CCSLC Graphic Design Collective

[tajmccall]

Well this has turned from a novel idea to something with steam.

I think the last ideas from Sterling and Joel have some serious merit. If we were to organize and mobilze into different roles, with others providing critique and historical reference (with the obvious enthusiasm we all share here,) we could really have something.

And as before mentioned, we should probably start on the High School - Minor League level. (otherwise known as anything we can get our grubby hands on)

To me it is all about improving the overall aesthetic of sports branding. A good, nay great start to that would be creating original identities in places that generally borrow (and in some instances, steal) from the professional ranks. This practice obviously waters down the vast opportunities for good designers to practice their chops, while a school gets an unidentifiable look. (How many schools with the eagles moniker can use philly's logo?)

I would be proud to say some Class AAA school in Idaho was wearing anything I (or we) designed.

If one school looks good, has success, and maybe even sells a bit more school merchandise (long shot) then you would think other teams in that conference or surrounding area would give us a shot. From there the list could grow.

I hope this becomes something we are all proud of.

[logodawg]

Payment upfront would have to be a must at least when starting out, especially if focusing on high schools and the such in the beginning.

Who hasn't been ripped off when fulfilling a request?

[Brian in Boston]

Precisely Joel.  Thank you.

And don't underestimate how valuable the non-designer but heavy critiquers among us can be.

I'm think of BiB primarily.  Who wouldn't want that guardian angel working over your shoulder reminding you "actually, that town used to be the gun powder capital of the world in 1906" to help your ideas flourish?

My thought is that if we don't choose to operate it this way...with full on collab throughout the process... we might as well be Elance or any other freelancer website place.  We all have our strenghts. But our overwhelming power comes from our ability to communicate and combine.  At least in my opinion.

Thank you for the kind words, my friend.

Despite a few moments of thin-skinned petty bickering about relative design talent that occurred early on, I'm heartened by a great deal of what has been put forth in this thread.

I have little doubt that there are members of this community who possess the design skills necessary to create work that would command significant compensation on the open market. Further, I believe that we all feel it is safe to say that participation in this community bespeaks a passion about graphic design that borders on the obsessive... and I mean that in the most complimentary way. Finally, some of the aforementioned commentary in this thread is proof - at least to me - that there are those amongst you who are accutely aware of not only the potential benefits that a "CCSLC Graphic Design Collective" is capable of delivering to it's members, but the very real responsibilities that belonging to such an organization will entail.

For my part, I would simply advise those organizing such a venture to recognize that there is a fine line between gathering a group of talented individuals large enough to provide a comprehensive and varied approach to design... and engaging in an enterprise that defines the old adage "too many cooks spoil the broth".

I would also suggest that everyone recognize that paramount amongst responsibilities in the "CCSLC Graphic Design Collaborative" will be the realization and acceptance of the fact that the behavior of one will reflect upon all. Every task undertaken in support of such a venture will not solely reflect upon the individual performing said task. Rather, each and every effort will carry with it the ability to exalt or besmirch the reputation of the "CCSLC Graphic Design Collaborative" as a whole... and, by extension, the reputations of each and every individual member. That's an immense amount of responsibility to take on. I don't for a minute believe that the individuals that Chris would tab for such a venture as this would be oblivious to this fact. Still, best that the subject be openly broached and reflected upon.

Finally, as a practical matter, I would suggest that everyone ultimately involved in this venture should familiarize themselves with the Graphic Artists Guild's Handbook of Pricing and Etical Guidelines. The information contained therein - touching upon a variety of subjects including contracts, trade practices and pricing - is invaluable.

I wish each and every person who is ultimately involved with this project the very best of luck. If I can be of service in any way, just give me a shout.

[Mings]

Thanks BiB, that book is very valuable. Everyone should definitely read it. And I also agree with Joel, about the lead designer.

The idea with the rough sketches and then collaboration is a great way to go. I am completely down with that.

If you want me, I'm yours.

[toxicsoul]

Some things to consider and these are just my thoughts?

One thing that has yet to be discussed is confidentiality, which is a large part of an undertaking most design work. The client wants to reveal the new design, it is not up to the designer, if this collective were to be taken truly seriously those that are involved need to refrain from any open discussion of what is taking place behind the curtain, yes I know it sucks given the the manner in which new logos are discussed on this board, but? business is business. Also it would look really bad if something the group was working on ended up being discussed on the forum before public consumption.

A way in which to facilitate the crit process is via aim or pdf with notes, although if those involved would be able to dedicate the time to develop what's an hour or so chatting about what is being worked on. It would also allow set times to discuss new projects or the status of ongoing jobs and since everyone involved has web access it just make sense, I use it from time to time when phone calls could get expensive.

Just a thought, the possibility of another site with a dedicated and secure log-in would be the forum for all involved to view along with the other members involved also the suggested site could have a client log-in so again the security of the matter is upheld until the time at which the design is made public at which point as part of the front end of the site the portfolio would be updated. A dedicated site would also differentiate from the boards since there may be some apprehension from parties who would like to do business with the collective but afraid that leaks may occur.

I understand the thought of everyone would like to be involved but again it is not good business, especially if this is an endeavor that wishes to be taken seriously. A suggestion would be to create a core group of designers (an odd number would be good as to prevent stalemates on design issues), with no hard feelings with those not chosen to be part of the group. This group would also need legal assistance as well as a sales point person plus a trustworthy sole to handle cash flow since a good sound structure would need to be established to make this thing work.

Another facet to also think about is the expanded aspects of business, someone needs a logo that fine and good but what other aspects involved with that design would also be involved? web presence, collateral development, etc. The whole picture needs to be at least roughed in before an endeavor would be untertaken, a business model/plan would need to be laid out and the possiblity of a LLC or such would need to be considered since as a business there are aspects such as financials that would need to be addressed. And as a business there would have to be serious responsibility to the effort placed on those parties involved to make sure follow through and success is acheived.

I would also leave room in the plan for the addition of designers down the road but like an agency or design firm they would not enter as principles but would elevate over time based on performance and dedication.

These are just some random thoughts of mine and I do have some others but I don't want to seem too long winded, thanks for listening.

[leggman01]

i understand the need to limit access to such a website, but i'd like to make a request: if this does indeed happen, after the final product is delivered to the paying customer, i think it would be great to see the evolution of the logo and the critique that evolved the logo posted on the concepts board, or a new (public) "CCSLC Design Collective" board - seeing a design evolve is absolutely the most incredible part of this community to me, and i think anyone who aspires to be part of this collective or to be a designer would benefit greatly from seeing this process

oh, and if you need anyone to simply critique, my services would require no payment

[Davey]

Just wanted to know that when you go to college to become a Graphic Designer, dont they teacher you all of this, because im my tour to the college im going to, they said that on your 3rd year you actually get into the buisness and see how it works and help get you a job. They also said that they teach you from the basic start on abobe and illustrator.

So just wanted to know if they do teach you how to do stuff on adobe, and tell you how the works in the buisness ??

[fiasco!]

college is different than real life.

[RedEye]

Truer words have never been spoke Joel!

[slapshot]

Just wanted to know that when you go to college to become a Graphic Designer, dont they teacher you all of this, because im my tour to the college im going to, they said that on your 3rd year you actually get into the buisness and see how it works and help get you a job. They also said that they teach you from the basic start on abobe and illustrator.

So just wanted to know if they do teach you how to do stuff on adobe, and tell you how the works in the buisness ??

First of all, you have to get the terminology right.

No one does things on "Adobe". That's like teaching someone how to eat Kellogg's for breakfast. Adobe is the industry standard for graphic design software, but by no means the only company. The official names for the programs are Adobe InDesign, Adobe Illustrator, or Adobe Photoshop, although the second halves of those names are perfectly acceptable.

Second, you shouldn't be learning the software in a graphic design class. That would be like teaching someone to use power tools in an architecture class. Computers and computer programs are just tools, nothing more. One should learn to design visually away from the computer at first, otherwise you get limited by your knowledge of the software. The school should have computer design classes or ones specifically for the software to teach the programs. Graphic design is such an in depth field that there is a lot that would be omitted if most of the class was spent learning software.

Although most, if not all colleges are internet ready, and have access to the online world, you should check out the library to see what books and magazines they have on graphic design. The more thorough the library and available resources, the more likely you are to get a thorough education.

Find out if the school has internships. There's only so much that can be taught in the classroom. Most courses teach students to be art directors, but in the real world, graduates end up with grunt jobs. Chances are, you're not going to be designing graphic-intensive Flash websites, or designing annual reports, billboards, or glossy magazine ads right out of school. You might end up working in the production department of a newspaper or magazine changing copy for movie theater or supermarket ads. It's through these menial production jobs that you get proficient with software and deadlines.

If your school has job placement, big bonus. My school didn't. Upon graduation, it was just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

One big point of all this? Graphic design is a competitive field. Although you'll probably get a lot of jobs from friends and word of mouth, the best way to make a name for yourself in the business is to be a better designer and worker than your competition. Pooling of resources, such as this collective, is a great idea, and a good way to meet colleagues and get feedback from other designers, to help you grow your career. But in reality, this will most likely just be a side project for you, not a way to consistenly earn a living.

[pcgd]

You could study Graphic Design for 10 years in college, and you still wouldn't learn as much as you would in your first year in the "real world."

In fact, I'm betting this is true for any profession.

[Mings]

You could study Graphic Design for 10 years in college, and you still wouldn't learn as much as you would in your first year in the "real world."

In fact, I'm betting this is true for any profession.

It is, thats why a lot of schools have co-op and internships now.

After all thats what drove me to IIT.

[gordie_delini]

do you know what i've learned in school about graphic design? NOTHING. i've built my portfolio and skills out of my own trial and error, with some helpful guidance from my dad (who is a professional printer by trade) and a graphic designer he works with in portland (JT Quanbeck, www.appletonlloyd.com)

school doesn't teach you about the real world at all - i am just treading water until i can get a job. i literally have not learned a single useful thing as far as Graphic Design is concerned. It's very frustrating

But at least I'm graduating a year early

[pcgd]

Now by no means did I mean college was useless. I learned plenty. You'll just learn more you're first year out.

In college I learned the basics of art, design, theory. My classes outside of art taught me about advertising, public speaking, business, all neccesary things for any career. Plus I learned literature, history, psychology, you name it. Maybe I'll never use those things in Graphic Design, but As Gandhi said, "Live as if your were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."

I'm not saying you have to go to learn everything. You can get by without going (Avenger) and be very successful. But, nobody is going to go to college and not put in numerous extra hours and come out a success. It's what you make of it. College is a tool that's only as useful as the person using it.

[iDonovan]

I have been away for awhile with way to much work...but I just wanted to say this post has some good ideas and points.

[Alphabet Man]

do you know what i've learned in school about graphic design? NOTHING. i've built my portfolio and skills out of my own trial and error, with some helpful guidance from my dad (who is a professional printer by trade) and a graphic designer he works with in portland (JT Quanbeck, www.appletonlloyd.com)

school doesn't teach you about the real world at all - i am just treading water until i can get a job. i literally have not learned a single useful thing as far as Graphic Design is concerned. It's very frustrating

But at least I'm graduating a year early

thats how i feel at school, we learn nothing, the teacher tells us all...everything i know, ive taught myself, i know my work aint the best, but i know i am improving, i try different stuff, and last ngiht landed my first ever job in graphic design, ok, they hvent seen my work yet, but i plan to show them my best work i have ever done. I don't post anything, i'd probably clutter up the boards with a the 50odd Aussie soccer jersey designs. But school has done nothing for me, when i use illustrator at school i am always told off cos im not drawing it by hand and when i redraw what ive done its . But all year and last year, we got no real instructions/help from anyone. I've taught myself to use illustrator, unfortunately you need uni/school pass in the subject to get a job. I am lucky i got a job to do now.

[VitaminD]

Great idea, and best of luck to the venture.

While my design abilities range from mediocre to occasionally capable, I would have to recuse myself from active participation in submissions, as I am an MSPaint user, and I am not on a level with some of the better designers throwing their hats into the ring on this.

That said, I'd like to support in any way I could, even if I'd be relegated to fact-checking and obsessively-detailed critiques. I don't know if that gets me title of Vice BiB, but that's what I am putting on my business cards.

[uniguy22]

Great idea, and best of luck to the venture.

While my design abilities range from mediocre to occasionally capable, I would have to recuse myself from active participation in submissions, as I am an MSPaint user, and I am not on a level with some of the better designers throwing their hats into the ring on this.

That said, I'd like to support in any way I could, even if I'd be relegated to fact-checking and obsessively-detailed critiques. I don't know if that gets me title of Vice BiB, but that's what I am putting on my business cards.

MS Paint user? That's not what it says in your sig. May I ask what program you're using for this autumn concept?

[VitaminD]

Great idea, and best of luck to the venture.

While my design abilities range from mediocre to occasionally capable, I would have to recuse myself from active participation in submissions, as I am an MSPaint user, and I am not on a level with some of the better designers throwing their hats into the ring on this.

That said, I'd like to support in any way I could, even if I'd be relegated to fact-checking and obsessively-detailed critiques.  I don't know if that gets me title of Vice BiB, but that's what I am putting on my business cards. 

MS Paint user? That's not what it says in your sig. May I ask what program you're using for this autumn concept?

Ah, but it also says I didn't use AI or PhotoShop.

The program I used for the upcoming concept isn't a program at all (but I guess it does have a name, but that's personal! ). Everything you need to know is contained in the closing panel of my sig. And for the record, I will not be putting it up for critique, as I can not change it - and I already love the concept and consider it perfect.

[Sec19Row53]

Great idea, and best of luck to the venture.

While my design abilities range from mediocre to occasionally capable, I would have to recuse myself from active participation in submissions, as I am an MSPaint user, and I am not on a level with some of the better designers throwing their hats into the ring on this.

That said, I'd like to support in any way I could, even if I'd be relegated to fact-checking and obsessively-detailed critiques.  I don't know if that gets me title of Vice BiB, but that's what I am putting on my business cards. 

MS Paint user? That's not what it says in your sig. May I ask what program you're using for this autumn concept?

Ah, but it also says I didn't use AI or PhotoShop.

The program I used for the upcoming concept isn't a program at all (but I guess it does have a name, but that's personal! ). Everything you need to know is contained in the closing panel of my sig. And for the record, I will not be putting it up for critique, as I can not change it - and I already love the concept and consider it perfect.

[threadjack]

Congratulations on your impending new arrival. They change everything!

[/threadjack]