus i got news for all you liberals out there, no matter how you feel about this nation, AL QUEDA WANTS YOU DEAD. do u think for a second your view will save any lives? would it save yours if OBL had an AK47 pointed at your head?

and by the way, liberals ARE the PC nuts. name a famous conservative associated with the PC movement. you cant, cause there arent any.

Liberals, always afraid of the truth. you can call a pile of crap an ice cream cone but its still a pile of crap.

[Avenger]

dude, i dont know what planet you're from but last time i checked it wasnt domestic terrorists who killed 3,000 of your fellow americans on 9/11. we have a handful of the wackos here, but not NEARLY the number that come from other countries.

i love how liberals go out and blame america. its OUR foriegn policy that created the mess, etc etc. and yet, we cant call them unpatriotic, like its a swear word. well i got news for ya, blaming your nation for the 9/11 attacks doesnt sound patriotic to me. and dont gimme the crap that the very act of challenging it makes you patriotic. you seem to know all about domestic terrorism, was Tim McViegh a patriot? he was challenging our government, in fact he challenged it by blowin up a building. under the liberals defination that makes him the biggest patriot alive.

and plus i got news for all you liberals out there, no matter how you feel about this nation, AL QUEDA WANTS YOU DEAD. do u think for a second your view will save any lives? would it save yours if OBL had an AK47 pointed at your head?

and by the way, liberals ARE the PC nuts. name a famous conservative associated with the PC movement. you cant, cause there arent any.

Liberals, always afraid of the truth. you can call a pile of crap an ice cream cone but its still a pile of crap.

Look, this is a political discussion on a sports logo board, therefore it's not really a forum for this conversation. If you want to drop me an email to discuss it further, it's avenger@avengerhockey.com. If you want to question the factual validity of my argument, I've got real news sources to back it up, and I'm happy to refer you to them.

For the record, I'm neither conservative or liberal. I'm pretty much middle of the road. Sure, I don't like Bush I or II, but at the same time I didn't like Gore or Clinton. Truth be told, I would have voted for McCain had the Republicans not been so short sighted during the primaries.

I would never condone anyone killing 3,000 innocent people, for what ever the root cause is, whether it is political and religious fundamentalism or for oil money cloaked in protection and liberation. I am mearly saying that the root cause of the hatred for our country is our terrible, unjust, barbaric imperialism that we inflict upon countries with different ideologies or with natural resources that we want. And to call me unpatriotic is just as ignorant as it is to blindly support your government's actions because the person that we sorta, almost, well, not really elected says so. Bush is as big of a liar as Clinton was, he just does it about more signifigant and destructive things.

Anyway, sorry to steer this thread off-topic. Seriously, drop me a line, though. You might be interested in some of the facts that our "liberal" media forgot to mention (although three of the four major media comanies in America are run by conservatives).

[KJTALBOT]

Chief Illiniwek is among the top logos of all time.

Very respectful IMO.

He deserves to be on the helmet.

If naming things after native americans is racist, I guess the State of Illinois will be getting a new name soon.

This is just like Eastern Michigan changing their name from the Hurons to the Eagles.

I always thought a good compromise would be to replace the face in the middle of the Chief Logo with the "I" logo.

Would anyone like to try a rendering?

[fiasco!]

"I always thought a good compromise would be to replace the face in the middle of the Chief Logo with the "I" logo.

Would anyone like to try a rendering?"

here it is.....i don't like it all that much, but it's an idea....i did it very quickly, so i didn't center the 'i' very well, but you get the idea.

c/p

http://www.geocities.com/jrhurst/images/NewIllini.jpg

[yh]

The U of I gets it right.  Chief is not so much a "mascot" as he is a symbol.  I hate to use a time-worn highly colloquialized term but to watch a stadium full of 70,000 people go silent at halftime and watch the ritual dance and then sing the alma mater together is nothing short of awesome.  It's a beautiful ceremony.  The Chief needs to stay -- and this is coming from a Mizzou fan!