A couple of You Make The Calls.

[slapshot]

Typical put dresses on Qbs

So, you would rather players be able to take out the quarterback's knees on a sack? You don't think it's a cheap shot to go helmet-to-knee on anyone?

[Fred T. Jane]

So, you would rather players be able to take out the quarterback's knees on a sack? You don't think it's a cheap shot to go helmet-to-knee on anyone?

Kimo von Oelhoffen is Tank's hero, obviously.

[MrAsterisk]

Typical put dresses on Qbs

So, you would rather players be able to take out the quarterback's knees on a sack? You don't think it's a cheap shot to go helmet-to-knee on anyone?

Of course it's a cheap shot, but it's always a cheap shot, not only for the quarterback.

It's silly. A quaterback is as much a football player as the other 21 on the field; why should he be afforded these silly special protections tantamount to a no-contact jersey in practice? Isn't a tight end equally liable to tear a ligament on a helmet-to-knee tackle? Why aren't they protected.

Absolutely, this is more putting dresses on quarterbacks. I say: This is football, there shouldn't be dresses on anyone, but if you're doing it for quarterbacks, you'd ought to do it for everyone.

[WJMorris3]

Alright. Exhibit G: MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL

Mark Prior is on the mound for the Cubs. With one out in the inning, David Eckstein is on second base for the Cardinals, and Albert Pujols is at the plate. Prior delivers a pitch without having either foot on the rubber. Pujols swings and hits a ground ball to third baseman Aramis Ramirez. Ramirez checks the runner at 2nd, and throws to first. The throw pulls Derrek Lee off the bag, and Pujols is safe at 1st. So we have runners at 1st and 2nd with one out. Or do we?

Exhibit H: MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL

Bases loaded, nobody out for the Devil Rays against the Red Sox. Carl Crawford decides to bunt the ball, and he bunts a popup, straight up, just in front of the plate, to the point where Jason Varitek can make the play with ordinary effort. As the three Devil Ray baserunners retreat to their bases, Varitek decides to let the ball drop. He then picks it up, steps on the plate, throws to third baseman Lowell, who steps on third, and throws to Mark Loretta at second. Triple play? Or not?

Exhibit I: THE NFL

On a gusty December day at Soldier Field, Mike Vanderjagt of the Cowboys sets up for a 50-yard field goal. He kicks it, and it travels through the uprights, by about a foot and a half... until a freak gust of wind blows the ball back through the uprights. The ball lands in the end zone. Is the field goal still good?

[NJTank]

G its up to Pujols and the Cardinals since its a balk. If Pujols was out it would automatically be a balk but being its an error, its up to Pujols to continue the AB with a runner at 3rd or stay at 1st and teh Cards have 1st and 2nd.

H it would be an infield fly if the ball goes high enough and determining the description it did and thus just the batter is out unless teh Rays tr to run then it becoems runa t your own risk and if you leave the base u can be out trying to advance, but there is no force play the runners must be tagged out.

I Its good once it crosses the goal posts its good just like a ball crossing the plane of the goal line.

[seattlefan68]

On H, if the umpire doesn't call infield fly, does it still apply?

I agree with him otherwise.

[slapshot]

G. Unless the umpires actually called "balk", the play stands.

Legally, Eckstein goes to third. Most pitchers will comes to a stop once a balk is called. However, if the pitcher continues his motion, the batter is free to offer at the pitch and take the results of the action. A balk affects the runners on base, not the batter. So Pujols is safe at first, and Eckstein is moved to third by rule.

On a balk, the runners advance one base safely. If they advance further, or overrun their base, a play can then be made on them.

If there were no one on base, the pitch would be automatically called a ball, due to it being an illegal pitch by the pitcher. Unless Pujols decided to take the result of his swinging at it, in which case, safe at first.

H. It's not an infield fly. An infield fly is a pop up by anything other than an attempted bunt.

However...the umpire may use discretion and call the batter out if he feels the ball was intentionally missed for the purpose of making multiuple outs. This happened in a Red Sox game witihn the last few weeks, where the umpire judged that Mike Lowell had intentionally dropped an easy out to try to make a double play.

In either case, the ball is dead, and the runners are allowed to return to their bases, with only the batter considered out.

I. No field goal. The ball must touch something beyond the plane of the field goal (ground, net, wall, trees, fans, whatever) to consider the attempt complete.

[paynomind]

Exhibit G: MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL-

None. Mark Prior wouldnt be PITCHING, he'd be on the DL! Trick Question!

[LMU]

Exhibit G: MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL-

None. Mark Prior wouldnt be PITCHING, he'd be on the DL! Trick Question!

Beat me to it!

[Sec19Row53]

Alright, class, here are the answers I came up with.

Exhibit F: Either 1st and 10 at the 21, or the Eagles kick off at the 35.  Charge the Steelers five yards for illegal formation, as by rule, a player may not line up directly over the center on a field goal formation.  They may take the field goal off the board, or they may take the penalty on the ensuing kickoff.

I believe you're wrong on this one. Please show me a citation for this that is from the NFL (as opposed to college or high school). I've bolded what I would like to see documented.

Not trying to be a jerk, it's just that I've never seen this call, and haven't heard of it as a change for this year.

nevermind It IS a new rule. I sit corrected.

[Ltrain512]

Ok. This is my first post. I'm a friend of Will's and he told me to sign up, so here I am to contribute.

G. Eckstein is awarded 3rd and Pujols returns to bat and assumes the pitch count before the balk.

One thing to note, if Eckstein would have reached 3rd on the "grounder," then he would remain at 3rd and Pujols would be safe at 1st on the error. Only because Eckstein did not advance results in Pujols returning to bat. If he knew what was going on, he would have tried to advance for he had no fear of being out. But I don't think anyone would realize this.

H. It's simply an infield fly. Bases loaded, 1 out. Key phrase was "Jason Varitek can make the play with ordinary effort."

I. I won't answer because Will gave me the answer yesterday when he posed this question to me. HAHA.

[WJMorris3]

Exhibit G: Balk. Eckstein is awarded third base. Pujols returns to bat. Prior is charged with a balk for throwing a pitch while not on the rubber (Rule 8.05g). By rule, a balk allows for each runner to advance one base and the ball to be dead, unless the batter reaches first base on the play and all runners advance at least one base. Since Eckstein did not advance, the balk stands.

Exhibit H: Legal triple play. By rule, an Infield Fly cannot be a bunt or line drive (Rule 2.00). What Varitek did was legal, so long as he didn't touch the ball on the way down. (Rule 6.05l provides that the batter is out, the ball is dead, and the runners move back to their original bases if a fielder drops a pop-up or line-drive with a runner on first and less than two outs, but it also says that the fielder must drop the ball -- the batter is not out if the ball drops untouched unless the Infield Fly rule applies.)

Exhibit I: No good. By rule, a ball kicked through the uprights must contact something beyond the uprights (for instance, the back frame of the crossbar, the netting, the ground, the stands) for the kick to be good. If it's blown back out without touching anything, it's no good.

[duhstupid]

Exhibit I: No good.  By rule, a ball kicked through the uprights must contact something beyond the uprights (for instance, the back frame of the crossbar, the netting, the ground, the stands) for the kick to be good.  If it's blown back out without touching anything, it's no good.

vanderjadgt is a sucker

[slapshot]

Sorry Will, I beg to differ on G and H...

We have been taught in my umpire organization that a balk is not an automatic dead ball. The umpire can yell "balk" during the pitcher's windup, but that does not kill the play. In most cases, the pitcher will stop and step off the mound, and the runners would advance as the penalty allows. But if the pitcher doesn't stop, and delivers to the batter, and the batter makes contact and reaches safely, the result of the play may be allowed to stand. If the batter does nothing, the pitch does not count, and the runners advance normally.

Here is the official rule about what happens when the pitcher balks (8.05):

The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

As far as the popup goes, if Varitek obviously allows the ball to land untouched for the purpose of making a double or triple play, the umpire can call the batter out and runners return to their bases. The whole point of the infield fly is exactly for that purpose...so the fielder's don't "cheat" to easily pick multiple runners off the bases.

It's not an infield fly...but the umpires can use their judgment to rule the batter out, in fairness to the other runners.

Here is a ruling regarding batters being declared out (6.05L):

(l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases; APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

So we may both be wrong...the batter is not declared out, because the infield fly rule does not apply in this case. Crawford may be awarded another pitch...I can't tell based on this interpretation. I think he would be declared out, but the runners remain at their bases.

I am interested to see if any other umpires here agree with me on these issues...

[gojetsgo]

no hockey ones?

[Ltrain512]

You are interpreting your rule wrong for the balk. It says "unless the batter reaches first somehow AND ALL OTHER RUNNERS ADVANCE AT LEAST ONE BASE." Runner did not advance, therefore it's a dead ball.

[slapshot]

You are interpreting your rule wrong for the balk. It says "unless the batter reaches first somehow AND ALL OTHER RUNNERS ADVANCE AT LEAST ONE BASE." Runner did not advance, therefore it's a dead ball.

Now that I read that again, I think you're right on that one...so had Eckstein gone to third on the play, it would stand. But if nothing was said at the time of the pitch, the play would continue as described, and then the umpires would put Eckstein at third and send Pujols back to bat.

[mts773]

So, you would rather players be able to take out the quarterback's knees on a sack? You don't think it's a cheap shot to go helmet-to-knee on anyone?

Text book tackling fudementals teach to hit with you shoulder as low as possible on the ball carriers legs and then wrap. This is going to lead to a alot of helmet to knee shots, its just the nature of tackling. I understand that some precuations have to be taken for QBs, who are often stationairy and therefore especially vulnerable, but extending this non-stationairy players just give penalties for good tackling. In my opinion, the no-knee hit rule should only apply when the a) the QB is stationary, QB is in the pocket and C) the defender has not been forced to lower his body to avoid or engage a blocker. A lineman should be penalized if has been knocked down, then lunges from his knees at the QB, for example.

[BlueSky]

So, you would rather players be able to take out the quarterback's knees on a sack? You don't think it's a cheap shot to go helmet-to-knee on anyone?

Text book tackling fudementals teach to hit with you shoulder as low as possible on the ball carriers legs and then wrap. This is going to lead to a alot of helmet to knee shots, its just the nature of tackling. I understand that some precuations have to be taken for QBs, who are often stationairy and therefore especially vulnerable, but extending this non-stationairy players just give penalties for good tackling. In my opinion, the no-knee hit rule should only apply when the a) the QB is stationary, QB is in the pocket and C) the defender has not been forced to lower his body to avoid or engage a blocker. A lineman should be penalized if has been knocked down, then lunges from his knees at the QB, for example.

Watch some NFL Films stuff from the 50's/60's/70's - some of the stuff they got away with on every play is amazing. Clotheslining, hitting guys 2 yards out of bounds, and so on.

Some of that needed to be cleaned up, but don't fool yourself by thinking it's purely out of concern for player safety. The stakes are a lot higher now, look at what happened to the Bengals when Carson Palmer went down or the Falcons when Vick was hurt. That's why they're so protective now.