A couple of You Make The Calls.

[WJMorris3]

Alright, officials in training, I figure I might as well throw a couple of sports officiating questions out.

Exhibit A: THE NFL

With just 1:55 left in the game, Oakland leads Kansas City, 30 - 26. The Chiefs line up for the onside kick, placing 8 players to the right of kicker Lawrence Tynes and 2 to the left. Tynes kicks the ball into the ground at the 30 yard line. It bounces to the Chiefs' 39 yard line, where it bounces off the Raiders' Rod Smart's hands, and is recovered at the Chiefs' 37 by Eddie Kennison. Where should the ball next be played from, by which team, and by what means? Why?

Exhibit B: INTERNATIONAL SOCCER

In the 35th minute of a friendly between England and France, Wayne Rooney is taken down in the penalty area and England is awarded a penalty kick. David Beckham approaches the penalty spot. On the way in to kick the ball, he slips, nicking the ball forward. Michael Owen, who was charging the goal on the kick, then boots the ball past Fabien Barthez. By rule, where should France next put the ball in play?

Exhibit C: MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL

In the bottom of the first inning in a game between the Dodgers and Marlins, the Marlins have loaded the bases with nobody out. Hanley Ramirez is at third, Dan Uggla is at second, and Miguel Cabrera is at first. Mark Hendrickson pitches to Cody Ross. Ross swings and shatters his bat on a nubber just in front of the plate. Toby Hall picks it up, steps on the plate, and then throws to third in time to force out Uggla. The umpire then notices that the bat had been corked. When Wes Helms, the next Marlins batter, comes up to the plate, which runners should properly be on the basepaths, and where? Also, how many outs should there be?

[lopernv]

EXHIBIT B: The ball should be played at half, it's a goal.

[Fred T. Jane]

Exhibit A- Kansas City gets the ball on their 25, and they have to kick again. Illegal procedure penalty for not having at least 4 players on each side of the kicker

Exhibit C- Side retired. When a Corked bat is found, the player is called out, and ejected. Players on base that are put out on the play are called out, but the remainder stay where they were, unless the play results in 3 outs (including the player ejected), then the side is retired as ususal.

[slapshot]

A. KC ball, 1st and 10 on the 37. Once the ball touches Rod Smart, it is legal to be recovered by either team. If Smart gained possession first and then fumbled, KC could return the ball. Since it was obly touched by Smart, KC gains possession at spot of recovery, which is the 37.

However, I could not find any documentation in the NFL rule book regarding onside kicks. Fred T Jane may be correct with the illegal procedure call. This would be the case in NCAA football, but I am not sure as to the NFL.

C. Triple play. Force outs stand, and the batter is called out immediately for use of the illegal bat. Runners would forced to advance by rule. If less than 2 outs, runners only advance to the required bases.

[B-Rich]

However, I could not find any documentation in the NFL rule book regarding onside kicks. Fred T Jane may be correct with the illegal procedure call. This would be the case in NCAA football, but I am not sure as to the NFL.

It's a new rule this year, one of several small changes. For on-side kicks, a team must have at least 4 players on one side of the ball. No more "loading up" on one side as in the past.

[Fred T. Jane]

However, I could not find any documentation in the NFL rule book regarding onside kicks. Fred T Jane may be correct with the illegal procedure call. This would be the case in NCAA football, but I am not sure as to the NFL.

C. Triple play. Force outs stand, and the batter is called out immediately for use of the illegal bat. Runners would forced to advance by rule. If less than 2 outs, runners only advance to the required bases.

If the NFL would just publish an official rules book, we'd know sure! What you said was what I had typed until I noticed he said 8 players was on the side of the kicker. The NFL Rules Digest (Caution: NFL.com does not like Firefox. Get ready for a Browser lockup if you click on it) doesn't cover it, so the best I could find is my copy of the LHSAA (Louisiana High School Athletic Association)rulebook, which seems to have the same rule as NCAA.

As for the third one, I think if there weren't three outs on the play, they wouldn't move, because Rule 6.06 (d) says that No advancement on the bases will be allowed... Of course, being a former Little League Ump, I never had to deal with that. Kinda hard to cork an aluminium bat...

[WJMorris3]

If the NFL would just publish an official rules book, we'd know sure!

They do, but I don't think the new one comes out till October. The 2005 one is available through Barnes and Noble.

In any case, to review...

Exhibit A: Kansas City rekicking from their own 25 yard line. Illegal formation.

Exhibit B: Goal. Ball is played at midfield.

Exhibit C: Bases empty, no outs, bottom of the second. Triple play.

Alright, time for three more.

Exhibit D: THE NFL

The New England Patriots line up for a play, first and 10 on their own 20. Before the snap, Deion Branch goes in motion, and motions forward about a second before the ball is snapped (he's still onside). Tom Brady goes back to pass. Dolphins defensive end Jason Taylor barrels into Brady, burying his shoulder into Brady's knee, sacking Brady at the Patriots' 13. Where should the ball be placed for the next snap?

Exhibit E: MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL

It's the bottom of the ninth in a game between the Braves and Mets. Chipper Jones is at the plate, with his Braves down 5-3. The bases are loaded and there are two outs. Jones crushes the ball into the left field bleachers for a home run. But on his trot around the bases, he misses first base. He is alerted of this midway between second and third, so he retouches second, touches first, and then resumes circling the bases, touching second, third, and home. Is this legal?

Exhibit F: THE NFL

In a clash between the Eagles and the Steelers, the Eagles have the ball, 4th and 3, at the Steelers' 26 yard line. Casey Hampton lines up directly over longsnapper Steve Bartrum on the field goal attempt, and blitzes right through on the snap, practically running over Bartrum. He can't quite get to the ball, though, and Akers converts the 43 yard field goal. By rule, where should the ball next be played from, and how?

[NJTank]

Exhibit D at the 15 1st and 15 false start Patriots.

Exhibit E Grand Slam by retouching 3rd and 2nd Chipper is allowed to touch first and resume his trot.

Exhibit F Eagles 30 yard line for a kickoff the Field GOal Counted

[slapshot]

D. Replay the down. Illegal motion (not false start) is nullified by defensive personal foul (quarterback sack directly at knee, new penalty this season).

E. Ball is dead once it leaves the field. Once Jones crosses second base, he can't go back and retouch it on the way back to first. If the ball was in play, he could go back.

F. If this were the NCAA, and Hampton touches Bartrum less than 1 second after the snap, the Eagles have the option of taking the field goal off the board and accepting the penalty, which would put them at 1st and 10 on the Steelers 13 (inside the 30, personal fouls are half-the-distance). I thought I remembered the NFL doing away with this penalty, in which case the field goal would stand, especially since there was no contact between Hampton and Bartrum.

[-kj]

Exhibit B: Goal.  Ball is played at midfield.

I believe there is one tenet to this one. The ball must have travelled one circumfrence length--ie, one time around on the ball. That's not a very far distance, but I believe that has to happen on every restart before the ball can be touched a second time by the same team.

[Tazz013]

D. Replay the down. Illegal motion (not false start) is nullified by defensive personal foul (quarterback sack directly at knee, new penalty this season).

I don't think personal fouls can be offset. There would be a five yard penalty against the Patriots and then a 15 yard penalty against the Dolphins, resulting in a first and ten at the 30 yard line.

Illegal motion may not even be called, it really depends how far forward he moves and how fast. "About a second" is all it takes for a player to be considered set.

[slapshot]

D. Replay the down. Illegal motion (not false start) is nullified by defensive personal foul (quarterback sack directly at knee, new penalty this season).

I don't think personal fouls can be offset. There would be a five yard penalty against the Patriots and then a 15 yard penalty against the Dolphins, resulting in a first and ten at the 30 yard line.

Illegal motion may not even be called, it really depends how far forward he moves and how fast. "About a second" is all it takes for a player to be considered set.

I think it depends on the personal foul. If there's a live ball penalty, and a dead ball personal foul, they would not offset. But offensive holding and a defensive facemask (PF) would offset.

Of course, double personal fouls like unsportsmanlike conducts would offset each other.

According to Will's description, it didn't look like Branch stopped after moving forward before the snap. It only said he went in motion, and then went forward for a second before the snap. It doesn't even sound like he stopped at all, which would definitely be an illegal motion penalty.

[seattlefan68]

On E, would it matter if he was out or not if the other runners had scored? Or do all the runs get taken away on that sort of play?

[paynomind]

I believe on E, the runners who properly circled the bases count. Which makes the score 6-3. with the braves winning, thereby rendering the dedermination of JOne's scoring useless. (But his run wouldnt count in the official scoring, but his 3 RBIs would.)

[slapshot]

I believe on E, the runners who properly circled the bases count. Which makes the score 6-3. with the braves winning, thereby rendering the dedermination of JOne's scoring useless. (But his run wouldnt count in the official scoring, but his 3 RBIs would.)

On E, the final score is 5-3. No runs may score on a play in which the batter/runner is retired at first base, either by force play or through appeal of a missed base. So even though it's obviously a home run, Jones missed first base, and because he is out on appeal, no runs score.

[FiddySicks]

F. If this were the NCAA, and Hampton touches Bartrum less than 1 second after the snap, the Eagles have the option of taking the field goal off the board and accepting the penalty, which would put them at 1st and 10 on the Steelers 13 (inside the 30, personal fouls are half-the-distance). I thought I remembered the NFL doing away with this penalty, in which case the field goal would stand, especially since there was no contact between Hampton and Bartrum.

the NFL is the only league where the defender can barrel into the Long Snapper at his descretion (I think). Any other league you cannot touch the long snapper till his head is up.

And on the last statement, where the Mets have to appeal the base, dont they need the ball to do that? How is that possible if its a home run? And whatabout Mark McGwire's 62nd home run? He missed 1st but went back to touch it. Why did that count?

[Sec19Row53]

And on the last statement, where the Mets have to appeal the base, dont they need the ball to do that? How is that possible if its a home run? And whatabout Mark McGwire's 62nd home run? He missed 1st but went back to touch it. Why did that count?

To appeal, you'd have to get the umps to put a new ball in play. McGwire hadn't yet reached second base (nor touched it), so the point is moot.

[Tazz013]

E: Chipper Jones would be ruled out when he touches home plate. The runners that came across before him would be ruled safe, assuming they didn't miss a base on that play or any other play in the inning.

[WJMorris3]

Alright, class, here are the answers I came up with.

Exhibit D: Patriots ball, 1st and 10 on their own 35. Yes, there's an illegal motion, but we need to whistle Taylor for a personal foul for the sack of the quarterback. Now, normally, penalties offset, but there is an exception. If one penalty is a 5 yard penalty, and the other is a 15 yard penalty, then the 5 yard penalty is declined by rule, and the 15 yard penalty is enforced from the previous line of scrimmage.

Exhibit E: No, the play is not legal. However, if the Mets do not appeal, the umpires cannot call Jones out. To appeal, the Mets would have to get a new ball in play, and appeal at first base. If they appeal, Jones is out, and no runs score. The Mets win 5-3. But if they don't appeal, the Braves win 7-5.

Exhibit F: Either 1st and 10 at the 21, or the Eagles kick off at the 35. Charge the Steelers five yards for illegal formation, as by rule, a player may not line up directly over the center on a field goal formation. They may take the field goal off the board, or they may take the penalty on the ensuing kickoff.

[NJTank]

Typical put dresses on Qbs