CCSLC Graphic Design Collective

[SDX]

What about a private forum that only those chosen to participate can view. you then have a small group to interact within the concept phase of the designing and there aren't the regular BS posts of well I got a better idea blah blah blah.

Like Chris said, the good ones here are obvious and what a tremendous resource for all of them to get together on serious, portfolio-worthy work.

I would simply name Chris as the Principal of the design group and he can determine a "Board" so to speak of those that would have final say on design issues after the collaboration is done.

I am a member of a designer message board that you had to submit portfolio samples to in order to belong.... the customers come the board admins and pay upfront.... the designers that create the identity or web project etc. that the client likes is the "winner" and gets a "cut" of the design fee.

This could also be a good way to work it... if 2-3-4 or more want to collaborate simply tell Chris and if their design wins then they spilt the winnings etc.

What about that kind of approach?

Probably the best suggestion so far. Though I for one no I am not at a high enough standard to join but would like to be able to view some of the work that you guys you just to learn from the styles and techniques you use, so maybe a board that can be viewed by all and posted in by the people in the collective.

Though i do feel you need to have a first class business plan in order before you start the ball rolling on the project. You need to establish how work will be found.

How payments will be split.

Wether everyone can submit ideas, and a final ideas chosen or will individuals be assigned certain projects, depending on their location etc.

[Mings]

What about a private forum that only those chosen to participate can view. you then have a small group to interact within the concept phase of the designing and there aren't the regular BS posts of well I got a better idea blah blah blah.

Like Chris said, the good ones here are obvious and what a tremendous resource for all of them to get together on serious, portfolio-worthy work.

I would simply name Chris as the Principal of the design group and he can determine a "Board" so to speak of those that would have final say on design issues after the collaboration is done.

I am a member of a designer message board that you had to submit portfolio samples to in order to belong.... the customers come the board admins and pay upfront.... the designers that create the identity or web project etc. that the client likes is the "winner" and gets a "cut" of the design fee.

This could also be a good way to work it... if 2-3-4 or more want to collaborate simply tell Chris and if their design wins then they spilt the winnings etc.

What about that kind of approach?

I agree with RedEye on this one. It is a good approach to doing things (I am also a member of said designer message board).

As far as my involvement, it would be summer only. Work and school kick my butt too much during the school year.

[epper]

If you are going to do this, you need to limit the numbers a bit.  If you aren't good, you can't be in it.  Having cool ideas isn't enough (in my opinion)

You have to trust each and every one of the people in the group.  We're talking money, large sums of money.  People are going to want to keep jobs they find to themselves...and there is NO way of stopping that.  And if someone comes to you specifically, how hard will it be to pass the buck onto the rest of the group?

If you don't have Photoshop, Illustrator, AND InDesign/Quark, you can't do this.  I'm sorry but Inkscape, pagemaker, paint, those are not production ready programs. 

But beyond that, I'm not in.  Conflict of interest.

Pat's got it right on.

I hate to rain on everyones parade, but I highly doubt this would work. Many of you may not know me, as I don't post my work very often, but I am a fulltime designer at a studio here in Toronto (in fact, the studio that designed the current Hockey Night In Canada logo for CBC). The #1 thing I've learned about this industry is that to run a good studio you spend....maybe 1/3 the time actually designing. The other time is spent meeting with clients, on the phone with clients, chasing clients for the invoices you sent them 2 weeks ago, doing production work, tweaking and nitpicking every last detail etc. If you don't do these things, you'll never be able to actually start having fun with concepts, Pantone swatches and Adobe Illustrator.

The reason I point these things out is that it would be very hard to control these things or delegate these jobs to people who have never even met in person. Sure, there is a WEALTH of talent on these boards: they've inspired me to become the designer I am today. But I just can't see the logistics of it playing out.

Now thats not to say it's impossible, or that I wouldn't be very proud of this community of it happened. Go ahead and prove me wrong. But I too will not take part in this.

[zoneranger]

This subject came up a couple of years ago and I still think it's a big undertaking to get off the ground and keep off the ground. As Epper makes reference to, there's a lot more to this than just designing logos and saying "pay me"

That being said...I wish you all the luck in the world with this project!! I hope it flies!

[CC97]

What about a private forum that only those chosen to participate can view. you then have a small group to interact within the concept phase of the designing and there aren't the regular BS posts of well I got a better idea blah blah blah.

Like Chris said, the good ones here are obvious and what a tremendous resource for all of them to get together on serious, portfolio-worthy work.

I would simply name Chris as the Principal of the design group and he can determine a "Board" so to speak of those that would have final say on design issues after the collaboration is done.

I am a member of a designer message board that you had to submit portfolio samples to in order to belong.... the customers come the board admins and pay upfront.... the designers that create the identity or web project etc. that the client likes is the "winner" and gets a "cut" of the design fee.

This could also be a good way to work it... if 2-3-4 or more want to collaborate simply tell Chris and if their design wins then they spilt the winnings etc.

What about that kind of approach?

I like this approach and feel it is the best way of doing this.

I appreciate the concerns of others, however, I have found in my experience with clients that one is able to maintain a relationship without ever meeting. In fact I have never met any of my customers and haven't had an issue with that.

If I'm wrong, so be it, but I'd rather know that by trying instead of thinking that by not.

[pcgd]

But beyond that, I'm not in.  Conflict of interest.

So if I find a job for you to do, and pay you for it, you won't do it because of a conflict of interest?

I don't get it.

If you wanted to do that that would be fine. Its freelance. My job permits me to do freelance. For me, Its a conflict of interest because I'm already part of a similar collective of designers which was started months ago. I can't pick and choose the jobs I gather to send to one company or the other. Its got to be all or nothing.

I'm not trying to bash this collective. Its a great idea. Something that has been discussed many times and should be carried out. I'm just warning all involved of the possible hangups because I've been part of this discussion before. Its more than just finding work, doing the work and getting lots of money. You have to think about how that money is split (if at all) who pays for expenses, advertising, who gets the jobs, etc. Then everyone has to be trustworthy. You have to have everyone feel they are putting in the same level of work, because in this case you could really get screwed by someone feeling they are putting in too much of the time. If you were starting a 10 person company, you are going to have all the problems of a "traditional" start up with some more with the distance issues.

You can have clients you never meet. I have one. But I've only had one. And I talk to him more on the phone than I talk to my mother at times. Its much easier to be able to meet face to face with someone. There is alot of information that can be lost on the phone/email. To me the best approach is a combination of all three. A face to face initial meeting/major developments, phone call followups, emailed changes, etc.

Good Luck!

[CC97]

If you wanted to do that that would be fine.  Its freelance.  My job permits me to do freelance.  For me, Its a conflict of interest because I'm already part of a similar collective of designers which was started months ago.  I can't pick and choose the jobs I gather to send to one company or the other.  Its got to be all or nothing.

I think you're misunderstanding how I was planning on setting this up.

I have no problem with people in this "collective" doing design work for other "collectives" because in reality this is a "freelance type" group.

I get a lot of people asking for logo/graphic/web design through the sports logos site... my idea was that I would simply take that request, and post it on this "collective" board, and let whoever wanted to design for it, go ahead and design for it.

If multiple people wanted to take a shot, so be it, it's always good to have a few "secondary" choices for the client. I (or a panel) would decide which concepts would be presented to the client, and we'd go from there.

At the moment, I don't plan on doing any paid advertising of this service... I'll make it known on the logos site, on these boards, word of mouth, whatever and as we progress with this plan the payment percentages to designers will be figured out.

It's more of an exclusive requests board, with all jobs being paid jobs, I really see this as not being a design firm, at least not in a traditional design firm way.

If people hate this idea, then let me know... but I see this as being the best way of starting up.

[gordie_delini]

Chris I think that is a smart solution and a good way of starting of going about this process. Keep me posted about this project's progression

[Mings]

Chris, I'm down with it being worked that way. I would suggest that you get the money upfront, put it in your paypal, or another pay pal set up just for it, and then pay us using paypal or whatever.

[RedEye]

I agree with Joshua and Gordie....

I think that opening each job up for whomever is included in the design group with the best man winning is completely fair.... if anyone if worried about doing a bunch of work and not winning the job then they simply bow out. This format in the end will make everyone create work that is that much better. Competition breeds quality in this type of environment.

I think this is a tremendous idea.

[CC97]

Okay, so the way you explained it sounds like it will be like the request board, but only for clients, yes? Also it sounds like it's everyone could be envolved and the design board would just eliminate and choose the cream of the crop? So if what I just said was correct, then I or someone else could at one point submit work and that could be choosen?

My current idea limits the users who have access to this board...

But it's just an idea

[fiasco!]

your current idea is a good one

[RedEye]

I do think it is important that a limited number of designers are given access.

If these clients are to be given the sense that this board is made up of professional / skilled designers then it is important that anyone allowed to view and submit has the skills / software and experience necessary to give the clients the design they deserve.

This is NOT meant to hurt anyone's feelings. If this board is to be looked upon by clients / future clients as a serious resource for quality design then only those capable of providing that quality should be included.... otherwise the design submissions will range from MS Paint doodles to professional level work.... which would do little for the perceived integrity and professionalism of the creative skills offered.

[STL FANATIC]

I'm a fan of the general thought of this idea.

I've already discussed thoughts about it with Chris, but I just thought I'd post to say I'm in.

[tajmccall]

I think limiting the professional requests board to a private venture is necessary if we are trying to take ourselves seriously. There are many children on the boards these days, and many of them lack the necessary credentials and programs to pass the organization off as credible.

Not to knock on ya, we all started somewhere. That said, we didn't start with paid jobs.

I would be honored to at least have the opportunity to put concepts in. I am striving for an opportunity to at least have concepts be done with professional critique, something this board has lost in its amazing growth.

The ideas are solid, the talent is obviously here. I have no other obligations so sign me up!

[Natsfan36]

this idea sounds like a really good one......i know i wont be making any designs...but im sure a lot of people on the boards who are not going to be involved would probably like to help in any way, shape, or form.......kinda like a moral support group.....

[Sterling84]

I like the way it seems to be shaping up.

I would add though, that I don?t think our strength is pitting (let?s say 20) designers against one another (so to speak) trying to win one project from a client.

Where I think the strength of the collective is, is that very rarely could you get not only 20 different ideas, but 19 different pro critiques of EACH of those 20 ideas and (in a perfect world) an open enough environment where I ditch what I was working on cause XXXX?s concept is way better and we pick up together were he/she left off.

I imagine one ?rough? submitted from anybody who is interested, which gets voted by the board down to the 3-4 best, whereby everybody works off those 3-4. Vote again who took it to the proper level and submit those winners to the client.

This may seem kind of communist or something. Very Counterintuitive to most artists. Nobody likes their stuff messes with. And this is not to say that certain members here couldn?t take something from start to finish. OF course they could.

But if you open it all up, so that the members all see the progress?I promise you nothing will be missed. No stroke errors overlooked, no reference or theme forgotten. Design by committee. Fraught with hurt feelings, bad mojo maybe. I dunno. I never felt that way during the aforementioned NEHL deal. Rozilla and js and I traded files the whole time and worked off each others ideas.

Maybe I could handle it on my own. And in my free time, on a freelance basis. I certainly will. But would I have liked to have 10 of you on board with me during the Moose thing? Duh. The results would have been superior. I have no delusions.

Would the pay structure have to be split totally even then? I dunno. That?s for other people to figure out. You could however make it like??say a journalist who HAS to submit some articles per month. Even if you don?t design you have to login and make critiques on 80-% of the stuff per month or don?t get paid. So forth. Just thinking aloud.

[Sterling84]

Oh and before you ask me how that would work toward ownership for portfolio rights. Look. In the scientific community there are lots of times 10-25 different authors on any given paper.

Do they gripe about it? Yes. But someone overseeing assigns "First author" and so on to every participant.

It's not that big of a deal.

THe primary thing is do you want your work (in any sense) to be used and this community to which you belong, to actually start making choices instead of reacting to them.

If that is worth swallowing some pride for , it's there for the taking.

[fiasco!]

as far as ownership/portfolio issues, dave, there could always be the "lead designer" "art director" "creative director" tags applied to the projects, with the different positions on any given project working on a set pay scale for said project.

[Sterling84]

as far as ownership/portfolio issues, dave, there could always be the "lead designer" "art director" "creative director" tags applied to the projects, with the different positions on any given project working on a set pay scale for said project.

Precisely Joel. Thank you.

And don't underestimate how valuable the non-designer but heavy critiquers among us can be.

I'm think of BiB primarily. Who wouldn't want that guardian angel working over your shoulder reminding you "actually, that town used to be the gun powder capital of the world in 1906" to help your ideas flourish?

My thought is that if we don't choose to operate it this way...with full on collab throughout the process... we might as well be Elance or any other freelancer website place. We all have our strenghts. But our overwhelming power comes from our ability to communicate and combine. At least in my opinion.